What Off-Road Bike For Me?

[Suntan Sid]

Within the next 18 months I'd like to purchase an off road bike.
I would be using it purely off road, on fast undulating gravel and hard pack tracks, it won't be based in the UK so the chances of it seeing rain or mud are, virtually, none existant.

A bit of background:-

I did have a DRZ400E for this activity, in the same location, which I enjoyed riding,
The DRZ weighed in at 132kg, I believe this is considered to be a bit lardy, I never had a problem riding it, but then again I never fell off it so I've never had to pick it up or extract myself from underneath it.

I also had a Gas Gas 280 TXT trials bike at the same time as the DRZ, that was fun but not suited to the terrain I was using it on.

In the UK I currently have an old XL125R that I've used on a couple of green lanes in the UK. The XL surprised me with how well it coped with some nasty rocks and stuff, stuff that I thought would have been more suited the Gas Gas.

I'm no off road god, I dabble and just like to pootling around.
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So, in general, what's should I be looking for in the, nearly new, second hand market, that's going to suit fast gravel track stuff?

I'd like something with a fair amount of get up and go.

Something that doesn't require tearing apart every other weekend, to keep it running.

Something that's not going to leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

I guess having something I could register for the road, if needed, would be an advantage, but it's not a deal breaker.

I've had 2 stroke road bikes but never an off roader, I'm not sure I want a peaky engine that requires playing tunes on the gearbox to keep it moving.
So I guess I'm looking at a 4 stroke, in the 250 - 400 range!
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[thx1138]

Try a Honda CRF230
https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/honda/2013-honda-crf230f-ar151925.html

[Snowdonia Rider]

I looked at all sorts and ended up with an EXC as they're just so hard to beat.
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[stevo as b4]

If a tidy WR250F was in budget, it'd be at the top of my list. Its the easiest and most flattering off road bike I've ever ridden for mixed use, and though it's years since I did any trials or MX riding I liked the WR thumper and for playing on everything from MX tracks to muddy forest trails it was really decent, easy to start too! If the 450 is as good as this then I'd consider that too if you needed more motor.

A CRM250 is a bike for general off roading I'd like to try, but they seem to have alot of parts discontinued and some bits are really pricey too. Spares prices and waiting for parts is my main issue with going Orange too.

Don't listen to me though as I have little experience of many modern enduro or MX bikes. The newest bike I've ever ridden is a 2004 KX250, I'm sure some stuff has changed alot since then.

[Suntan Sid]

Thanks for all the replies!

The only comparison I can make with any of the bikes mentioned is to my old DRZ400E, if you've an idea how they would compare, to give me an idea, I'd be grateful!
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"Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!"

[thx1138]

[Suntan Sid]

I've just watched the two videos.

The trails you're riding there are nothing like what I'll be riding on.
What I'll be up against are basically gravel mountain roads with no real obstacles, other than the odd gnarly corner amd random snakes on the track.
To give you an idea I could get the DRZ flat out in top on a few stretches.

Would this influence the choice of bike?
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[stevo as b4]

Is it open and fast enough for something like an XR650R or a European alternative? If the weight of the DRZ was not an issue and you were using all the power alot of the time, then a 600-650 might be the way to go?

I can't fully picture the trails your describing riding on, though it sounds more like the American fast forest fire roads, and when you see you tube videos of people riding them, they show 100mph blasts on stuff like big 650's and even KX 500's etc.

If less weight and a mix of more muddy or technical tracks with jumps and obstacles, then a YZ450F should be pretty awesome I'd have thought. It would be a good bit quicker more powerful and lighter/more capable than the DRZ I'd expect too.

[Suntan Sid]

What I get to ride on is like this:-

https://mycyprusinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/bigstock-Off-Road-2411186.jpg

Some of it is narrower with lots of pebbles and smallish rocks, lots of hairpin bends, (usally rutted), and lots of steep inclines.

You can see what's on offer, in the secondhand market here:-

https://www.buysellmoto.com/mobile.php?view=1

Use the "Filter ads" button to make a search.
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[thx1138]

[kilroy was here]

4 strokes stall easily at low rpm, 2 strokes with aftermarket flywheel weight/smaller carb/no thermostat/no radiator cooling fan outdo 4 strokes everywhere heavy 4 stroke with loose cam chain/dropped valve/stuck thermostat/low speed overheating - even with radiator cooling fan wired directly to it's battery leaves you stuck in middle of nowhere with expensive repair bills

Clutch lever setup tip:
When off roading the rider needs to be able to grip the left bar with the thumb & at least 2 fingers - especially when climbing hills & accelerating over rough surfaces. On most bikes the clutch has a very low biting point so the plates don't disengage when the lever touches the ring finger knuckle from the 2 finger index/middle finger or 1 finger pull technique.

This makes changing down gears when overshooting corners impossible without damaging the transmission unless the rider happens to be on flat packed terrain where he/she can rest their palm on the grip in order to pull the lever all the way in.

If this turns out to be the case' then install a shorty style clutch lever on the stock perch if available or get a cheap universal perch with included shorty lever so the ball end clears the ring finger & is able to touch the bar grip for fully disengaging the clutch plates

https://s19.postimg.org/we63jnrpv/DSC_0007.jpg

Had to saw & file smooth this PT lever into a shorty coz the owner was a skint beggar until payday

[stevo as b4]

Totally irrelevant to the OP's intended use. Two stroke bikes are not better or out do four-strokes everywhere quite like you suggest.

The whinging people going on about parts prices and loose cam chains just probably don't know how to re build them too.

What 2stroke is comparable to a 650cc four stroke for open fast trails in a hot country, and where you don't want to be stopping for a refuel every 30mins or so?

[kilroy was here]

[Howling Terror]

Something that's easy to lift off your leg and fix.
250 2 stroke.
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[stevo as b4]

There's places in the world that you wouldn't want a 2stroke bike, that's my opinion and point really.

Secondly as good and as light as a 300cc KTM is, it's still alot more thirsty and does not have a bigger tank than a four stroke to compensate?

Do you really think a 300cc stroker is comparable with a 650cc thumper for open fast off road use, and speeds approaching 3figures? The sort of two stroke to effortlessly keep up or out gun such four strokes is more like 500cc, and these are rare birds, hard to find,expensive and horrific on fuel too. Not to mention they are all competition motors that don't really like constant throttle openings and they vibrate nastily too.

[kilroy was here]

[stevo as b4]

How many top Dakar rally winners were two strokes though?

The novice argument is pointless as flip it the other way and put an expert rider on the DR650, and the novice on some super trick lighter bike won't see which way they went. Its all the rider and less than 10% the bike really.

I know the bikes your talking about are not super peaky rev to the moon machines, modern competition two strokes rarely are compared to four strokes.

The bikes I mentioned in jest are very vibey and quite peaky for half litre engines. A typical 500 has no bottom end power, no top end power and everything suddenly happening at 3000-6000rpm or thereabouts. They don't make good machines for anything away from closed course circuit events being honest, though people do have fun and even more frustration trying to use them for other things.

Did you have a cam chain snap and strangle you round the neck as a child horror experience? As all you talk about is constant cam chain failure every 500yards, like it's some ghost haunting you?

All this and still nobody has come up with some good bike suggestions for the OP and their needs.

[kilroy was here]

[Snowdonia Rider]

Husky TE310. Won't need rebuilding every half mile and light enough to pick up. Bit more torquey than a 250.

Failing anything though just get another DRZ400 and ride the fucker. Riding any bike has to be better than sitting on your arse stressing over what to ride and riding nothing at all.
____________________
I want your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle.
Suzuki GP125 Suzuki GSX600F Suzuki SV650S KTM EXC250F SkyTeam Bongo 125
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/SnowdoniaRider

[Suntan Sid]

[Suntan Sid]

[Fladdem]

Now see, I didn't quite read the OP properly and thought of a DRZ 400 as the ideal bike, but then I read it properly that you'd had one.

I would say a Husky TE610, done, or if you can find one a TE410.

Pretty reliable, I've heard, big power and plenty of torques, presumably reasonable chassis and brakes.

I don't think a two stroke would be good for that sort of thing, my CRM would be alright but would still be a big old slog to ride for any great distance on roads like that, as mentioned, they vibrate, you won't have engine braking to help control it a bit better, they drink fuel like there's no tomorrow, you'll need to premix, unless it's got an autolube system, which not many modern ones do, maybe thx1138's Beta does.

Talking of thx1138, I bet his VanVan would be reasonable for pottering along stuff like that, not as exciting but I reckon I'd find it great fun to ride.

I reckon a big-ish four stroke would be ideal. My TTR was good on stuff like that, it is only a 265cc but after all my tuning to it, it would lift the front in 5th, but far easier in 4th, and topped out at about 85mph.

It's reliable as anything, never got really hot, but as standard they are very gutlees, when I got it, it was massively down geared 13/52 and would struggle to lift in 2nd, after the overhaul, it is now running 14/48 and much better, it just needed a clutch lightening device, but I entered a few trials with it, really I should have just lowered the gearing, gone round MX tracks and done a couple of enduros, quality machine, just needed a kick start.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[thx1138]