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GN 125: a few questions on wiring

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crewzer
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 13 Apr 2016    Post subject: GN 125: a few questions on wiring Reply with quote

1) Does anyone have any info/diagrams on the wiring of the gear position indicator? My Haynes manual only covers the models prior to the gear indicator.

2) I'm going to need to crimp some broken wires, does anyone know the size of the wires, I can't find this in my manual, I suspect they're 0.75mm?

3) Does anyone know if a tacho wiring loom from a gn125h is suitable for a 2002 model? It's the only one I can find on ebay and they won't reply, I suspect it does.

I've tried googling all this but had no luck.

Thanks.
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 13 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

how much did you pay for the bike??

I hope it was cheap....
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 13 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mudcow007 wrote:
how much did you pay for the bike??

I hope it was cheap....

£410
It's got a lot minor issues, a broken tacho and some snapped wires being one of them. Not a difficult or expensive problem.

I had it running yesterday but I flooded it and flattened the battery. I've recharged the battery but I think the spark plug still needs drying/cleaning and then hopefully it'll be ok again.

It's getting frustrating but I've got faith in it and I don't feel I've been ripped off because I knew about the minor issues and the one major issue of it actually starting seems to be my fault.
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Holdawayt
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 13 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd start a new thread if I were you. 3 or 4 for the same bike just isn't enough.

Fix one problem at a time. Sort out the dodgy running, then change the oil, then investigate the wiring for the gear position indicator (you really don't need one of them).
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to replace all of my bikes bulbs with more energy efficient bulbs; led, halogen, xenon etc.
Will I need resistors for all these?
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

leds will require resistors

Osram nightbreaker bulbs are good for your headlight - if they fit?
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mudcow007 wrote:
leds will require resistors

Osram nightbreaker bulbs are good for your headlight - if they fit?

Thanks
How do I calculate what size resistors I need, please?
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also got a missing clutch lever safety wire. What do these do? and what should it be connected to?
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are replacing bulbs with LEDs for efficiency reasons you don't want resistors (assuming you are buying 12v LED bulbs which have resistors internally). Rather than waste heat in the bulb, you will just be wasting heat in resistors. I can never work out why people fit LED indies only to then fit massive energy wasting resistors to get them to flash properly.

To get the correct indicator flash rate just get an electronic flasher relay, these will flash at the right right irrespective of how much load is applied, for example my one work with 0.1-100W of load, unlike the old thermal-stylee flashers.
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
If you are replacing bulbs with LEDs for efficiency reasons you don't want resistors (assuming you are buying 12v LED bulbs which have resistors internally). Rather than waste heat in the bulb, you will just be wasting heat in resistors. I can never work out why people fit LED indies only to then fit massive energy wasting resistors to get them to flash properly.

To get the correct indicator flash rate just get an electronic flasher relay, these will flash at the right right irrespective of how much load is applied, for example my one work with 0.1-100W of load, unlike the old thermal-stylee flashers.

So if I use an led flasher I won't need resistors but does the led flasher create this resistance instead?
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 19 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

crewzer wrote:
So if I use an led flasher I won't need resistors but does the led flasher create this resistance instead?


No, basically a "standard" flasher is based on strips of metal (bimetallic strip) heating upand and moving as they expand to make/break contact and flash the lights. To get the right flash rate, the current flowing has to be within a pretty narrow range (too little current and they stay "on" without flashing, too much current and they flash too fast).

In an electronic flasher unit, the flashing comes from an electronic circuit that generates the on-off pulses. This electronic timing circuit means that the flash rate is independent of the current flowing through the flasher relay and as such will just as happily power LEDs or bulbs.

The flasher on mine isn't an "LED flasher" as such, it is just an "electronic flasher" which will power LEDs or bulbs. It could power LED indies, 21W bulb indies, 10W bulb indies etc etc and the flash rate would stay nice and steady because the bulb power isn't a factor in deciding the flash rate.

Back before the emergence of LED indies people would quite often have similar issues when they fitted the stubby 5W or 10W bulb indies onto a bike that had the standard 21W ones as stock.
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 19 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

crewzer wrote:
I've also got a missing clutch lever safety wire. What do these do? and what should it be connected to?


Do you mean a clutch switch?

Basically the clutch switch is a safety thing to stop you starting a bike that's in gear, pressing the starter will do bugger all without the clutch being held in

that make sense?

If yours is missing, you may find that its just been bypassed by twisting the wires together?
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 19 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mudcow007 wrote:
crewzer wrote:
I've also got a missing clutch lever safety wire. What do these do? and what should it be connected to?


Do you mean a clutch switch?

Basically the clutch switch is a safety thing to stop you starting a bike that's in gear, pressing the starter will do bugger all without the clutch being held in

that make sense?

If yours is missing, you may find that its just been bypassed by twisting the wires together?

Mines just been cut (not joined). I think I've had it running with and without the clutch in, I can't remember. Should I just leave it?
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 19 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
crewzer wrote:
So if I use an led flasher I won't need resistors but does the led flasher create this resistance instead?


No, basically a "standard" flasher is based on strips of metal (bimetallic strip) heating upand and moving as they expand to make/break contact and flash the lights. To get the right flash rate, the current flowing has to be within a pretty narrow range (too little current and they stay "on" without flashing, too much current and they flash too fast).

In an electronic flasher unit, the flashing comes from an electronic circuit that generates the on-off pulses. This electronic timing circuit means that the flash rate is independent of the current flowing through the flasher relay and as such will just as happily power LEDs or bulbs.
6
The flasher on mine isn't an "LED flasher" as such, it is just an "electronic flasher" which will power LEDs or bulbs. It could power LED indies, 21W bulb indies, 10W bulb indies etc etc and the flash rate would stay nice and steady because the bulb power isn't a factor in deciding the flash rate.

Back before the emergence of LED indies people would quite often have similar issues when they fitted the stubby 5W or 10W bulb indies onto a bike that had the standard 21W ones as stock.

Ok so apart from the flasher led bulbs will work fine and use less energy? Will led headlight, rear and speedo bulbs work on too?
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 19 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

crewzer wrote:

Ok so apart from the flasher led bulbs will work fine and use less energy? Will led headlight, rear and speedo bulbs work on too?


I've replaced my indies, pilot light and dash lights with LEDs and it was just a drop in replacement using LED bulbs into the stock bulb holders.

I wanted to do the rear too, but couldn't find a bulb I deemed satisfactory. I'd be careful with replacing the headlights, I've heard there are some OK LED headlights out there, but I haven't researched it enough to be able to say what is what.

Why do you want to "save energy" in the first place? Energy not burnt up by lights means more energy that your reg/rec has to dissipate which may reduce its lifespan. In my case I wanted to save power on ancilliary bulbs to give me the headroom to upgrade my 35/45W headlight to the standard 55W one. So I still was using roughly the same power, just redistributing it to have less on small lights and a bigger headlight.
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 19 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
crewzer wrote:

Ok so apart from the flasher led bulbs will work fine and use less energy? Will led headlight, rear and speedo bulbs work on too?


I've replaced my indies, pilot light and dash lights with LEDs and it was just a drop in replacement using LED bulbs into the stock bulb holders.

I wanted to do the rear too, but couldn't find a bulb I deemed satisfactory. I'd be careful with replacing the headlights, I've heard there are some OK LED headlights out there, but I haven't researched it enough to be able to say what is what.

Why do you want to "save energy" in the first place? Energy not burnt up by lights means more energy that your reg/rec has to dissipate which may reduce its lifespan. In my case I wanted to save power on ancilliary bulbs to give me the headroom to upgrade my 35/45W headlight to the standard 55W one. So I still was using roughly the same power, just redistributing it to have less on small lights and a bigger headlight.

I just noticed you can reduce a lot wattage by going led which at the very least is easier on your battery. I thought might reduce the overall volt drop on the ignition side of things too? I know my headlights dim a little when I'm starting up so it would seem logical the spark would benefit from a little more share of the available power?
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 05:36 - 20 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

crewzer wrote:

I just noticed you can reduce a lot wattage by going led which at the very least is easier on your battery. I thought might reduce the overall volt drop on the ignition side of things too? I know my headlights dim a little when I'm starting up so it would seem logical the spark would benefit from a little more share of the available power?


No worries that is fine. You are right in thinking less current in the wires will lead to less voltage drop too. For example on my 250 the (now hardwired) reg/rec puts 14.4V into the battery at all times. But when you measure up at the headlight bulb terminals with the light on it is down to about 13.2V. The relationship between voltage and brightness is non-linear too, so a small drop in voltage causes a much bigger drop in headlight brightness.

Maybe look into fitting headlight relays to make sure you are getting max possible voltage at the lamp? Info and theory below....

https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 21 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going make a new tacho wiring loom with some multi core flex cable and crimps as they are not easy to find. It's relatively cheap to change the city, coil and starter, I've heard they build up resistance over time. I know all this is isn't going to make a vast improvement to performance but I fancy splashing a bit of my tax refund on doing it up. I'm putting t bars and a brat seat on it, removed the fenders, replacing a lot of chrome parts for black. I'm going for a stripped down chopperish look. But that's a different topic. I need to focus on actually getting it working first.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 21 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are in the mood for tarting how about:

New sparkplug cap.
Possible new HT lead (if able to remove from coil)
Re-assemble all HT connectors and boots using lots of nice silicone grease
Clean and silicone grease the spade connectors on the HT coil and CDI unit.

The insulation in the HT components especially does break down over time. When I first got my GN 250 on a misty day it the spark was firing thru the plug cap onto the rocker cover Shocked

I have done the whole siliconing up on my ignition system and it should improve wet-weather reliability. I drove through rain in portugal so heavy vis was down to 20 meters, yet the GN plugged on without missing a beat - I suspect sealing all the ignition connectors helped out a lot!
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crewzer
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 22 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
If you are in the mood for tarting how about:

New sparkplug cap.
Possible new HT lead (if able to remove from coil)
Re-assemble all HT connectors and boots using lots of nice silicone grease
Clean and silicone grease the spade connectors on the HT coil and CDI unit.

The insulation in the HT components especially does break down over time. When I first got my GN 250 on a misty day it the spark was firing thru the plug cap onto the rocker cover Shocked

I have done the whole siliconing up on my ignition system and it should improve wet-weather reliability. I drove through rain in portugal so heavy vis was down to 20 meters, yet the GN plugged on without missing a beat - I suspect sealing all the ignition connectors helped out a lot!

Yeah as I've said there is high resistance between the coil, lead and cap, not out of range but high and they're about £15 to replace. Today the main fuse wires which had been crimped fell off in my hand so I'm going to give all the electrics a going over incase I wiggled something else free or have high resistance. At the very least I'll improve it regardless of whether it gets my bike going.
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 22 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep im another silicone greaser, my bandit would misfire in the rain

lathered grease over everything an now its cool Thumbs Up
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