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Junior Doctors strike?

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syl
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 20 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much does it cost to train a doctor? Well, look how much the universities charge foreign students and then take a percentage off for profit. Probably take more off for volume too.

eg Bristol:

18,300 x2 years
33,900 x3 years

Total just under £140,000. True cost, maybe £100k at most.

And how about Scotland? Scotland has been a net exporter of doctors to England for over a hundred years. Should England be paying the Scots for each one they train?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 20 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11883575/Young-doctors-must-repay-debt-to-taxpayers-before-moving-abroad.html

"Training doctors is expensive. The NHS rightly invests heavily in those who will care for us and determine the health of the nation. At about £500,000 for a GP and a quarter of a million more for consultants, the costs aren’t remotely covered by the tuition fees they pay as undergraduates."

https://bma.org.uk/-/media/Files/Word%20files/News%20views%20analysis/pressbriefing_cost_of_training_doctors.docx

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2784318/The-doctors-exodus-They-cost-610-000-train-3-000-year-leaving-life-sun-Australia-New-Zealand.html
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 21 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9441885/Thousands-of-juniors-start-jobs-in-NHS-killing-season.html
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 00:57 - 21 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9441885/Thousands-of-juniors-start-jobs-in-NHS-killing-season.html
Is it the junior doctors that are to blame for that though?
Article wrote:
Surveys have shown that junior doctors are asked to carry out operations and procedures on patients which are beyond their capabilities and often have responsibility for large numbers of hospitals patients overnight when fewer senior staff are on duty.

It’s encouraging to see that trials in Bristol of week-long shadowing and additional teaching have reduced mistakes made by new doctors by 50 per cent.

mpd72 wrote:
I think of junior doctors as "Halfords or Kwik Fit" mechanics. Got qualifications but effing useless if you want quality care. Experience counts and my personal experience was that they were clueless.
For what its worth; my experience is generally quite the opposite. Junior doctors often seem to be a lot more open-minded and in many respects, argueably more "educated" in terms of recent research, changes in legislation/policy and treatment options compared to the more "experienced" doctors; but they don't always have the influence to really make an impact.

Without wanting to stereotype too much - quite often it seems the more "experienced" longterm/old-school crowd are quite set in their ways - you could say "preferred" treatments, be it drugs or otherwise tend to get dished out much quicker and easier. Its all well and good being quick to diagnose and "treat" something based on experience, but things change rapidly in healthcare and juniors doctors are often quite frankly a "breath of fresh air" in many ways.

Over-reliance on the knowledge and services of GP's and senior consultants is possibly a big problem in itself - there are lots of other services and staff with different approaches, options, knowledge and experience available - but unfortunately hierarchy still seems to dominate in much of the NHS and public opinion.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 21 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Matt- wrote:
Is it the junior doctors that are to blame for that though?

It's not blame, it's just the reality that you learn from mistakes.

Which is why having JDs here while they make their mistakes then watching them swan off to the antipodes once their powers are complete is the worst possible deal for the UK.

Given Junior doc's statement that he'd have picked a different career if jumping ship was penalised, I say, good, let's weed out the splitters at the earliest opportunity. Or are places on medical undergrad courses going unfilled?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 07:25 - 25 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't decide where to post this but thought it may suit this thread better. 'Muslim pulls a fast one
while secretly plotting to kill us yet again' just blends in with all the other examples. But this one... He's special

I know they are threatening to naff off to alternative employment. In some instances, they are more than welcome to.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/24/nhs-doctor-leaves-family-in-sheffield-to-join-isil-in-syria/

So the NHS treat ISIS by proxy now.
Marvellous. Thumbs Up
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Sload
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PostPosted: 07:43 - 25 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideology is dangerous stuff.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 25 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

TFA wrote:
Dr Abuanza reportedly combined shifts as a registrar with running an online clothing company selling kaftan dresses.

Can't fault his work ethic. I bet he didn't whinge about his hours.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 25 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

syl wrote:


And how about Scotland? Scotland has been a net exporter of doctors to England for over a hundred years. Should England be paying the Scots for each one they train?


We in England already so pay for them. As well as the benefits bad everything else they have.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 01 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tis mirror but meh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
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Sload
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PostPosted: 20:02 - 01 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep wrong one, was juggling.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 31 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Guardian wrote:
will commence with a “full withdrawal of labour” between 12 and 16 September


The language used here almost had me on the floor. I'll enjoy using that one in my next resignation. "Full withdrawal of labour". Laughing

Since I've been struggling to find data that doesn't vary wildly (I've seen anything from 22K to 70K), what's the full package for a JD? Is it more in the capital? 22K in Hull is ace. I wouldn't get out of bed for 22 in London.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 31 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It varies because there are junior doctors in all the different departments.

inb4 winter of discount tents.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 01 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
I'm amazed they're still here. I thought they were all going abroad.

Would you employ some bolshy tantrum merchant who demonstrably can't be bothered actually dealing with patients?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 01 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anybody see that poe faced fat bird on BBC breakfast todau attempting to defend the latest rebellion.
I have to say just looking at her made me feel a little ill, surely not what you'd want from a doctor?
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syl
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 01 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they've finally figured out that public sympathy doesn't matter. Look at the RMT. All that matters is that the public get angry with the government for not sorting it out (if they get angry with the doctors too, nevermind). They still haven't played their strongest card, which would be to withdraw labour overnight and at weekends. There are many who suggest they should have done it already as it will have by far the biggest effect (and best chance of forcing a resolution whilst also being easier for them in terms of lost pay).
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 01 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

syl wrote:
I think they've finally figured out that public sympathy doesn't matter. Look at the RMT. All that matters is that the public get angry with the government for not sorting it out (if they get angry with the doctors too, nevermind). They still haven't played their strongest card, which would be to withdraw labour overnight and at weekends. There are many who suggest they should have done it already as it will have by far the biggest effect (and best chance of forcing a resolution whilst also being easier for them in terms of lost pay).


No good getting angry at the tories when there's no alternative, the JD's are emboldening that far left wing politics has no place in this country anymore
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 01 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crowd funding to buy butt hurt junior doctors one way tickets to somewhere far away?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 01 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good on them. Thumbs Up
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