80's Honda CB 250 RS, a few questions...

[RhynoCZ]

Hello, there is a opportunity for me to obtain a '82 CB 250 RS (19kW, kickstart only) for what I find a reasonable sum of money. All I know about these is, that they are rare (here) and that the Deluxe version had an electric starter.

I used the search engine here, but found nothing. So, owners, any reviews would be appreciated. I just want something cheap, yet cool, to move around till I get a ZX10R or something from my to buy list.
I already had a look at CZ's and MZ's, but I can't find a cheap CZ (people ask way too much) and the novelty and romance of caring 2 stroke oil and doing pre-mix in the tank everytime you need to refill the tank with petrol gets annoying pretty soon enough. So, I decided I'm gonna go with a 4 stroke, unless I find a CZ I'd like to spend my money for.

Questions: Reliability and parts availability (Europe); real life MPG (not a concern nor a deal breaker, but it'd be nice to have a motorcycle with reasonable MPG for once); on road performance (it's quicker on paper than a MZ 151 and CZ175/477 and even CZ250/471, so I'm alright with that); What to look for when purchasing one (anything particular)?

Here it is, road legal, MOT, 60k (km) on the clock and all that for a reasonable sum of money (at least I think it is reasonable): £730

https://miimg.cz/m/i/914/914993_3.jpg?t=1460457822
https://miimg.cz/m/i/914/914993_8.jpg?t=1460457824
https://miimg.cz/m/i/914/914993_1.jpg?t=1460457822
https://miimg.cz/m/i/914/914993_6.jpg?t=1460457823
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[P.addy]

For £730 you can get a Bandit, whilst not too appealing, is miles ahead of that bike.

Might be cheap but not cool.

[Mudshark]

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=497106

[RhynoCZ]

[MarJay]

I have a mate who had one as a first bike. He still raves about it now.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[doggone]

I did have one in about 1983, I hope it isn't that one as someone stole it just after I sold it, and it was used in a robbery!
They are quite fast for a 250, they were popular here when you could ride 250cc on a Learner plate and these were faster than the CB250N superdream.
The engine needs careful attention to the balancer and camchain.
They are simple to work on yourself valves and such is a doddle.
Fairly sure there isn't a proper oil filter just a screen, so frequent changes are advisable.

[Robby]

I know them inside out. They're really good. Get it.

They need an oil change every 1000 miles. No filter, just a little screen that people forget to clean. Calipers can seize up, the frame likes to rust between the footpegs. The electric starter was always shit. They all leak a bit of oil around the rocker cover, your left boot will get dirty.

But, they're a lot of fun to ride, and dirt cheap to run. Fuel should be around 60mpg. Worth fitting a quick-drain valve to make oil changes easy.

[Silver_Fox]

Ride it to England when you're done and I'll buy it
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CBR600 F3 FV
CG125

[Snod Blatter]

The mileage/kilometrage is concerning, as is the respray and the very black engine. What is the previous owner's spannering skill like?

Is it the original engine still? How often has the oil been changed? Why is everything so suspiciously new and shiny?
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1994 CB250, 1984 CBX250RS-E, 1989 K100RS, 1995 TRX850, 2016 Z250SL

[RhynoCZ]

The owner says the motorcycle has been completely refurbished and painted 4 years ago. The only reason I ask about the reviews is, that it's 3 hours trip to get there and I don't know a thing about CB 250 RS motorcycles.

But people in Czech rep. don't park motorcycles outside, nor they ride all year long. So if we get a nice clean motorcycle, and ride it only during the summer, it will last nice long.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Snod Blatter]

Was there any engine work involved? As is usual for a trail bike engine thrust into road use, the oil delivery was not good enough to keep them going for very long. The camshaft runs in the head without bearings and can pick up, ruining the head. The main bearings are splash fed and can die any time after 20K miles, and the big end bearing can seize any time after 25K. The crank faults followed over into the CBX250RS, but they at least put bearings on the cams that time.. Shame they didn't sufficiently up the oil pressure too, cam and rocker wear a massive problem instead..

1000 mile oil changes were always recommended though modern oil may help, and any big noises from the engine should be viewed with huge suspicion. CDI boxes can also fail around the 50K mile mark, but easy enough to replace thanks to the Internet. Otherwise, lovely motor
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1994 CB250, 1984 CBX250RS-E, 1989 K100RS, 1995 TRX850, 2016 Z250SL

[RhynoCZ]

I don't know a thing yet, I just wanted to get a general review of the motorcycle, as I've never seen one, in person, before. So, not every Honda motorcycle has got a smooth, indestructible engine, I suppose.

EDIT: I had a chance to work on a '84? XR 250 (twin carburetor) and that engine was in a rather crap condition. The camshaft and all the rockers had to be resurfaced (not a problem, not expensive). So, if this would be the problem, then I don't mind it. Although, as you say there's no oil filter, the metal bits from the shaft and rockers have got to go somewhere, right? Thinking of it, I don't recall seeing the oil filter in the XR engine either.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Snod Blatter]

Honda really struggled to make a fast yet reliable single cylinder engine for a very long time, I think in the world of road bikes it took them until the 26BHP CBR250 just a few years ago to get it right! And even then who knows what mileage they manage, it's still too soon to tell.

You are looking at the ancient XL series of engines with this RS, the XR was later (and the basis for the CBX250RS which was supposed to replace this model). They did have an oil filter, and were supposed to be tougher all round. But as you found out, even they are not so tough. I don't think these engines suffer particularly from cam and rocker wear, the reports from the time mostly talk about seizing without warning or knocking mains. Or trashing the surface in the head that the cam runs in if oil changes were neglected. But the seizing seemed to be random, some were quickly killed and others went on and on. Always rare for them to make it past 50K miles though.

As always with anything of an appreciable vintage, the Used Motorcycle Guide will likely be of interest. Check it out.
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1994 CB250, 1984 CBX250RS-E, 1989 K100RS, 1995 TRX850, 2016 Z250SL

[Robby]

The mesh filter does a good enough job of picking up bits of metal. It isn't like the engine sheds loads of scrapings all the time, the mesh would have a handful of tiny slivers on it after 5000 miles. The trouble creeps in when the mesh hasn't been cleaned for a decade. This does happen, because you have to take the RHS crankcase cover off to clean it.

I would still say the engines are tough. They keep going as long as they have oil in, and going by the manual you an use just about any oil for the UK (or Czech) climate, including straight weight SAE30. They also give about the same performance with what should be catastrophic issues, like an exhaust mostly made of holes, or a massive split in the inlet rubber.

The bottom end is tough. I'm not sure about what Snod said about the mains running on splash lubrication, pretty sure the entire bottom end is pressure fed. I have a set of crankcases in the garage, but I can't be bothered to look.

But this is largely academic. If it runs alright now, it's fine. The bike is 35 years old, if it was going to pop it would have done so 30 years ago. Get it, keep it forever, you'll never find anything quite like it to ride. 50 feels like 80.

[RhynoCZ]

Just got flu, so not gonna travel 3h away to have a look at the bike, but if it's still for sale once I'm alright, I'm getting it.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[M.C]

Came across one of these today. It was sat in a car park, underneath a block of flats, tyres flat. I guess you could call it an urban barn find

[winz]

Fun little bikes. Had a go on this last summer. Couldn't really pull me up a hill though.

He bought it for £300 in a bit of a state and did this to it...

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11230915_10153465743819374_2774012250421996938_n.jpg?oh=26dd34e5d91c7b155b81f170eb1166e3&oe=579F48EA
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Current Bikes: BMW K1200S
Previous: Honda CBR929RR, Honda CBR1100XX, Honda CB600F

[WD Forte]

I had one years ago and stuck an XL500 lump in it
for a larf
Cor ! It didn't arf go

It's got 36,000 miles on the clocks
what you have to ask is was that 36000 well maintained or abused miles?
Fresh paint means little" Chrome don't get you home" and all that.

I've seen a lot of 'total refurb' bikes where the engine only got an external
tart up so with that in mind, ask for proof the engines actually been 'refurbed'
and not just given the oily rag treatment.

Check the lower frame and swinging arm for the usual Honda rot,
ditto fork sliders for pitting and the other checks you'd do on any old bike.
Feel under the tank for rust too

If they come out with "it's a classic innit mate?" tell them it may have been
once, but when they sprayed it shit brown that's no longer the case.
ask to see/hear it start from cold and get it good and hot whilst watching sniffing and listening for smoke
and rattles.

caveat emptor and all that
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bikers smell of wee

[spnorm]

It was a great little bike to ride and much more fun than the twins of that era, especially the awful 250 Superdream.

As mentioned above, oil changes are vital, otherwise they wreck the camshaft and cylinder head.

I had an XBR500 for a while thinking it would be like a big CB250RS to ride, but it wasn't as much fun and it took Honda 6 weeks to mend the engine after it blew the crankshaft

[spottedtango]

I had one for a brief while, it was resprayed in white. Was one of the first engines I took apart

Potential problems

the spark plug hole likes to strip its threads, engine bolts like to strip threads too
Cracks can develop near the spark plug hole on the inside as the spark plug hole is very close to the 4 valves.
Mine's developed an alternator fault,
if you see the previous owner has used any sort ofsilicone sealant whip out the oil strainer as bits of silicone will easily block the strainer leading to potential engine seizure .
accelerator pump rubbers in the carb can perish

It was great on fuel 75mpg and felt like a souped up 125 to ride as it was so light, I think mines was fitted with an updated light at the front as it light up the road.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Never had one, but knew someone who had one as a first big bike many years ago and she loved it.

However I also remember a guy at a place I used to work who used one for commuting. He had raced bikes and was quite handy at riding. Remember once following him down to the road to work and he got to the building, locked the back wheel and turned the bike side ways and then rode into the space in front of the office, feet up the whole way. And he wasn't much slower in snow either.

All the best

Katy
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Owned a 1980 one for 9 years and didn't have any major problems. i.e It never let me down.

I upgraded the front springs and rear shocks which resulted in superb handling.
I also badgered motad exhausts and they made a short run of the original downpipes and mufflers.
I won't post a photo as it will make people jizz.

Thrashed it mercilessly and serviced it religiously.

If it were a car I'd say it's like a MKII Ford Escort.
It's greater than the sum of its parts.
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Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project

[Kal]

If it was over here for that kind of money I'd be having a look.

Its not original as noted above but looks fairly tidy. The joy is much like CZ's there isnt much to go wrong and they are designed for someone with some spannering ability to work on when they do.
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S