30years of experience of litre bikes?

[stevo as b4]

Just a subject I though about the other day that I would find really interesting to know about first hand from those older people that have been there and done it.

Basically has anyone had continued experience of litre class sports bikes when they were current from say the late 80's to 2010>.

It would be nice to get the perspective and opinions of people other than Journo's that have had/ridden for example bikes from then to now and how they changed or felt back to back in comparison as they changed and developed over three decades? And as a final point do you after seeing so much change in that time think there is much left to achieve in the future, or has it pretty much all been done and perfected by 2015?

Say you had a 1987 FZR1000, a 93 EXUP, 98R1, 2003 R1, 08R1, and maybe a new Crossplane one for example. I wonder how they'd all stack up over the years and which feels like the biggest step forward? Or indeed were any of them a backwards step like when Suzuki went to the short stroke GSXR750 for example?

[wr6133]

I recently got to ride a GSXR1100k (1989) and a GSXR 1000 k1 back to back, so a 20-odd year gap.

The 1100 was a bit lairy, if you showed it some aggression you got the feeling it wanted to spit you off. There was fuck all refinement in terms of comfort, etc (though it wasn't particularly uncomfortable). That said it felt rewarding to ride.

The 1000 was a totally different experience. Refined, smooth, comfortable, I found myself riding it more aggressively (and beyond my ability). In comparison to the 11 it lulls you in to a false confidence and then lifts the front at 100mph which brings you hurtling back to reality!

I couldn't imagine the old 11 as a daily rider, I'd love to own one but I imagine it would become a chore if doing all weather serious mileage. The 1000 on the other hand if you don't ride like a cock (so rules me out) had the comfort that meant as well as being a loony toy could probably be used as a daily ride.

I rode both on roads so even at silly speeds neither bike was really being pushed, I also don't have the skill to push either bike hard it was the bikes pushing my ability. I suspect the kind of answers you are wanting would be best from people that have hammered them round tracks as that's where the technological advances are probably far more apparent/important.

[Rogerborg]

<Sits down and waits for Tef to write about other people's experiences that he heard down the pub>
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[redeem ouzzer]

I have a GSXR1100L which is my road bike / commuter of choice out of the four bikes in my shed. Comfortable, relaxed, loads of grunt, quality suspension. Handling is ok, but then i've had oil cooled GSXR'S for a long time so the shitty low speed steering and need for positive input is second nature. The only really scary thing on the 1100 is if you are naive enough to shut the throttle while turning, it stands up faster than Bodyguard's knob in a gay bar. The 750L i had was still my favourite though.
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[stevo as b4]

I know people like Fizzer thou have had newish and old school litre sports bikes, and someone on here it might have been Woo, went through the different generations of R1 once, and said what was good and bad about them.

I know there was also a B.C and A.D period before and after Fireblade and then a smaller significant jump with the 98 R1.

But generally have the bikes in this class just always got better overall through the years, is more power at the top end always better?

And have the current electronics and rider aids made for better or worse road bikes?

Is an out of the box bike that's 15-20bhp down on a WSB, a good thing for most people?

It's a lot of thoughts really, and not so sure why I'm interested having lost interest in modern machinery in this class.

I've only about 2hours experience on a CBR954RR to judge everything on, and I don't count other machines i've ridden briefly like the CBR1100XX as litre bikes, as they aren't sports bikes.

[woo]

Ive ridden nearly every single R1 from 00-14, not ridden the 2015 R1 yet.
This has been since 2005 when I bought my first 00 R1, so ive been on and owned many R1s in that time.
Some were to keep and some where to buy cheap in winter and sell for more in spring

The 00-01 R1 is still hands down with a firm suspension set up my favourite R1 out of all them as it ticks all the boxes such as
-aggressive torque everywhere in every gear from tick over to redline
-plenty of storage space under the seat for a 13mm 1.5 security chain and tools
-classic styling which still looks good to this day
-feels small light and agile like a 600cc
-very easy to self service and is simple as theres no fancy electronics to worry about, spark plugs can be changed quickly which is not the same on the 04-08 R1s as you have to drop the radiator forward and its fiddly if you have thick fingers like mine.
If you get one make sure you check the reg rec connector block for corrosion and treat it with dielectric grease or something so corrosion never happens which thus blows your reg rec
For me this is the best R1 to tour on as I found it more comfortable than the other models
Must say though speeds of 130mph plus on this bike worried me as I didn’t find the front as planted as I would like but speeds of 80mph were fine.

https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p613/wooizm/random/20150314_094333_zpsgamy1o5g.jpg



The 02-03 R1 was nice but a bit more calmer than the 00-01 R1, its fuel injected and still has the torque every where but just not as aggressive as the 00-01 R1
I never really got on with this model and I cant put my finger on why.
The standard suspension set up I liked as it was a lot firmer than the 00-01 R1 standard set up which I found to be too soft.
-has a decent amount of storage space for a 13mm security chain and tools with a squeeze
-again easy to work on
Great bike to ride nice and stable some prefer to have a steering damper but I hated the Ohlin’s steering damper and removed it and sold it as the bike felt more natural to me without it
Slow steering on this bike feels weird as in almost walking pace

https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p613/wooizm/random/004_zpstoibyxbz.jpg



The 04-06 R1 was the most beautiful bike at the time that I had ever owned and I loved the styling.
This bikes torque kicks in from 6krpm and is very strong to the redline whereas the older R1s torque kicked in from tick over.
This bike felt far more stable at high speeds such as 120mph+
The front was very planted and the standard suspension set up was a mix between soft and hard.
The twin exhausts look amazing and sound even better with twin akrapovics and a power commander helped sort out the lower rpm fueling which was offish.
There was a TPS recall so check this is changed as mine was buggered and mid bend the bike kept jerking and cut out, how I didn’t crash shows there really is a God.
-storage space was not great and required a lot of jiggling about trying to get a 13mm chain in every time plus a disc lock. Tools will never fit in with the chain.
-spark plug changes were a nightmare but done nevertheless as you have to drop the radiator down, but you don’t need to disconnect everything, I just found it a head ache.
This bike to me is when the R1s started becoming more track focused as most of this bikes best torque is in the higher rpms

https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p613/wooizm/random/IMAGE_014_zpslg7u9ovx.jpg



The 07-08 R1 again was the most beautiful bike I have ever seen and owned.
The standard suspension set up to me was perfect as it was nice and firm
This bike really is an ideal track bike and it seems that this was Yamahas intent with the fancy fly by wire stuff which I hated.
This bikes torque kicks in from 8k rpm and for road riding I hated this as I felt like I was on an over powered R6.
But when the torque kicks in the bike flys and is very stable, at 150mph it feels so firm and planted
Again storage space for a chain, disc lock and tools is just like the 04-06 R1 and is a battle every time to get it all in safely also without fouling the locking mechanism. I had to cut another key for this bike and the 04-06 R1 just so I didn’t damage the main key from problems unlocking the seat to get the chain out due to the chain fouling the lock mechanism from moving around when out and about.
Servicing this bike is identical to the 04-06 R1
Not forgetting that on all these R1s from 98-08 make sure you service and regularly check your exup valve and that it moves freely and no bolts are corroded, as my mates one on his 08 R1 become stuck so his bike was running very badly, had he come to me I would have diagnosed that and serviced it for him for free then he would not have had to pay £160 to the bike shop to sort.

https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p613/wooizm/random/5_zpsntmsjzu2.jpg



The 09-14 R1s I have never owned as its impossible for me to own such a visual disgusting looking bike.
It seems that this bike got slapped with the ugly stick in all directions.
However the torque from tick over is nothing like I have experienced before!
It is instant and mind blowing, this thing will wheelie at 100mph + in 3rd gear!
And once im on this bike I forget about how ugly I think it is as it had so much torque everywhere in every gear.
This bike does not have any decent storage space under the seat, you will be lucky to get a small disc lock under there.
I have never serviced this bike so I cant comment on that


This is just a quickish review of the 00-2014 R1s that I have either owned or ridden over 10 years

In all honesty I prefer the GSXR 1000 k5/k6 as to me this bike fitted me perfectly

https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p613/wooizm/random/20150810_152720_zpsb4ofefn8.jpg

Ive sold the GSXR and now im on a Honda MSX 125 which is a complete change as ive changed, ive just completed the first service which required cleaning the oil spinner and changing 1 litre of oil which the shop wanted £120 to do when the parts costs me £20 so what the hell am I paying £100 for.

https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p613/wooizm/random/20151215_175302_zpsr5cangew.jpg

Ive learnt everything from trail and error on these bikes from riding to servicing (youtube is a great teacher when it comes to servicing your own bike)
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[Enduro Numpty]

My first litre bike was a Suzuki GS1000 in 1979. 90BHP, double cradle tubular frame with twin shocks. At the time it was one of the quickest bikes around and by the standards of the day handled ok.
Fast forward to 1984 and I got a GPz900R - not a litre bike but way better than anything that had come before in terms of speed, power, handling and brakes. A real game changer! Next I had a ZX10 (the 1987 version). True 160mph performance and a bike that would cruise all day at an indicated 150mph with a passenger and 3 weeks worth of touring gear.

Fast forward to 2016. In my shed I have a Yamaha FJR1300, again not strictly a litre bike but a bike of incredible quality in every respect and arguably the best all round bike I've ever owned. Also in the shed is a 2012 Fireblade. I had a few years off road bikes, concentrating on off road racing. The FJR was my reintroduction and while I love it I thought the time was right to get a Fireblade. I lusted after the original in 1992 but a young family ruled it out. It is completely sublime and while maybe not the quantum leap that the GPz was back in the 80's it's a stunning bike that reminds me of exactly why I ride motorcycles.

Comparing bikes from different times is difficult, modern bikes are supremely reliable but generally hideously complicated at the same time. We all lust after the hottest sport bike and now 200bhp seems to be easily achievable though who is ever going to ever be able to use this on the road?
There are a few things that I don't like about modern bikes and it might just be because I'm an old git: who the fuck styles some of the shit in show rooms? They look to me that they've been flung together with some crap they found in a skip. No doubt they're great bikes to ride but they hurt my eyes.

The biggest difference I've noticed over the years is in the quality of tyres available. Tyres and the grip they offer, in my view, is the aspect of motorcycling that has made the greatest leap forward. That said, I still get shite mileage from them .

[chickenstrip]

Can't add much to the debate, as I haven't owned any sports bikes since my FZR1000EXUP. But since upgrading the suspension on my Fazer to R1 and R6 fare, what I can say is that modern suspension is far and away better than old stuff.
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[Fizzer Thou]

I must admit to having far more fun riding 1000cc bikes since 1992 than any other road bike that I can think of.The FZR-R is still in regular use as the bike to take Mrs.Fizzer out on and to keep the 5JJ R1 for those days when I want to hoon with others.

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Honda%20750/My%20bikes/2014-04-01182640_zpsfd062e41.jpg

But,having ridden a '15 big bang R1,even with all of the mods that I added to it,I would not change my 5JJ R1 for the later bike

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Bikes/2014-07-26113317_zps14d4b305.jpg

Without wanting to drone on about the other 1000cc sport bikes that I have ridden,they all do the same thing,which is to increase my adrenaline need every time I get to ride them.

Here is a quick list of some of the other 1000cc sport bikes I have ridden

MV Agusta F4S
Aprillia RSVR
Honda FireBlade '07
Suzuki TL1000R (with Ohlins rear shock)
Yamaha R1 '02, '09 and '15
Thunder Ace
ZX10R '05
GSXR1000K5

As has been said,the quality of tyres coming out nowadays far exceeds what I used to ride on back in the late '70s.The best that was available,before the companies were taken over,were Dunlop Red Arrows.Then came Metzeler CompK and then things took off.Now I can really push on with a sport/touring tyre (PR3) that would probably have won a proddie race back in the '80s if it had been available
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Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[jjdugen]

Let's see.
First 1000 was a CBX-6 in 1983. Spindly forks, exciting cornering, but oh that silky smooth engine.
An FZ Genisis in 1990. Another amazing engine, heavy and long, but definitely signs of what was to come.
AN FZR Exup 1998. Get passed the bulky looks, raise the rear a bit and this was a truly awesome beast, fastest I have been until the Blackbird came along.
A'Blade RR-X 1999. Simple, smooth fast, chuck the 17'' front wheel in and its still my favourite package of all time.
A TL 1000 engined Cagiva Raptor 2012. This should have been developed. Still the best TL1000 engined package around. No excess weight, Good Italian frame suspension, a truly great V twin that knocks the Honda and Ducati offerings into the weeds, if you can get passed the styling.
2014. A 1976 Laverda Jota. Money pit, evil, noisy.... But, what the hell, it's a Jota!
and a blade RR-T that has been heavily modified. R1 forks, Aprillia swinging arm, 190 rear wheel from a CBR1000, WP shock, full exhaust system... and loads more.

Had many early to late 1000's in the workshop, all needed a 'test ride' of course.

Its quite enough to say that the later models are sublimely competent, just about as good as it gets. The 'but' is when they are working properly. I spend far more time tracking down failed / failing sensors these days than actually spannering.
It may be subjective, but I find the very latest 1000's with all the emission stuff on them to feel, sort of... hollow, hard to describe, but I know they are running as lean as they can and I can feel it.
The 90's sport bikes can be made to handle and go just as well (for road use) for pennies these days, they can even be spruced up to look the part too.
The later 'blades, though potent, seem to lose something along the way. I can't quite commit to trusting Yamaha gearboxes and the Suzukis, though probably well up there, always have a flimsy feel to them. Ducatis always sound like imminent self destruction is occurring (but do seem to have finally cracked the reliability thing), as do Truimphs, but they too have made some damn good, if heavy, motorcycles.
But, basically, you've never had so much choice of truly superb machinery. None are 'bad' just have their own way of doing things.
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The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
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[bladeblaster]

Not 30 years experience, just short of 20 years, but......

My first "Litre Class" bike was a 98 Fireblade. Truly the best bike I have ever owned.

Since selling it I had various 1000cc and + bikes, although not all sports bike. The next Litre sportsbike was a 2007 ZX10R, beautiful bike, but too fast for the road, I sold it and bought a 98 R1.

The 98 R1 reminded me a lot of my Blade I liked it a lot, it was more powerful than the blade, but IMO it wasn't massive leap everyone made it out to be in 98. No doubt it was a bit faster, and probably a bit sharper, but no where near the leap the Fireblade took in 92.

So anyway IMO 130 - 150BHP is more than enough, 180BHP is too much, and absolutely pointless for anyone other than very good track day riders.