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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:25 - 24 Jan 2016 Post subject: Will China take over? |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:28 - 24 Jan 2016 Post subject: |
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Personally I'm seeing kowtowing to China from all sides at the moment, not just the UK. Most Hollywood blockbusters seem to bring China in at some point. The Martian had NASA being rescued by China, and look at this breakdown of the newest Transformers movie - https://youtu.be/Zz5vEfa7UvI?t=164I
Can't imagine that being the case 5 or 10 years ago!
I think, in terms of international standings, the only thing the UK has left is its legacy, which is currently pretty strong but give it a few more decades and we'll be nothing more than another European tourism destination for the increasing amount of wealthy Chinese. This is already happening actually - PM announces significant changes to visitor visas for Chinese tourists for the benefit of the British economy. And the Chinese are only more wealthy because that's where all the world trade is going. And, as economics dictates, for one entity to rise others have to fall! Interesting times ahead. |
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Sload |
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Sload World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:15 - 24 Jan 2016 Post subject: |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:16 - 24 Jan 2016 Post subject: |
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You called?
This sounds a lot like discussions about Japan in the 1980s. Then Japan imploded and has been shrinking ever since. They're onto their 3rd lost decade and their economy has been stuck in molasses since then.
Anyway if you can't see it China is playing a simple, deadly and super effective game against your economies. Waging economic war in fact.
A whole load of people can't actually see it and they are happy to keep buying rope. The rope of course is used to hang themselves. As any good hangman knows too short a rope and you strangle the hangee, too long and the head comes off. You've been buying rope for a LONG TIME.
What is this game? It's simply the monopoly model and that of looking to the long term. This is deadly against the short term western outlook.
Anybody who has played transport tycoon should understand this. The one that survives the longest is ultimately the winner. The government and people can simply run their industries (remember Jap crap? sound familiar) and be the last ones standing.
Take for instance steel. Tata has shed 1050 jobs recently and 2000 jobs in October.
Or Solar panels (something high tech) the German industry has suffered because of this.
In the end all your industry even the high end stuff will be stripped away and there will be very little left. There isn't exactly a whole load left now.
The infrastructure? Being purchased..
Knowledge and skills? Tsinghua university just beat MIT in engineering on some measures. On other measures it's 9th or 13th best engineering university in the world.
Right now China's economy is lunching itself, there are some fundamental differences though to the Japanese model. There are still 600-700 million rather poor people. They can build transformational infrastructure to bring the quality of their lives up to modern standards. Which further increases competitive advantage. The 8GW of solar (every quarter) and 22 nuclear plants under construction are testament to this. Therefore they can go turtle like Japan did without hitting the bridges to nowhere problem like Japan did. OTOH the US, UK? They borrow money to simply pay the day to day bills. This has no ultimate pay off. The transformational infrastructure potentially has pay off (it didn't always in Japan sometimes it did sometimes it didn't).
Add in command economy aspects where 1 child policy was ended for 49% of the population. Ability to simply shut things down like coal plants (reducing pollution 10% by turning on the nuclear power plants). Add in the can do attitude for instance Beijing is dry. Lets built 5000 miles of pipes spend £80bn on making Beijing less dry...
The debt problem is also less of an issue as Chinese buy houses in cash, I did... all my family did. It's funny when you bring suit cases of money and people's jaw's drop. AND all the factories, power plants, roads, railways will still exist even if the value on balance sheets vaporise.
Add in the long term outlook rather than short term profit outlook, nationalistic feelings (refugees for instance are punished yes punished) and it looks like a very strong hand China is playing.
It's also less take over... more get back to the position China has ALWAYS occupied as #1 since well forever. ____________________ Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:29 - 24 Jan 2016 Post subject: |
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As China approaches western standards, and as it's population starts to age, is going to run cripplingly short on cheap labour which fuels its boom. As that happens Western countries will start employing their own people doing more jobs like working in steel plants or making iPhones. China can indeed buy a British steel firm, but anyone can start up another steel firm.
Also remember it's not the Chinese that are responsible for most negative effects to Britain and other western countries, it's the MBA graduates at our own companies trying to make a quick buck, and who really are the best personification of knowing the price of everything and value of nothing.
People also tend to exaggerate China sub-consciously by saying "China", but meaning numerous Asian countries like China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand etc collectively. Clearly though they are not one unit. It would be like grouping North America and Western Europe, calling it collectively "America" and then saying "oooh isn't that America place powerful and producing a lot of stuff?".
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Chinapop.svg/800px-Chinapop.svg.png
Last edited by Im-a-Ridah on 16:37 - 24 Jan 2016; edited 1 time in total |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:31 - 24 Jan 2016 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
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RPM |
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RPM Nova Slayer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Omega |
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Omega Crazy Courier
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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WULFSTAN |
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WULFSTAN World Chat Champion
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:08 - 25 Jan 2016 Post subject: |
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Im-a-Ridah wrote: | WULFSTAN wrote: | Am sure in 300bc people said the same about cathage. China becoming the worlds dominant power isn't written in stone. Things that we can't predict will always happen. |
They aren't even trying to be the world's dominant power, and they couldn't be even if they wanted to. They want to control the area around China, and even that is a tough challenge considering their neighbours are Russia, Japan, India, South Korea and North Korea! People make the comparison with the US, but the US is only as powerful as it is because it has no threats at home. It's neighbours are Mexico and Canada, and has thousands of miles of ocean to the nearest powerful countries. |
To be honest I think the only region they'll be fighting over is the south China sea, which to me looks roughly the same as the USA/Gulf of Mexico arrangement.
It would certainly be interesting if things hotted up with Russia, though China is said to be very well on its way to exceeding Russia in terms of military size and tech so then they may just be the giants in the area - any confrontations would be small fry. A wise Xi Jin Ping would secure the borders pretty well anyway, I expect.
Look how much ocean is being claimed by the PPC . I doubt any of those little SE Asian countries would dare take on China really, you have to feel sorry for them.
https://www.bajiu.cn/files/img/datu/china.jpg |
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:17 - 25 Jan 2016 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: |
To be honest I think the only region they'll be fighting over is the south China sea, which to me looks roughly the same as the USA/Gulf of Mexico arrangement.
It would certainly be interesting if things hotted up with Russia, though China is said to be very well on its way to exceeding Russia in terms of military size and tech so then they may just be the giants in the area - any confrontations would be small fry. A wise Xi Jin Ping would secure the borders pretty well anyway, I expect.
Look how much ocean is being claimed by the PPC . I doubt any of those little SE Asian countries would dare take on China really, you have to feel sorry for them.
https://www.bajiu.cn/files/img/datu/china.jpg |
The other countries in SEA are very much arming up, particularly South Korea and Japan! |
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Sun Wukong |
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Sun Wukong World Chat Champion
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:22 - 02 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
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Not really related to China 'taking over the world' but I've just discovered of something interest...
On the 'economy' wikipedia page for every country there's a stat on the right hand side saying what percentage of the population is living below the poverty line. The poverty line in this case is defined as being the amount required to live a comfortable life in your own country.
So, for example, a poor person in the UK is still part of the top 5% on earth but that means nothing if they can't afford the cost of living at home, hence they would be in 'poverty' in their own country.
The ones I looked at for comparison:
Economy of China
Economy of the United States of America
Economy of the United Kingdom
China poverty: 5%
USA poverty: 14%
UK poverty: 15%
!!!
And totally beside the point but I do believe this is also a nice slap in the face for a certain wr1633 who, quite a while ago, was totally insistent on me being wrong when I said life in China seems relatively comfortable for most people even on a modest wage. |
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Sun Wukong |
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Sun Wukong World Chat Champion
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Posted: 05:34 - 03 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 10:29 - 03 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
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Yup.
Food and goods aren't too bad, you can live fairly thrifty if you're careful and lucky.
But paying someone else to do anything is crippling. Couple of hundred for a central heating boiler, couple of grand to fit it. If you want a few bricks thrown together, start thinking in terms of the price of a car.
Why is stuff cheap, but people expensive? Because <trigger warning> tax.
Gubmint man steals ~30% of what I earn straight out of my pocket every year. That directly increases the amount that I need to charge in order to be able to live on what I'm allowed to keep.
Same for Peter Plumber or Brian Brickie, they need to crank up their prices to compensate. So in essence I get to pay their tax out of my after-tax earnings. Oh, and remember to slap another 20% on top of the final bill, straight to the Exchequer.
If I pay you £100 for services, £17 of that gets stolen as VAT and £25 as income and NI. Enjoy the £58 that you're graciously allowed to keep. Or viewed another way, if you need £100 in your pocket, it costs me £156 out of mine.
The State is fastened on like a leech, ramping up costs and sucking away the incentive for anyone to actually do anything for anyone else. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 18:03 - 03 Feb 2016; edited 1 time in total |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Posted: 03:46 - 10 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: | Yup.
Food and goods aren't too bad, you can live fairly thrifty if you're careful and lucky.
But paying someone else to do anything is crippling. Couple of hundred for a central heating boiler, couple of grand to fit it. If you want a few bricks thrown together, start thinking in terms of the price of a car.
Why is stuff cheap, but people expensive? Because <trigger warning> tax.
Gubmint man steals ~30% of what I earn straight out of my pocket every year. That directly increases the amount that I need to charge in order to be able to live on what I'm allowed to keep.
Same for Peter Plumber or Brian Brickie, they need to crank up their prices to compensate. So in essence I get to pay their tax out of my after-tax earnings. Oh, and remember to slap another 20% on top of the final bill, straight to the Exchequer.
If I pay you £100 for services, £17 of that gets stolen as VAT and £25 as income and NI. Enjoy the £58 that you're graciously allowed to keep. Or viewed another way, if you need £100 in your pocket, it costs me £156 out of mine.
The State is fastened on like a leech, ramping up costs and sucking away the incentive for anyone to actually do anything for anyone else. |
Dont forget all those standards that all those services have to achieve though. So that boiler dousent explode, that cars brakes work and that wall the builder puts up stays up. Of course all that stuff is cheaper othjer places but you pay through the nose when it all turns to shit and theres no efective government enforcing standards. |
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 8 years, 70 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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