Electric vehicles dirtier than ICE - at point of use

[weasley]

This report claims that:

• A positive relationship exists between vehicle weight and non-exhaust emissions.
• Electric vehicles are 24% heavier than their conventional counterparts.
• Electric vehicle PM emissions are comparable to those of conventional vehicles.
• Non-exhaust sources account for 90% of PM10 and 85% of PM2.5 from traffic.
• Future policy should focus on reducing vehicle weight.

In summary, it reckons that the non-engine PM derives from tyres, brakes and the road surface breaking up and that heavier EVs make more of these than conventional vehicles. It mentions bikes in brief, reporting that they offer sometimes significantly lower brake wear, tyre wear and PM "resuspension" rates than cars and other vehicles.

This scotches the "zero emissions at point of use" description often afforded to EVs and doesn't even go into the more normal combustion emissions from whatever power source is charging them.
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Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[Lord Percy]

Quickly debunked here

[Derivative]

To me, this all feels a bit like cigarettes all over again.

Yes, cars and bikes pollute. Go cycling on the A406 and tell me otherwise.

No, that doesn't mean we should ban them. They are useful. Smoking is also fun. For a while.

Electric vehicles will probably eventually be better in every imaginable way, but they're not quite there yet. (I'm hoping the Tesla Model 3 actually arrives as expected, but worried that it probably won't end up being a functional car for a few grand a decade on like a Mondeo.).

It's all going to happen, we just have to wait. Research doesn't happen overnight. The Model T didn't become the Veyron without a fight.

[MCN]

A man will never walk on the moon.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[weasley]

[Undinist]

I don't see the problem. If you want your vehicle to be cleaner than your ICE, just wash it.

[Lord Percy]

Regarding electric cars etc, it is an interesting thing to see progress.

There's been talk of oil running out for a long time. Given how much longer I potentially have on this planet, and given the ongoing estimates for how much time we have left with current oil consumption (even though the goalposts seem to keep changing), I do wonder if I'll see the big change when oil-based commodities, i.e combustion engines, start getting a lot more expensive to own and run.

I like to think I'll be riding a super-efficient, scary-silent Tron bike in the coming decades. Not to mention the fact that busy city centres will be rid of all exhaust pollution; urban areas will be like feel like a walk in the countryside, and annoying engine loud noises will largely be a thing of the past.

[Ribenapigeon]

Driver-less vehicles are what we should all fear. When mumsnet takes over and creates the new Mumsreich we just wont be allowed to drive/ride anything.

[Rogerborg]

[doggone]

[Polarbear]

They have already successfully trialled driverless electric vehicles in MK. It's now just the political will and the financial risk in the way of making them a permanent fixture.

The latest idea being that where these vehicles go will become pedestrian and driverless only. No private cars/bikes. Therefore slowly turning the city centre into a car free zone.

Sod that.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[RhynoCZ]

The EV industry is just a sham. The only goal there is to get rich on taxpayers money. Although there are countries, where electric powered vehicles are taxed, just like the petrol/diesel cars, based on the energy a EV consumes per 100km.

Anyway, If you know how they fabricate the li-Ion batteries and solar panels, then you know it requires a huge amounts of higly corrosive and toxic compounds. Look at how they get lithium for the batteries, for instance.
I was talking about this in the comment section to a video about electric vehicles (fullychargedshow or elsewhere, not sure) and people went mental. They just don't realize that driving a EV is just moving the problem with CO2 and other stuff elsewhere (knowing driving petrol/diesel cars produce next to nothing in CO2 compared to the livestock)

PS: I mention the solar panels, because the first thing people will always say is, the EV can run on energy made with solar panels.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Lord Percy]

[Polarbear]

[RhynoCZ]

[Rogerborg]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Ben90]

I did read an interesting article about how instead of 'green' EV cars fueled ultimately by dirty power stations, not to mention all of the filth from making the batteries and so on, we should look more into dirty cars fueled by green power stations

https://www.audi.co.uk/content/dam/audi/production/RestOfSite/AboutAudi/LatestNews/04_2015/Audi%20e-diesel%20-%20the%20chemical%20reactions.jpg

Pros I can see:
- already compatible with over 50% of vehicles already on road (no need to scrap millions of perfectly serviceable vehicles) with 'e-petrol' on the way for the other ~50%
- no charge times
- likely far more carbon neutral than EV vehicles

I guess the big con is you'll still get high levels of pollution in cities.
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Yamaha FZ6 S2

[Polarbear]

[kawashima]

Small EV like Renault twizy. Our gov call it Ultra- small car. My thought on this. 250cc engine on these small car instead of motor/battery.
Gov always try to go for EV as a environmental view point.
But my thought is 3000cc to 250cc engine conversion is more environmentally friendly than trying to introduce non-practical low tank mileage EV cars unsuccessfully.
I went for Eco fair at Mie pref, talked with Public officials from Mie pref demonstrating Ultra- small EV cars. Our regulation is 125cc is max size for Ultra- small car, which is so advantageous for EV system, and no one make engine powered Ultra- small car. I told them larger engine should be allowed, otherwise Ultra- small cars won't replace K-cars. But they told me Ultra- small cars are not substitute for K-cars.
So no, they aren't try to introduce Ultra- small cars seriously. That's just an Eco-appeal. Disappointed.
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own:2020 Serow 250
owned: 2012 YB125SP, 2008 TDM900, 2005 W650, 2002 LS125R, 2002 CB400SF, NS50F, C50 / Trip to UK(2009), Hokkaido touring(2013)

[RhynoCZ]

[skatefreak]

I would love to see Hydrogen used in combustion engines...
Petrol ICE's apparently aren't to far from being able to run on hydrogen however a hydrogen fuel cell would be more efficient (but less entertaining i suspect)...

With the infrastructure for LPG already out there to an extent it means distribution problems have already been largely overcome and it would also solve the great problem of inconsistency of 'green energy' sources...
Its always a good time to be chugging away making hydrogen.

One down side is it is still fairly in-efficient to make hydrogen via electrolysis and would make fuel expensive until this were overcome with a more efficient method.

Emissions won't get any greener than that

On another note, I run my car on Waste Vegetable oil I pick up from an Indian restaurant across town.

Some suggest, although it still produces emissions they should be considered carbon neutral because the carbon has been taken from the atmosphere when the crop was grown.

Does this give me extra green credentials?

I do it mostly because filling up for 0 pence per liter makes me smile more than any green credentials

[Lord Percy]

I keep telling people to read this book: Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air

It goes into pretty much everything, including the efficiency of various modes of transport.

https://i68.tinypic.com/l86s1.jpg

[kawashima]

[Rogerborg]

I believe that there's a lot of loss in electricity distribution, especially if you use alternating current. Induction charging is an interesting idea, but I wonder about the energy requirements, the power, the heat losses. Cutting through a live induction charging circuit when digging up the roads might be a very unpleasant experience.

I see that Glasgow has just breached WHO air pollution limits for both PM2.5 and PM10.

Those are primarily from diesel vehicles, and the actual city centre is filled mostly with diesel buses and taxis, but when have facts ever got in the way of ecomentalism. I just hope I'm far enough out to not be hammered by the inevitable swinging of a big, blunt instrument.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike