|
Author |
Message |
smegballs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
smegballs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Karma :
|
Posted: 04:23 - 10 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
Ribenapigeon wrote: | Dont forget all those standards that all those services have to achieve though. So that boiler dousent explode, that cars brakes work and that wall the builder puts up stays up. Of course all that stuff is cheaper othjer places but you pay through the nose when it all turns to shit and theres no efective government enforcing standards. |
Tbf just go down to Portugal and you get a first hand look. Sure there are plenty of supposed standards on the books, but no-one (especially rurally) puts them into practice. Admittedly the place is a bit of a shithole in places, a nice kind of shithole IMO, but people get by and its no so terrible.
If anything, given the way that lots of Portuguese grow their own veg, common even in the reasonable size towns, and keeping rabbits/poultry etc for meat is common (my friend needed her pig slaughtered and butchered: some local boys from the village came up and did it for her), I'd say that the Portuguese people are actually be a lot more resilient than British. Fixing/mending and making things yourself is still a thing over there, albeit in a somewhat pikey manner, and the skills are still around and being passed on in the general populace..... meanwhile over in the UK if our Just-In-Time lifestyle ever breaks down for whatever reason... we are proper fucked. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 10:55 - 10 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
smegballs wrote: | I'd say that the Portuguese people are actually be a lot more resilient than British. Fixing/mending and making things yourself is still a thing over there, albeit in a somewhat pikey manner, |
I think most poorer places are like this. People are forced to be hands-on and use common sense.
I remember working with some Polish lads, we got talking about my car which I'd recently written off thanks to snow and ice on the moorland of north Yorkshire. One of the lads casually told me he could fix the lot, knew about the electrics and mechanics too. The frame was bent in the crash so I doubt it could be fixed, but I trusted his confidence in the other bits he talked of. Or, at least, I admired his openness and willingness to have a go. You're right, that kind of attitude totally lacks in people over here. But I think it would come back pretty quick if we ended up mega poor. We're a 'pay someone else to do it' culture, but that would soon change if you simply can't pay any more.
I do wonder what caused it though. Older folk talk of the days when cars would come with a manual and you cold fix every problem yourself. But now it's all done by 'professionals'. I don't think we as a nation are to blame for our failings, it's more to do with the consumer culture that has crept upon us all, where everyone wants to sell everything to everyone else. Prime example is in this 'car fixing' scenario. People can do it themselves, but it just takes one company to step in and say that car maintenance is too hard and it needs to be done by some specially trained super duper professional. That's how it starts really. End result: Dumb society. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Sun Wukong |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Sun Wukong World Chat Champion
Joined: 02 Nov 2014 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
smegballs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
smegballs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Itchy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Itchy Super Spammer
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :
|
Posted: 22:06 - 12 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
Since when have you ever been poor in a developing country? ____________________ Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Itchy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Itchy Super Spammer
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Sun Wukong |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Sun Wukong World Chat Champion
Joined: 02 Nov 2014 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
smegballs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
smegballs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 15:45 - 14 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
smegballs wrote: | Lord Percy wrote: | There's a severe lack of everyday social hangout sorts of places in the UK. Unless you've got money to burn. |
I guess our climate plays a part in this to be honest. Like in countries that are generally warm/dry you can spend a lot of time outside which is generally either free or low priced.
Also the part of the UK you live in too. Down in the southwest I have dartmoor 15 mins drive in one direction and several beaches 15 mins in the other. I like going hiking and camping etc, which is all free. |
Oh I have god's county on my doorstep.
My point isn't about leisure and pastimes, it's about social places where you can go and hang out for cheap. I know you can just have your mates round your house or do things together outdoors like that, but the fact is there's nowhere really in town and city centres, or even local communities, where you can go and sit down, buy a drink or whatever, and have a good chinwag for a few pennies. It always costs an arm and leg, 'going out' is always a bank-account-consideration event.
It's not about climate either as I've seen it all in full swing in -20 Seoul and -25 Harbin! It's just cheaper for the average Joe to go and 'do stuff', as in, stuff that isn't just going for a stroll. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
smegballs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
smegballs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 20:50 - 14 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
Rogerborg wrote: | Lord Percy wrote: | sit down, buy a drink or whatever, and have a good chinwag for a few pennies [unlike in Abroad] |
Honest question, what's the cost of a coffee in Chongqing compared to the typical prole minimum wage? |
In cities there are cafes and coffee shops that cost pretty much the same as Starbucks over here. Western prices in China, basically. Only for westerners and the wealthy.
But in communities and the outskirts, and even nestled in lots of places in the busy central areas, you have things like this:
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10428030_10153625099118496_8781409333358799940_n.jpg?oh=69cedebaa8102944aa07a637d94a9f8c&oe=57354F40
Or at least you do in the region I was in (which pretty much includes Chongqing).
These were just ordinary blokes passing the day at a teahouse playing chess and... some other game with black and white pieces that I can't remember the name of. Behind me were several tables, some outdoor and some indoor, of people playing mahjong. The place was always busy; on nicer days there wouldn't even be any seats available. They'd always find room for us somehow. It was a pretty good social space really. None of that grumbling 'sort yourself out' attitude we get over here!
If I remember correctly, the price of a tea was 5 Yuan, plus there are big jugs of hot water dotted around the place so you can re-brew it as many times as you like (or until the flavour goes away). The games boards were free to use.
The minimum wage in Sichaun is 13.2/hour, so that tea is equivalent to £2.50 against the minimum wage over here.
I suppose it's fairly equal really, although there's the main difference in that you can refill the tea as much as you like so you can essentially spend that money then stay there for hours; that's what me and my mates did. It was certainly very good value for money. It's like paying £2.50 to while a few hours away socialising and playing games.
Still, it's interesting, now that I've looked into it, to see that the pricing is actually almost comparable to what we'd pay over here to go and do something similar. But we just don't have these kinds of places. Why's that? Too expensive to set up? Not a viable business model in the UK? Too many overheads? Too much tax (heh)? Or is it just our culture?
Either way, I wish there was more of it!
Also: Note that guy in the background asleep on his chair. You really can just rock up, buy a cheap thing of tea then quite literally sit back and relax for as long as you like. The whole thing is like nothing I've seen in any other part of the world. Seems like some new kind of 'social'ism ? |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:11 - 14 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
That is actually pretty interesting economics. I can only assume that the overheads are much lower than in the UK, and/or it's a money laundering front. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:29 - 14 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
I've just been trying to read up on other issues that might cause there to be more people going out and doing these sorts of things in China. I looked into income inequality, and tried to find a comparison between us and them for what percent of the population is on low/minimum wage, to see if there is just a larger amount of people who can willingly afford it.
I couldn't find much useful information but discovered 1/3 of China's wealth belongs to 1% of the population, so they have '1%' issues too (although I think part of their socialist model means more of the country's economic output is recirculated back into the state).
The only thing I can really conclude is that it's a cultural thing. I suppose it's one quite positive knock-on effect of Mao's communism, and all the 'one nation' propaganda that was churned out. Can't remember if I've already mentioned it in this thread but I'll never forget what my teacher said to the class - In China you think like this (or you're taught to): Country>State>Community>Family>Self. This may be part of the reason for why things are the way they are. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Itchy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Itchy Super Spammer
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Im-a-Ridah |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Karma :
|
Posted: 01:31 - 15 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
Lord Percy wrote: |
Totally agree with this.
There's a severe lack of everyday social hangout sorts of places in the UK. Unless you've got money to burn.
Roger's probably right when he says it's about taxation, bureaucracy and the likes. It's a double-edged problem. People can't afford the social areas on offer in this country, but the business owners can't afford to make their business more affordable for the average Joe.
Having said that... 'Pay as you feel' cafes are starting to pop up now. I suppose that's a start, and shows it can be done*.
*if your goods are recycled from supermarket and household leftovers... |
Illegal raves?
They say they feed everyone, but I bet they wouldn't be saying that if Nigel Farage turned up |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 09:31 - 15 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
Itchy wrote: | In Manchester there is something called Zerblat a cafe where all the food is free as is the coffee and the tea and WIFI. You pay per 1/4 of an hour. |
https://www.ziferblat.co.uk/
Ziferblat wrote: | Our doors are open to everyone. Each Ziferblat guest becomes a micro-tenant of the space, responsible for it and able to influence our culture.
You will be welcomed by the Ziferblat hosts and able to work with them to help create, supply and develop this concept. |
Are they open to people not wearing post-modern lumberjack shirts and listening to vinyl records on their battery powered turntable?
I ask because it appears that they operate a (literally) exclusive entry policy. Press buzzer, strike a pose to camera, get in if you meet their standards.
Price is 6p a minute ' / £3.60 an hour which is that magic ~1/2-of-minimum-wage level again. Note that it went up 20% in the year since it opened though.
How do the economics work?
wrote: | Volunteer with us?
We always need help around Ziferblat. For every hour you help us, you will receive 2 hours free back. |
Now, that's an interesting way of dodging taxes and the red tape and expenses of employing people, something of which I always approve.
This chap's a genius.
https://www.ziferblat.co.uk/images/ivan-meetin-ivan-meetin.png
But if ever there was a candidate for some anti-gentrification burn-down... ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Robby |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Robby Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
|
Posted: 11:16 - 15 Feb 2016 Post subject: |
|
|
Lord Percy wrote: | I wonder if it's possible to be barred from Ziferblat for taking the piss with the food/drink policy. |
They apparently have "rules", although one would suspect that they're more what you'd call guidelines.
Porkers and povs probably don't make it past the hipster filter at the front door.
Lord Percy wrote: | Whereas residential areas all over in China seemed to have little shops and places to go, with people hanging around outside etc. |
Maybe just a result of not having our obsession with zoning that separates residential, commercial and industrial.
https://img-games.lisisoft.com/img/1/5/1538-2-sim-city-3000.jpg
The counter-point to that convenience is that it's possible to actually get a good night's sleep in a purely residential zone, at least as long as it's inhabited by British 9-5 toil-units.
Add "diversity" to an area and you've got veranda barbeques setting flats on fire again and again, and world music booming cultural enrichment into your earballs at all hours of the day and night.
I know which scenario I prefer, and so do most people who choose to live in the leafy suburbs. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 8 years, 45 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
|
|
|