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Spark and fuel no start 125cc help please

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Range
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Spark and fuel no start 125cc help please Reply with quote

Hello people I am a new rider and having problems with my bike it's a 125cc. I can't get it to start, it's got new Cdi unit, coil and battery. I have cleaned the carb out. I am getting spark and fuel. When I start the bike electronically it will just crank but not fire. If I bump start it engine will run but not Rev, but when I put the clutch back in it dies. Any suggestions will be appreciated

Regards

Sam
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure you have rebuilt the carb correctly?

mixture screw setting?

airfilter connected etc?

what condition is the plug in an have you changed it?

Did you buy the bike broken, or has this just happened?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you done a plug chop?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Re: Spark and fuel no start 125cc help please Reply with quote

What bike?

Range wrote:
it's got new Cdi unit, coil and battery.

Why?

Range wrote:
I have cleaned the carb out.

How?

What else have you done to it? Go-faster exhaust? Cone air filter?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Re: Spark and fuel no start 125cc help please Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Why?


How?

What else have you done to it? Go-faster exhaust? Cone air filter?


Sensible again. I've warned you once....
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Range
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: 125cc Reply with quote

yh the carb is set properly. A new spark plug has been put in. The air filter is quite dirty and maybe that might need to be changed. I haven't done a plug chop on it because don't you have to have it starting to do it?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

<Borgmode-on>

WHAT DID YOU CHANGE BEFORE IT STOPPED WORKING

<Borgmode-off>
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Range
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The battery was not good on it so I changed the battery.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you bought a bike that didn't work?
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Range
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

No no it was working and I was riding it for a few days after I bought it. Does anyone know what to try then?
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 18:51 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range wrote:
No no it was working and I was riding it for a few days after I bought it. Does anyone know what to try then?


Try? Yup. You could try making sense! Or try buying another bike. Or try hiring a dance band and asking them to play "abide with me", but I'd settle for making sense.

"its a 125" - yes, that will probably be it. They all do that mate, have you tried a 124? They don't flow as nicely as a 123 of course.... Rolling Eyes

Start at the beginning.. one-two-fucking five! At least give us SOME idea what the hell you are talking about! Which one! You have narrowed it down to about half the fucking bikes on UK roads!

THEN, step by step... you bought it... have to give you credit there, unlike a lot of the miscellaneous random chavs we get on here asking random questions about one-two-fives, you at least have avoided sticking an errant 'R' in there.. so credit where its due... not a lot.. but a little.... you bought this one-two-five 'something'.. and it worked....

Then, we have to guess, it didn't.. cos you started fucking with it.. Battery, CDi, coil, and something about the carb...

Back up... what is it? WHEN did t stop working? How did t stop working? WHAT did you do next. Help us, help you, tell us the WHOLE story, step by step by step. We cat diagnose your problem by voodoo....

OK, well, we can - its fucked! But that probably don't help any-one fix it.. and that 'some-one' will be you.. all we can do is offer advice, ad at the minute, all we have is a LOT of 'random' and a small sigh of relief you didn't 'brought' it of some-one.
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

What bike is it?

Reset the carb to factory settings - mixture etc...

How dirty is the air filter - like black as a witches hat or just a bit dusty?

New battery or just charged the old one?

Is this a ped that someone has bodged to make it have 1000bhp?
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Range
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a white knuckle 125cc sport.

When I purchased the bike it would start with choke. After a 5-10 minute journey if turned off it would not start, after around 30 minutes it would fire again but sometimes I thought it was just luck.

So changed the battery as old one was tired. Same problem still. So next took the carb out, jetted it with carb cleaner making sure all passageways were clean. Replaced now it won't start at all.

Took spark plug out, it's got spark check against the block. From all the cranking I thought it might be flooded so throttle wide open and cranked it. A spray of petrol spurted out the spark plug hole saw thought to myself it must be getting fuel.

Checked compression by finger test. It blew my finger and sucked it in so thought that must be fine.

Next thought il bump start it. Put it in second went down a hill, pop the clutch the engine started, gave it some throttle with no response just a low thumping sound coming from the exhaust. Put the clutch back in the engine dies.

When started it would ride well bar the lumpy idle that sometimes used to occur.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 04 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the initial problem could have been a blocked vent to the tank causing fuel starvation. Your carb rebuild has made it worse, un-rebuild it.
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Sdrobo
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PostPosted: 01:25 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Elimination Reply with quote

Start by elimination smallest least expensive so on

Check all grounding points . I.e. kill switch , one on handlebar , stand

Check your float level as it sounds as tho you've fucked it up. If you've took plug out and it's spitting fuel out on a 125 its too much

Adjust float

But like the guys said your not helping yourself by describing your bike / problem

4 things spark fuel air compression . But you could say 5 as in being a you.

And just because you can see a spark is just not enough.

What color is it cos if it's weak it won't spark under compression

Anyway I have my own bike to sort but with yours could even be the coil.

One last thing a good way to start would have been to introduce yourself and start from the beginning sounds to me like there are too many little problems with the bike that have either been boged or just built up .

And you've jumped too quickly from one thing to the next . Like pull plug see spark so can't be that then dismiss it far too quick probably causing more issues as you do .start again take your time then come back
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 02:32 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range wrote:
It's a white knuckle 125cc sport.

WK aka Direct-Bikes. That narrows it down some. but not a lot.
I believe they are generic Chinky parts-bin specials, clad in CBR copy plastic, and early ones used the rotary gear-box pit-bike engine to cause lots of grazed knuckles... newer ones I think use the 'upright' pit motor based on the Suzuki GS125 copy engine.

Haynes Manual 4871 "Chinese (Tiwanese & Korean) 125cc Motorcycles - Four-stroke Single & Twin Cylinder Engines"

This would be a good start for £20, and identfy what the actual fuck you are fucking about with! Available i most good retailers, e-bay and even your local Halfords store.

Range wrote:
When I purchased the bike it would start with choke. After a 5-10 minute journey if turned off it would not start, after around 30 minutes it would fire again but sometimes I thought it was just luck.
So changed the battery as old one was tired. Same problem still.

Yes, well, most of these little engines use a 'self exited' ignition.. that is as long as the engine is turning it keeps making electric to make sparks.. they will run without any battery at all. Lights probably wont work... but the engine will.
So there was an errant call on your part, but the start of random fuckings where you don't really know what's what!

Before getting to the next random dabblng though
Range wrote:
bike it would start with choke. After a 5-10 minute journey if turned off it would not start,

Explain... Do you mean you started it up with choke 'on' then rode it for 10-14minutes with the choke STILL on? That wouldn't be good... the choke 'enriches' the fuel/air mixture... running with choke on would make it run rather poorly, and likely 'soot' the plug.. and after you switched 'off' t would be rather loath to start with a black plug, and lots of carbon possibly shorting the plug gap.
OR do you mean you turned the choke'on' to start, then 'off' to ride. Then when you stopped, you turned the choke on again, and it wouldn't start or would only start 'by chance'?
You should only need choke to start a cold engine, and the briefly. If the engine was still hot from your 10-15mn ride, when you went to re-start t, good chance that turning the choke on simply 'flooded' it.
Range wrote:
So next took the carb out, jetted it with carb cleaner

Jetted it? To where, Rio?! Hint DONT us 'Jargon', especially when ts clear you dont have a clue what it means! It does not help us make 'sense' of your random!
'Jetting'.. is the practce of changing the carburettor jet sizes, usually to alter the 'fuelling response' of the carburettor after making a change to the engines state of 'tune', for example fitting a free-flow exhaust that would tend to make the mixture 'weak'..
Range wrote:
So next took the carb out, ???????? it with carb cleaner making sure all passageways were clean. Replaced now it won't start at all.

Took the carb 'out'... really, where did you go, any-where nice? Did she put-out for you? Dear oh Dear....
You mean you took the carburettor 'off' perhaps, and then did, what? 'something' with carb cleaner...
DID you read the instructons on the can of carb-cleaner? 'Cos the last one I looked at says to spray it innto the air-filter box or mouth of the carb with the engine running.. hard to do that if the carb's out on a date!!!!
So did you actually take the carb off or did you merely take the air-filter off the end?
Did you take the carburettor actually 'apart' to see the jets ad clean them ad make sure the holes are clear, ad the float needle is seating etc?
And when you put t back on.. DID you happen by any wild stroke of luck think to use new gaskets, so t actually 'seals' to the engine again?
Range wrote:
Took spark plug out,

Finally, you do the very first fucking thing you should have done!
That haynes manual, BTW has a very nice page full of photo's of spark plugs for you to compare yours to, which gives a fantastic guide to what might be wrong with an engine.. but no. lets just 'random' with the spanners!
Range wrote:
it's got spark check against the block.,

That's helpful... but why n earth talk about changing CDi's and coils, IF you have thought to test for a spark, AND got one?!?!?!
So HAVE you replaced the CDi and coil or was that just a bluff?
Range wrote:
From all the cranking I thought it might be flooded so throttle wide open and cranked it. A spray of petrol spurted out the spark plug hole saw thought to myself it must be getting fuel.

Good Gawd! a 'Spray' of fuel!!! Really! If its got that much fuel in the pot I'd be amazed the thing even turned over! I have had del awful carbs with notoriously sticky choke plunger's and twin fuel taps, some-one, who shall remain nameless, has left 'one' switched on, to let the del-awful drip fuel into the cylinder over night that on removing the plug have given no more than a 'mist' out the plug hole... only thing I have ever seen 'spray' has bee a two-stroke drowned in a river!!!
If it genuinely 'sprayed' fuel out the plug hole, then yeah! It was slightly more than 'flooded'!!
Check your oil! t's probably half dluted with petrol!
Range wrote:
Checked compression by finger test. It blew my finger and sucked it in so thought that must be fine.

Almost a reasonable assumption this one....
Range wrote:
Next thought il bump start it.

Why?
Range wrote:
Put it in second went down a hill, pop the clutch the engine started

Now that's curious.... wouldn't start on the button, but did on a prolonged 'bump... there's a clue there, possibly....
Range wrote:
gave it some throttle with no response just a low thumping sound coming from the exhaust. Put the clutch back in the engine dies.

Eh?
So, you got the engine to catch.. it started to pull you along? But when you pulled the clutch in it stopped? Are you sure it actually caught?
Range wrote:
When started it would ride well bar the lumpy idle that sometimes used to occur.

This, I presume is before you started to fuck with spanners on it?

Has it ever been 'serviced'? Had a new spark-plug? Air-Filter? oil Change? Tappets Adjusted? Cam-Chain tensioner tightened? Chain adjusted, cleaned and lubed? Back brake adjusted? Tyre pressures checked?

This stuff is all the book I mentioned at the top.. and IF a bike's not running 'well' is where you SHOULD start! With the 'basics' NOT randomly diving in ripping bits to pieces 'Random' diagnostics likely to make more problems than you solve.

My advice. BUY THE BOOK, identify exactly what it is you are fucking with. THEN undo what you have fucked with so far, and put it back how it was, with NEW gaskets. Follow instructions n the book for 'routine maintenance' vis changing the plug, changing the oil, changing the air-filter and setting the tappets....

IF problems persists... take a deep breath, record exactly what you have done, without jargon, clearly, concisely, in order, and full sentences, and report back. We may be able to help.. but, if you want to work 'Random' stabbing wildly in the dark hoping to do 'something' to make problems go away.. well, you have been warned, and we will unlikely be able to offer any advice other than give up and give it to some-one who knows NOT to work 'Random', and pay them to fix t for you.
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Range
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PostPosted: 04:28 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

your a sarcastic little fucker arnt you. you seem knowledgable but also seem like a fuckin robot. next time your at the stores remember to buy some imagination.

i have never fucked with anything that did not need to be looked at, when i used to have it started i saw a leak coming from the carb hence the reason i took the carb OUT and reset the float height. float mechanism looked good and the needle seated fine. the carb was put back together fine, i have had it out again after to recheck it and all seems ok.

i have a new spark plug. last spark plug was tan coloured no sooty deposits.

i bumped it because it would not start on the button. when i popped the clutch the engine fired, but i could not accelerate, as it lost speed the engine seemed like it was dieing, putting the clutch back in to put into neutral killed the engine even if im rolling at speed.

As i said before it was a hard start when i got it but when it started it ran ok. now it just does not want to fire up but just crank.

why would i leave the choke on for a 10-14 minute while i am riding. or are you the only one who knows not to do this. only use choke when its cold.

when i say sprayed thats exacly what i mean, other wise i would use a different word.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 06:45 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 06:49 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, I can't believe he is really as ignorant or stupid to keep posting a bible worth of text every time someone asks a 125cc question.
He's got to be trolling.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 06:50 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range wrote:
your a sarcastic little fucker arnt you. you seem knowledgable but also seem like a fuckin robot. next time your at the stores remember to buy some imagination.

https://i.imgur.com/Xjt0nc0l.jpg

Range wrote:
i have never fucked with anything that did not need to be looked at, when i used to have it started i saw a leak coming from the carb hence the reason i took the carb OUT and reset the float height. float mechanism looked good and the needle seated fine. the carb was put back together fine, i have had it out again after to recheck it and all seems ok.

i have a new spark plug. last spark plug was tan coloured no sooty deposits.

i bumped it because it would not start on the button. when i popped the clutch the engine fired, but i could not accelerate, as it lost speed the engine seemed like it was dieing, putting the clutch back in to put into neutral killed the engine even if im rolling at speed.

As i said before it was a hard start when i got it but when it started it ran ok. now it just does not want to fire up but just crank.

why would i leave the choke on for a 10-14 minute while i am riding. or are you the only one who knows not to do this. only use choke when its cold.

when i say sprayed thats exacly what i mean, other wise i would use a different word.


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PostPosted: 07:01 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

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bubzy1000
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PostPosted: 07:42 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar problem with my tzr125 (although it is a 2 stroke) the main jet into the carb was blocked. This meant it would kinda run, but only with the choke out, and wouldn't idle at all, really boggy throttle response, just generally quite depressing.

Im definitely no expert, just my "2 cents" but i would check the carb again, take it apart, take the jets out and make sure they are clear, i had to use a very fine piece of steel wire to clear mine as the bike had been sitting for 9 years and the junk in there was solid. so a spray with a cleaner might not be enough.

good luck!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't mind Tef, he's got into the cooking sherry again.

I'd wonder why the battery was "tired". Was it not charging? Over-charging? Any dry cells, bulges, leaks?

That said, I would lean towards fuel. Are you sure the float isn't sticking in situ? Popped the float bowl off, checked it can be wiggled? Jets, definitely inspect for blockages, run a strand of thin copper wire from an electrical cable through if you're not completely sure.

If it's a slide carb, ensure that you've put the slide back in oriented correctly so that it can drop all the way down.

Did you do anything with the idle mixture screw? If so, how did you reset it? What brand is the carb?
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range wrote:
your a sarcastic little fucker arnt you.

Little? Shocked
Range wrote:
you seem knowledgable but also seem like a fuckin robot. next time your at the stores remember to buy some imagination

I have too much imagination. I look at a knackered old heap of old rust and imagine it a shiny, running motorbike.. that's when the trouble starts..
Range wrote:
i have never fucked with anything that did not need to be looked at,

Well, from the story so far, I would tend to agree... on the principle that it if it didn't need looking at... you fucked with it till it did!
Range wrote:
when i used to have it started i saw a leak coming from the carb hence the reason i took the carb OUT and reset the float height. float mechanism looked good and the needle seated fine. the carb was put back together fine, i have had it out again after to recheck it and all seems ok. ,

But a new revelation to add to the enigma of the coil and CDi we now have an over-flowing float bowl....
So, with your vast experience of random fuckings.... how exactly do you know it 'looks all-right'?
Did you measure the float height?
Do you know what the float height should be?
Hint; Buy the fucking book!
Did you check that the float floats?
Did you check that the float valve actually seals?
OR did you take it out, what, diner and a movie? Quick fumble in the back row of the Odeon, and... well, don't know what you are looking at or for, so it must look 'ok' slap it back together, and err,, gaskets? Nah! be fine. worked before... cant be this, so lets go look for something else to fuck with.
Range wrote:
i bumped it because it would not start on the button.,

Yeah. Well, if it'll crank it ought to start. These motors were designed to be kick-started; shouldn't take more than a couple of revs for them to start, if they are going to.. if they wont start on the button, all bumping is doing is giving you a lot of pushing to do.
And if it starts on a bump rather than the button, it' will be because you manage to get some extra cranking revs happening, which points to either a lack of compression - which you think you have got by thumb test, or a lack of vacuum... chief suspect for which is tappets, that should have been eliminated by following the routine maintenance procedure the book, before you began random fuckings;
BUT an over-flowing float bowl, that 'looks OK', but isn't, cos fuel is still flowing straight past the float-valve, up the main jet and down the inlet into the cylinder, in such quantity as to 'spray' out the plug hole, suggests other-wise.. would tend to sort of flood the fucking thing.. and a big long bump MIGHT just pump more excess fuel out the pot, faster than your 'looks OK' float valve is letting the stuff piss in there!

But hey! It's not my problem. Continue with your random fuckings as you see fit...
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 08:38 - 05 Feb 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
But hey! It's not my problem. Continue with your random fuckings as you see fit...


Teflon-Mike wrote:
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns.


Just sayin'

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