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Anybody with a lathe?

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lihp
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PostPosted: 00:22 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Anybody with a lathe? Reply with quote
I need:

45mm long solid brass rod
4mm outside diameter
0.5mm 45deg chamfer both ends
22mm long threaded section m4 x 0.8

and

50mm long sold brass rod
4mm outside diameter
0.5mm 45deg chamfer both ends
22mm long threaded section m4 x 0.8

Obviously happy to pay beer tokens + material + postage

Anybody able to help me out?
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 06:11 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll have a dig about and see if we have any suitable material, probably a bit thin for the sort of stuff we tend to do.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 06:18 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Out of interest does it have to be particularly accurate? Because you can buy 4mm brass bar pretty cheap clicky, and with a hacksaw, a file, and a die you'd make what you're after pretty easily.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Anybody with a lathe? Reply with quote
lihp wrote:
I need:

45mm long solid brass rod
4mm outside diameter
0.5mm 45deg chamfer both ends
22mm long threaded section m4 x 0.8

and

50mm long sold brass rod
4mm outside diameter
0.5mm 45deg chamfer both ends
22mm long threaded section m4 x 0.8

Obviously happy to pay beer tokens + material + postage

Anybody able to help me out?


I can do it but are you sure about the 0.8 thread pitch? It's not in any of the metric standards.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes.

Pitch was measured with a thread pitch gauge. I will photograph it for clarity if it helps.

The manufacturer uses this thread on all their stuff that they sell in various lengths (apart from mine), so I'm assuming this is why it's non standard. If it was standard I could just do what c dug suggests, but obviously no die in that size.

Give me a pm with how much you want.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
Out of interest does it have to be particularly accurate? Because you can buy 4mm brass bar pretty cheap clicky, and with a hacksaw, a file, and a die you'd make what you're after pretty easily.


Indeed. The non standard thread pitch means I can't use a die to cut the thread
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Last edited by lihp on 10:38 - 30 Dec 2015; edited 1 time in total
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, didn't actually notice the thread!
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I assume the thread is 22mm from one end? Not much point having it in the middle but you gotta ask...
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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
I assume the thread is 22mm from one end? Not much point having it in the middle but you gotta ask...


That is correct

It replaces the posts on this

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/c6AAAOSwgyxWVx2Y/s-l300.jpg

This is made to fit 1 model of electric violin but is too short.

Their standard shoulder rests for acoustics use a foot fitting
https://www.thestringzone.co.uk/foot-for-kun-shoulder-rests

Though they screw into the plastic body in the exact same way, (ignore dimensions as they mount in very different ways). However, as you can see they sell them in different lengths, so I am assuming that this is why they use a non-standard thread pitch.
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Last edited by lihp on 10:24 - 30 Dec 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
lihp wrote:
Yes.

Pitch was measured with a thread pitch gauge. I will photograph it for clarity if it helps.


Yes check very carefully because you can buy M4 x 0.75mm dies for £5 a pop. It's very close to 0.8.

Also I'll need a mating part to fit it up to if you want a good class of fit. It's hard to single-point such a fine thread without leaving it either loose or tight unless you have something to offer it up to.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:

Also I'll need a mating part to fit it up to if you want a good class of fit. It's hard to single-point such a fine thread without leaving it either loose or tight unless you have something to offer it up to.


If I was to run a 0.75 threaded insert into the plastic that previously had a 0.8 insert, would it hold?

As you can see from the photo, it's not really a piece of precision engineering to start with.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are you sure that it's a Metric thread that you require?
The dimensions that you have stated sound more like a 5/32 Whitworth thread.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
Are you sure that it's a Metric thread that you require?
The dimensions that you have stated sound more like a 5/32 Whitworth thread.


It is possible I guess. Would be unusual, since the part is Canadian, designed specifically to fit something made by Yamaha in Japan. So although the dimensions seem correct, it seems too unusual for it to be imperial?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
Are you sure that it's a Metric thread that you require?
The dimensions that you have stated sound more like a 5/32 Whitworth thread.


The more I look, the more this may be correct. I'll check the pitch when I am home again.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
Are you sure that it's a Metric thread that you require?
The dimensions that you have stated sound more like a 5/32 Whitworth thread.


Very good call there the numbers do match up to 3 places. Best of all Tracy tools will sell you a die for 3 quid.

Should have figured that as soon as he said it was for an instrument.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:


Very good call there the numbers do match up to 3 places. Best of all Tracy tools will sell you a die for 3 quid.

Should have figured that as soon as he said it was for an instrument.


Although historically musical instruments are often made in the same shops as bicycles?

What about a 3/16" cycle thread?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Pete. wrote:


Very good call there the numbers do match up to 3 places. Best of all Tracy tools will sell you a die for 3 quid.

Should have figured that as soon as he said it was for an instrument.


Although historically musical instruments are often made in the same shops as bicycles?

What about a 3/16" cycle thread?


Not 3/16 the OD is too big. 5/32" BSC has the same pitch as BSW but a 60-degree threadform instead of Whitworth's 55. Given the medium it's screwing into either would be a viable alternative. I can't see how you're going to measure an original piece's thread angle without an optical comparator anyway.

This will do the job:

https://www.tracytools.com/taps-and-dies/BSW-taps-dies/5-32-x-32-tpi-bsw

Or even a No8-32 UNC would make a good 'rescue' thread being just 0.2mm bigger diameter.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is the same site I found the 5/32 die.

If the thread matches up well with the whitworth thread pitch gauge I have at home, then I will go this route and assume it's imperial.

Although, I still think it's unusual, both are modern, and both items produced in countries that are using the metric system
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
lihp wrote:

Although, I still think it's unusual, both are modern, and both items produced in countries that are using the metric system


So are almost all bicycle transmission parts (made in Japan or Italy) but you should see the thread sizes they use. The pedal thread size dates back to the Wright Brothers and is found nowhere else (9/16 x 20tpi). Not even shimano have attempted to re-standardise them. True to form, the French at least tried to introduce an M14 fine pedal thread but gave up on it.

I'd imagine musical instrument makers are even more set in their ways.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:

Not 3/16 the OD is too big. 5/32" BSC has the same pitch as BSW but a 60-degree threadform instead of Whitworth's 55. Given the medium it's screwing into either would be a viable alternative. I can't see how you're going to measure an original piece's thread angle without an optical comparator anyway.

This will do the job:

https://www.tracytools.com/taps-and-dies/BSW-taps-dies/5-32-x-32-tpi-bsw

Or even a No8-32 UNC would make a good 'rescue' thread being just 0.2mm bigger diameter.

BSC does not have the same pitch as BSW, most (but not all BSC is 26 tpi) but you are correct about the 60 degree angle. Have you considered BSB (Brass) thread that is 55 degree and all are 26tpi?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ariel Badger wrote:

BSC does not have the same pitch as BSW, most (but not all BSC is 26 tpi) but you are correct about the 60 degree angle. Have you considered BSB (Brass) thread that is 55 degree and all are 26tpi?


5/32 BSC does Wal. It's pretty much a defunct thread but the 32 tpi does match whitworth.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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lihp
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just got home and checked it, the 5/32 is as predicted a much, much better fit on the thread pitch gauge.

Sorry Pete, well and thanks (raffles too). It appears to be 5/32 in the end.
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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 30 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
I'd imagine musical instrument makers are even more set in their ways.
Bordering on being ossified, truth be told.
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