Germany will outlaw the internal combustion engine from 2030

[Vracktal]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/08/germanys-bundesrat-resolves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/#5ae72d3631d9

So, from 2030 onwards, german law will prohibit the use of internal combustion vehicles on the roads. And this isn't a proposal, it's signed into law. 100% definitely absolutely maybe happening.

14 years doesn't sound like a long time to completely reshape all vehicular infrastructure and most contemporary vehicle design across an entire nation. Wonder how this will turn out.
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2007 BMW R1200R: On road
2009 BMW G650X Challenge: On road
1975 Norton Commando 850: Off road, awaiting recommissioning

[Pigeon]

I've not read it, but surely its the banning of selling new vehicles with internal combustion engines.

They surely can't ban existing vehicles, classics etc


EDIT: I did click the link, but feck all happened.

EDIT2: It eventually loaded, and no, not new stuff. All stuff. Idiots.

[carpe_diem]

And as soon as the powers that be at BMW, Mercedes and VW say 'lol whut' this law will be put on the back burner.
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Currently riding: Suzuki EN125 | Previous rides: Vespa 125PX, Yamaha SR125

[Sload]

Or maybe........

They are confident that alternatives will be available and viable?
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Honda Varadero >> Triumph Speed Four >> Honda CBR1100xx

[jjdugen]

No Nurburgring!!!!! Mind you, I'll be a 100 (more likely dead) in 2030, better get some more laps in while I can....
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The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[Robby]

The article doesn't say that Germany will ban ICE vehicles, it says they have asked the commission to do so. Even if Germany were able to pass the law, they wouldn't be able to prevent other EU-registered vehicles from using German roads.

If the law is passed, then the things stopping us all from getting electric vehicles (cost, availability and infrastructure mostly) will stop being a problem.

I can see this going one of two ways, based on the two ways that public transport is pushed:
Scenario 1 - The big city approach. We want to get more people on public transport (or electric cars). We will make more public transport (or electric car infrastructure), make it cheaper/quicker/easier than driving and let people choose the easiest option.

Scenario 2 - The small town approach. We want to get more people on public transport (or electric cars). We will force companies to remove parking space for ICE cars, but not improve the alternatives.

I would like to buy an electric car and bike, but the performance, range, and running costs need to be the same or better than my current petrol car. 14 years is enough time to make that happen.

[Itchy]

[stinkwheel]

[stevo as b4]

Electric car range will improve as will the charging strategy, infrastructure and charging cycle times. Add to that maybe they will provide a government grant to people to have electric charing points fitted at home, in the work place and at all large supermarkets and retail parks etc.

Im sort of with Robby, in that if it's cost effective and economic to do then yeah I'd like an electric car and or bike for more frequent or daily use. But then say a 50% improvement in public transport facilities, capacity, speed and fair reasonable costs, would probably make me switch to that instead. The problem I see with electric transport is the service and haulage transport industry. Also utilities companies like civils, gas and electricity and communication industrys need vehicles that can run all night with Pto's and lighting and drilling equipment etc. I don't think you can replace diesel yet here, or for quarrying, mining and other really heavy duty applications.

I'd like to keep my small two stroke bikes and my old petrol car, as occasional classic vehicles that I could use for limited mileage a year or outside of city limits and rush hour traffic too.

[Rogerborg]

What Robby said, and pretty much the opposite of what Vracktal shrieked: the Bundesrat (think "House of Lords") has voted to baww to the EU about banning ICEs across the entire Empire. It's not legislation, it's not binding on anyone, anywhere, it's just a ecomentalist virtue signalling.

I wouldn't get too concerned just yet even if we renege on Brexit.

Also in 2030, ice age: https://astronomynow.com/2015/07/17/diminishing-solar-activity-may-bring-new-ice-age-by-2030/
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Polarbear]

I'd love to see what electric power they could put on a ship for main propulsion. The only ones now that work are diesel electric or will ships be exempt.

by 2020 shipping will be the biggest single emitter of air pollution in Europe, even surpassing the emissions from all land-based sources together

Back to sail, keel hauling and hanging from the yard arm methinks.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[mkjackary]

This will work out great for us, if it does happen and germany/EU do ban internal combustion engines, we (outside of EU) will be a perfect place for BMW Audi etc to move manufacturing too.

Saying that, I can't see it happening.

[stevo as b4]

Arnt some of the biggest ships and cruise liners powered by steam or gas turbine engines though already?

I didn't think cruise liners would use big cathedral two or four stroke diesels, as are they not too maintenance intensive and require crankcases cleaning out by hand etc, or is that just Bullshit from watching too much mighty ships?

Any big turbine powered vessel I would imagine could be configured to run a small nuclear reactor to power it, it's still a very widely available fuel source and it's compact too for the amount of fuel you need to carry vs the energy it produces. Also in cold sea water there should be no problems with keeping reactors cool.

The only real downside I see is if there's a collision between ships at sea or it runs aground etc.

[Rogerborg]

But then they couldn't dock in ecomentalist-overrun countries that eschew nuclear power, like Convict Island and... oh, Germoney.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[stevo as b4]

Fair point. But as we stand at the moment this world is fucked without a fair percentage of nuclear power, as we just don't have the resources to replace completely with renewable energy, and while there's still plenty of fossil fuel in the right places, it's just not economically viable to harvest due to how tiny the margins are in gas and oil production.

We could cover 50% of farm land in solar panels, half the coast line in hydro electric power systems, and get maybe 40% of the energy we need at best?

[Robby]

Renewables are improving all the time. Solar in particular has a lot of promising improvements in the pipeline that currently work in lab/small scale applications and could become cost effective with a bit of time and money. This is important because it reduces the land required, and also brings in investment to develop the next generation.

We could well be in a scenario where the next generation of nuclear power stations are overtaken by solar when they're ready to be turned on. Nuclear has very high whole-life costs.

Ships will keep burning oil for a good while, but they may go hybrid - part diesel, part solar array. Even if it reduces their emissions by 10% by 2030, it's significant.

As for the rare elements required for electric vehicles, new methods will be found. It may be that we keep the lithium batteries for things where very high energy density is needed, and opt for lower energy density for trucks and buses. Get the infrastructure right (induction chargers at bus stops or on lane 1 of the motorway) and the energy density is less important.

The main thing is that the system doesn't have to be perfect, and more uptake will make the technology improve faster.

[kerr]

The problem i have always had with the thought of electric vehicles is are they ever going to have enough range to be useable?
I mean battery technology hasn't advanced anywhere in christ knows how long, surely the only viable alternative is a renewable combustable fuel.
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aprilia 125 Af1 Futura >> Suzuki gsxr 600 srad >> J1 zx6r >> cbr 600rr >> Speed Triple

[Polarbear]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[nowhere.elysium]

[mkjackary]

[Vracktal]

[RhynoCZ]

[MCN]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]