Are recovery fees avoidable if a stolen bike is found?

Ribenapigeon · Super Spammer Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Karma :

A lot if bike thefts in Aberdeen at the moment so a lot of people getting hit with recovery and storage fees. Is there a way of avoiding this aych as stating when reporting the bike stolen that you will arrange recovery?

Wafer_Thin_Ham · Super Spammer Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Karma :

Not really since, the police are usually in cahoots with whichever recovery agency gives them money to put behind the bar at the Xmas party.

However you can sometimes get out of the charges by saying you didn't authorise said company to recover your motorcycle and in essence steal it back from them. Someone will be along in a bit with a bit more legal knowledge than me though.
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ZX-7R · Banned Joined: 24 Jan 2016 Karma :

MCN · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :

Wafer_Thin_Ham · Super Spammer Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Paddy will point out that he brass-necked his back.

Unfortunately, the case law in England and Wales (and which may be persuasive in a Scotch case) is that the fees are recoverable from the owner/keeper. Well, technically, the "charge" for recovering it isn't, but the "sum" for releasing it is, which has the same practical upshot.

See SERVICE MOTOR POLICIES AT LLOYDS v. CITY RECOVERY LIMITED [1997] EWCA Civ 2073 (9th July, 1997).

Personally I think that their Lordships split hairs in order willfully to misinterpreted the relevant Act simply because it was an insurer that brought the case rather than a vehicle owner. But the hairs were split, and here we are, dangling by the short and curly ones.
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Snod Blatter · Crazy Courier Joined: 21 Nov 2014 Karma :

Mine was recovered as a matter of course straight away, they didn't even consider asking and no special instructions would have ever been adhered to, instant recovery is the procedure. And then everyone at Leicestershire Police ignored the legislation and flat believed they are in the right to do so, nothing can make them see it differently.

So.. Good luck with that one.
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Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

The Court of Appeals ignored the legislation too, so why would Dibble believe otherwise?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Snod Blatter · Crazy Courier Joined: 21 Nov 2014 Karma :

No one at Leicestershire Police knew about the case law. What they did know, however, is that ACPO say they should charge, as do the Home Office. And that's nearly the law, right? Ain't nobody got time fo' reading the actual legislation, or knowing the important bits of case law.
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Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Almost nobody. Razz

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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

JP7 · World Chat Champion Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Karma :

This one comes up now and again. The issue I find is that once the bike is found the police are obliged to secure it against further theft. If they just ring you and tell you to come and get it, and leave it there, you'll soon be complaining at them if they haven't taken any steps to secure it and it disappears a second time.

Speaking as a cop, I once recovered a stolen off-road bike. I rang the owner three times and left messages while I sat with it, hoping he'd ring me back and come and fetch it. He didn't ring back, so after an hour I gave up and recovered it, after pushing it out of the middle of a field to reduce the recovery charge (more complicated recoveries are charged at a higher rate). The owner rang up the next day complaining that he'd been charged for recovery.

So from a Devil's advocate, rather unpopular policey-type perspective, my question would be how long is reasonable for a police officer to babysit someone's bike waiting for them to fetch it? And why should the owner not be responsible for the cost of recovering their property for them?

Pigeon · World Chat Champion Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Karma :

Ribenapigeon · Super Spammer Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Karma :

Ribenapigeon · Super Spammer Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Karma :

skatefreak · World Chat Champion Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Karma :

Here's a really wacky idea?

Hows about anyone charged with theft of a vehicle gets fined an additional £500-£1000 and then we put all that monies into a big old kitty and if someones bike gets nicked and the nobber isn't caught in a couple of days we take it out of the kitty?

Many aren't caught so the extortionate fine is going to have to cover a few recoveries as it should!

What is wrong with the law these days?

Its almost as if they cannot be arsed to even try anymore and its whatever goes...

In hind sight.
This may actually be to good an idea for the government to deal with.
God forbid they actually sort out the problems of the great unwashed (who fill their pockets) *sighs*.

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

I like skatefreak's idea, but would note that there's already a "victim surcharge" which gets added on to every fine, including, for example, bike thefts, as well as for speeding "offences", convictions for late VED payments or failure to notify change of keeper.

Consider:

"Mr Smith? Good news, we've found the rogue who robbed your house and recovered all your possessions. Yes, everything, including your mother's wedding ring. No, no, don't thank me, Mr Smith, just doing my job. You can come and pick it up any time, for the very reasonable fee of 15% of the market value. 24 karat gold, wasn't it?"

Or perhaps when we report a vehicle theft we should be asked to pay the recovery and release fees up front, so that the police and recovery firm aren't out of pocket? Thinking

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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

MCN · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :

Ribenapigeon · Super Spammer Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Karma :

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G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

Ribenapigeon · Super Spammer Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Karma :

JP7 · World Chat Champion Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Karma :

Having spent time chatting with the recovery drivers and the boss of one company, it seems a police recovery contract isn't the meal ticket that it sometimes appears to be. The police contracts cover recovery at collisions, seizure of uninsured vehicles and also recovery of stolen vehicles among other things. The agents have to jump through a lot of hoops to get and retain their contract. And if they come out to get some crap old uninsured car that the owner doesn't claim, they only get the scrap value of the car, which doesn't meet their costs.

Unfortunately people who have their vehicles nicked and recovered seem to get the poor deal. Anyone involved in a collision chucks the bill at their insurers. Anyone whose vehicle gets seized because they didn't have a licence or insurance to drive it rightly needs to pay to get it back... that's their own fault. But someone who has their vehicle nicked and hasn't claimed off their insurers yet isn't going to benefit from giving the bill to their insurers, unless they have to claim for damage. They have to pay a bill to get back something that shouldn't have been stolen in the first place.

In terms of fines, I wholeheartedly agree that the criminal who stole it should pay for the recovery of it. However, getting them to pay it is something else entirely. The government just scrapped the "Criminal Courts Charge" because it was judged to be applied unfairly, so what hope do we have for anything else?

To put it into perspective, a lad went through court at the end of last year for causing serious injury to two cops. He got a four-figure compensation bill (almost unheard of). So far, each of the cops has had a tenner. So that's going to be years and years... if he bothers paying all of it.

Snod Blatter · Crazy Courier Joined: 21 Nov 2014 Karma :

.Bishbash. · World Chat Champion Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Karma :

I had a similar scenario to Snod Blatter. Mine went straight to the pound and nothing came of the forensics.

When I questioned picking it up straight away to save me money, the plod got rather short with me and asked why I wouldn't want the forensics done on it and said it sounds dodgy if I didn't, so I thne felt he thought I had some part of my bike getting nicked Rolling Eyes

Knowing not much would come of it, I didn't want to waste time either. Result, I let them do what they needed to do but lost out on money and time as the conversiation was going round in circles and I was getting frustrated.

So, answer to the OP's question, yes you can pick the bike up straight away (if you get the chance to) and not to have the forensics done on it, it's your property after all. But, they have their procedures so will try to follow. I suppose you can look at it in the way that if you got assualted, you don't have to press charges.
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