How to buy a first bike?

[chupacabra]

Hello All,
Few month ago I did my full driving licence and now it’s time to buy a bigger bike than my Vespa.
I’m thinking of SV650s or Fazer FZ6. I have couple of questions regarding how to buy it and not regret it day after, because I did something wrong. If anyone can advise something I would really appreciate it. Some of the questions may sound stupid, but I prefer to ask rather than to be sorry later.
1. Does it make much difference if I buy it from a private person or a dealer? Which one is better?
2. Is it better to pay by cash or card?
3. Is there any other good place to look for a bike, besides eBay and Auto Trader? Which one is better?
4. What documents shall I get when buying a bike?
5. Are there any particular things that I should check before I pay for the bike?
6. Do I need to sign any agreement when buying it?
7. How can I check if the bike is not stolen or after serious accident, i.e. that it hasn't been written off by insurance company?
8. If I’m buying a motorbike from place like 200 miles away from me; once I buy it; how can I ride it home legally? Do I need to get an insurance for one day or will the insurance that I have for a scooter cover it?
9. Which bike is less likely to be stolen in London; FZ6 or SV650s?
10. Which one do you think is better for ridding in the city like London?

[orac]

that's an impressive list of question.
1. Is a subjective question. dealer you pay more but get a warranty. private is normally cheaper and will be fine if you don't rely on the bike and can afford to have it fixed or can fix it yourself if it goes wrong

2. credit card will charge you interest. cash can be used to haggle ie I have x amount here and can pay now. debit card = meh

3. bare in mind, if buy at a distance, there is always a chance that when you get there it will not be anything like the description. beyond that, they are about the same

4. you should at least get a v5. you want get any tax, that stays with the old owner. you may get other documents if it has thing like data tag or the likes

5. check all the bearing, if it warm when you get there ask why, you need to check how it start from cold and any noise it get when doing so. listen to it run. try and listen to it in every gear. check the chain and tyres, forks and rear shock for leakage and dampening and rear linkage bearings - I am sure there is more but you get the idea

6. you need to sign the V5, if you get finance then there will be that too. as with before anything like data tag, a change of owner will ned to signed sent off and possibly paid.

7. HPI check - google it

8. this is were my knowledge is a little thin - not sure how the tax works, but you can buy that online. scooter insurance wont cover it, but if you know you going to get a bike you can have the insurance changed for the day you plan to pick it up. or just hire a van seeing as you have a car licence

9. I avoid London like the plague - far too many people there

10. see 9
____________________
Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[chupacabra]

Thanks, that's very helpful

[Rogerborg]

1. Depends on your budget. Under about £3K, private. Above that, maybe dealer as the minimum £500 markup isn't such a huge part of the price. Do not assume that a dealer bike is any better than a private one - it may well be worse, being a lemon that's been traded in. Dealer "warranty" is only as good as the dealer chooses to provide, or that you force them to provide.

2. Pay at least £100 on a credit card if it's a dealer. Cash or bank transfer for private sale. Consider taking finance on a dealer bike if you get a lower price because of it - you can just pay it off straight away.

3. Owner forums. Gumtree. Most bad bikes are on Gumtree, but not all bikes on Gumtree are bad.

4. V5C/2 new keeper slip. Manual, previous MOTs, and ideally some sales documents. Write out a receipt and get the seller to sign it.

5. Same pre-ride checks that were covered in your CBT.

6. No need to sign anything. Technically the V5C, but that can be done online now.

7. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bikes/sell-my-bike - put the registration in here as though you were selling it, it should tell you about any write-off categories. Recent ones (up to many months old!) won't show though.

8. Get an insurance quote beforehand, buy insurance and VED online or by phone when you buy it. You can do it all on the spot. Be very wary of dealers telling you that a bike is "good to go". They lie for a living.

9. London geezers will nick anything.

10. Fireblade.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[talkToTheHat]

Dealers will be spendier. Some dealers will look after you, some are asshats. Expect to pay more from a dealer.

I've had one private sale bike that was tired and needed some work, nothing expensive but brakes seizing on at 40mph was a bit scary. Of course I knew the brake was not right, asked a local bike shop to sort it an they took my money and said it was done. It was at that point I stopped going to that bike shop.

First dealer bike was immaculate and maybe £200 more than a private sale one in similar condition. No problems with the bike except writing it off. Dealer knew value of private sale bikes and exactly what he was negotiating against.

Second dealer bike was an impulse buy. Saw bike outside dealer, stopped, had chat, was bundle of regret. Was easier to get dealer bike because needed 33bhp kit. Knew the name of the dealer from their race reputation so they must be good right? Loads of problems, including their complete inability to fit 33bhp kit correctly.

Third dealer bike wasn't a set of tyres more than any of the other bikes I looked at. I think I was buying at the wrong time of year, all the cheap private sale bikes had gone and the fantasy priced ones were left and i'd be forking out for tyres, chains or fork seals straight away. A few other bits of I'm not sure about them too. Dealer bike has done maybe 1200 miles in the last 6 weeks, i've cleaned up the brakes a bit and flushed the fluid for paranoia's sake, and had to call the dealer about the fork seals, which were sorted without quibble. This dealer is looking after me.

SV650S and FZ6 are very different bikes. Fazer has a more relaxed riding position, more go, more stop, more capable of doing luggage and pillion. SV is lighter, more aggressive riding position but less go, less stop, and less capable. SV has more of the fun to ride a small bike fast appeal and is likley a better pure toy bike, fazer will do it all and I would have something like that if I was in any kind of doubt over what I wanted.

I considered the FZ6 and FZS600 this time around, they're a barrel of laughs and much sharper than the bandit I eventually chose. Early FZ6 has a reputation for slightly agressive fuelling at low rpm and I found it a handful around town, preferring the FZS600, but I suspect everything I tried needed the cobwebs well and truly blowing away.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[Undinist]

I would buy privately from an older owner who uses the bike for summer fun, keeps it in a garage and cleans it a lot. Those sort of people don't tend to live in London. (And I would guess they are more likely to own the SV650 than the FZ.) Go to see the bike before you commit, get the owner talking and see how open and honest he is. If the bike is 200 miles away and on ebay, have a long chat with the owner on the phone and ask lots of questions. If he grumbles, forget it.

I would avoid London bikes which live on the street, are used for commuting and are owned by younger riders. They are more likely to lie, neglect the bike and try to conceal accident damage.

I know you didn't ask about parking, but don't keep the bike on the street, it will get knocked over frequently. Maybe save something in the budget for using a neighbour's yard or garden. Or find an old dear and do some DIY in exchange for fitting a ground lock in her drive. Get chatting with your neighbours, something will turn up.

Buy in winter when the prices are lower.

[Val]

1. Does it make much difference if I buy it from a private person or a dealer? Which one is better?

Define better? Private is always cheaper and you can find immaculate bike with low mileage. Dealers have mostly dodgy and/or expensive part-ex second hands. Dealears are good for new, pre-reg or almost new 1 year bikes. I think I have seen pre-reg SV650S for £4999. You have warranty from the dealer. If they sell you a lemon you have consumer rights the dealer to fix it or return your money. No consumer rights when you buy privately.

2. Is it better to pay by cash or card?

I have not seen any private seller that accepts cards do you? From dealer always use credit card. Credit card gives you extra protection if something goes south you can cancel the transaction. Debit card means the money has gone its like cash.

3. Is there any other good place to look for a bike, besides eBay and Auto Trader? Which one is better?

Ebay is The place. Autotrader is expensive. Gumtree is full of stolen or bangers or both.

4. What documents shall I get when buying a bike?

The seller will give you V5C section 10

5. Are there any particular things that I should check before I pay for the bike?

yes check that the VIN numbers on the frame and on the engine match the number in V5C. Check the MOT documents and make sure they match the data here: https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-status
6. Do I need to sign any agreement when buying it? No.

7. How can I check if the bike is not stolen or after serious accident, i.e. that it hasn't been written off by insurance company? HPI

8. If I’m buying a motorbike from place like 200 miles away from me; once I buy it; how can I ride it home legally? Do I need to get an insurance for one day or will the insurance that I have for a scooter cover it?

Ask the insurer you may have multibike. Most likely not. You need to tax it first. Than you need to insure it. You can do that online from your phone after you buy it and than ride it back.

9. Which bike is less likely to be stolen in London; FZ6 or SV650s?


FZ6 but I like it more

10. Which one do you think is better for ridding in the city like London?


FZ6 actually SV650s is better because it is a V twin engine and it has more low rpm torque. FZ6 is R6 high revs engine means not very good at slow speed. Having said that you can make it work, the control is in your wrist you just add more revs and do some clucth slipping if needed

Good luck!
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Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900

[bigup]

8. If I’m buying a motorbike from place like 200 miles away from me; once I buy it; how can I ride it home legally? Do I need to get an insurance for one day or will the insurance that I have for a scooter cover it?

worst case you can use a courier company to collect the bike, you need to weigh up the cost of travelling down, riding backup and the time vs getting it collected

could be an option

good luck!

[mrmistoffelee...]

Go to do CBT
Have cuppa in showroom whilst waiting to start CBT.
See bike
Like bike
Send jokey text to GF/MRS about buying bike
Massage ear after highly abusive phone call from GF/MRS
Do morning session of CBT
Have lunch
Think 'sod it, I'll buy it'
Buy bike
Send GF/MRS text saying bike purchased
Turn phone off
Do rest of CBT
Stop at florists on way home.

Yes, the idiotic approach as taken by myself

[adam277]

You should have someone that knows what they are doing coming with you. If not then don't spend too much money.

First bike I got was a lemon and the first car I got. Very valuable lesson but thankfully the bike only cost 800.
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Bikes: Previous Bikes: Piaggio x8 125: 2012/2013, YBR 125: 2013/2013 BMW R1150GS 2013/2017, Honda CBR600RR 2017/2017, Honda CB500 2018/2018, Suzuiki Address 110cc 2019/2020, BMW R1200GS 2021-2023
Current Bike: Honda CBF 125: current

[asta1]

Following on from the above post, do you think the instructor who did your test training would be willing to come along and have a look at bikes with you?
Chances are he has bought a few 2nd hand bikes before either for himself or for the school and will have at least some idea. I only ask because my instructor mentioned that he would be willing to give me a hand if I need it.

[chupacabra]

Thanks a lot everyone for all advice. That makes it much easier. Now I just need to find a good deal :up:

[iooi]

[stinkwheel]

I've bought lots of bikes.

Private sales all went the same way.

Arrange to meet up for a look. Grab mate who doesn't want to buy a bike and cadge a lift. Check bike over. Suss out seller for perceived degree of honesty. Decide I'm happy with it. Short dicker over price. Shake hands, hand over cash, sign V5.

In terms of insurance, I'm covered third party if the bike is already covered by a policy so I check they have an insurance policy still in force for it (they always have) so jump on bike and ride it home.

The mate is important. He stops you buying a dog because you have rose-tinted glasses on and drives the car home if you buy the bike.

These days, I'd probably HPI the bike before I go if I was serious about having it.

Bought three from a dealer. The first went pretty much like above, bikes were pre-registered, handed over cash, received keys.

Second dealer bike. Ordered brand new, unregistered bike. Had to take out insurance on chassis number and forward certificate to dealer so he could tax and register it. Waited two weeks for bike to be "ready". Was told it was. Told the guy who was having my old bike he could collect it. Went over to dealer to pick it up (3 hour train journey).

Arrived and dealer told me he hadn't actually got round to registering it yet so despite it being sat there plated up and ready, it wasn't legal to ride. How the fuck am I supposed to get home then? What am I supposed to ride now my bike's gone? Landed up riding around on a fucking horrible divvy 600 courtesy bike for a week.

Finally picked up new bike (a full month after I ordered it). Fast forward 18 months and the engine blew. Had waited four months and sent final letter before action before they started the warranty process with the manufacturer. Got bike back 6 months after it blew up.

Six months later landed up stranded 300 miles from home over new year looking for a wiring fault which had been caused when they ineptly fitted the immobiliser (cut a wire, decided not to use it, twisted it back together then wrapped it in masking tape).

Started doing my own servicing (after lubing up for dealer servicing for 2 years). Found tappet cover had never been removed, coolant was beyond spent and forks were full of stinking, emulsified suldge.

Third dealer. Bought a bike described as "pretty tidy for the year. No signs of crash damage". Turned out it was the morotcycle equivalent of a cut and shut that had been flipped.

Never buying a motorcycle off a dealer again.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[stinkwheel]

[Rogerborg]

[Val]

[stinkwheel]

[iooi]

[iooi]

[Val]

[stinkwheel]

[ZX-7R]

[iooi]

[iooi]