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samreynolds28
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Rogerborg
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 Posted: 07:08 - 19 Aug 2016  Post subject: |
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Disc brakes and electric starts will never catch on.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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NJD
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Posted: 08:41 - 19 Aug 2016  Post subject: Re: Advice for first time buyer |
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| samreynolds28 wrote: | Hi, I am after a very cheap 125cc bike (just to get me to and from work, and occasionally to university and back) just a CBT licence, price is the most important factor, cheap as possible without falling to bits on me! Any recommended models? Thanks all |
1) What's your maximum budget for the bike alone?
2) How far in miles is work and university from home?
3) What type of roads do you encounter during both trips and the maximum speed limit?
Could talk about models all day long but you'll need to find out what's local, within budget and you can afford to insure. Insurance I'd hazard a guess is the most important factor being your first year on the roads (on a bike at least?), so check that out before buying something.
I'd concur in regards to taking someone who actually rides and knows about bikes. Not someone who thinks they do. Then again it really depends what your idea of cheap is as to how picky, if at all, you can be.
I own a chinese bike as my only ride and the only thing I'd change about it is to give it more powaaaaah, other than that despite the past niggles it's not all that bad. I'd take a punt on a second hand better known model for a year or so if I had my time again, can't say I'd recommend a 125 for a prolonged period of time.. counter productive to what they where built for really.
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 12:45 - 19 Aug 2016  Post subject: Re: Advice for first time buyer |
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| samreynolds28 wrote: | Cheap, Price, Important, cheap |
There's 'cheap'
There's low cost
There's Value for money
In the 125 world, you will find little that will cost less than £500 that comes with an MOT Cert. & Beggers cant be choosers.
I could recomend an MZ 125 ETZ, and offer an enormous list of what would make one a great choice for a 'cheap' 125, liklihood you will find any-one selling one, that works, let alone, anywhere near where you might get your hands on it, is pretty slim.
I could suggest a Kawasaki KH100, as fantastic all round value for money, and again list all the virtues that make it so... but utterly pointless if you cant actually buy one!
And the bottom line is, that if you want a bike, actually 'the bike' is the last thing on the list you NEED you NEED to have one.
First you need to do a CBT course and validate provisional licence entitlement to ride a 125 on L's.... and before you can do that, you have to actually have obtained a provisional licence.
Law requires a Crash Helmet, and common sense begs some basic riding wear, like gloces, sturdy shoes and water-proofs, at the very least, and quite useful to have those of your own before you do the CBT course...
Law requires you to have, as minimum, 3rd party liability insurance; frequently the biggest associated cost of running a road bike for many riders, and especially younger ones & students.
That question begs the small matter of theft security, and where the bike may be kept, as little motorbikes are very very easy and very very often stolen......
Suggests that if you want a bike, before buying one, you get some security measures to lock it down and stand some better chancve of keeping hold of the dang thing.
Sort THAT lot, you might be able to start thinking about what bike to buy.... but still.
You are talking about daily utility riding; you are talking of longer journeys, and reliability issues.
Motorbikes aren't like cars or other domestic appliences you switch on and just 'use'; they need maintenance, and scaled down for efficiency and ecconomy, that tends to be one of the trade offs, and they usually need it quite frequently.... and in the world of the know-nuffink 'Learner' rarely get it...
So, your 2nd hand Learner-Legal will usually have been thrashed and trashed and crashed rather mercilessly for however long its been about; and whatever the books may say they were like when new, that sort of 'abuse' tends to make rather accademic; what any 2nd hand learner-bike will be like will be utterly dependent on that specific machines individual life history..... and 'condition' in the actual metal, is all... NOT what it says in the buyers guides or what we can offer about other examples we may have come accross.
Also begs you factor in the notion that whatever you go look at will need 'work'.. even if it was brand spanking new, it aught to get quite frequent routine maintenance, like oil changes, tappet tickles, chain adjustments and all round oil and adjustments.
And anything 2nd hand, you will almost certainly need to dig out of 'maintenance over-draft' and do a fair bit of work previouse owners have never bothered with... especially if they are flogging on....
So factor that into the ideas of 'cheap' and 'low cost' and value for money.
Bench-Mark Learner-commuter is a three or four year old Yamaha YBR125.
YBR costs about £2500 new in the show-rooms depending on marketing mens sales quotas advertising plans and whateverr 'discounts' may be on offer on the day on the shop floor.
All round it represents an 'optimium' for Value for Money, in usefulness, reliability, ecconomy, re-saleability and daily 'livability', but brand new, the early years depreciation blunts a fair chubk of the VFM.
At three or four years old; that early life depreciation paid by early owners; 2nd hand price ought to have fallen to some-where around the £1250 mark, half the show-room price, but with more than half the bikes original service life still left in it... hopefuly.
First MOT at 3 years from registration, and maybe a second, ought to have caught any significant owner negligence or abuse in the maintenence, and it should be a reasonably 'safe' bet itll be a useful and reletively reliable bike for a year or so to come.
In which time, in the listings, in the catalogies, still has the easy to live with advantages of the new bike, to get parts, or get insurance or find accessories like a luggage rack or whatever if you want one.
Ride the thing for a year; ought cost as little to run as a 125 can, cause little hassle, and at the end of it STILL sell on for a fair chunk of what you paid, around £1000, so its only cost you £250 or so in depreciation for the year.
THAT is about as 'CHEAP' as 125 biking comes.....
Look at older bikes, look at cheaper to buy bikes, it's more than likely they will cost you a lot more, 'all in' over the same periof, and not provide the same amount of riding for it, and cause a lot of hassle along the way..
A 'cheap' £500 bike that doesn't get you to work, because when you come to adjust its tappets the adjuster's been chewed up by a twit with a pair of pliers instead of a tool kit, and has you on the busses for a week whilst you wait for just a 75p part to pop up in the post, is not delivering 'value', and if its decayed to the point it cant pass an MOT at the end of your year, and all you can get for it is scrap value... that 'cheap' lower cost to buy price has NOT actually proved to be all that 'cheap' costing you more than the more expensive to buy bench-mark YBR.
So what's your ideas of 'cheap'
£500 or £1500?
And in either case, what about all the other shit you need BEFORE the bike.. hat gloves over-suit.... £150 or so... Provisional & CBT, another £150 or so.... Insurance... anything from £300 up for most L-Platers, depending on the post code, declared miles, declared use, like (+commuting) parking arrangements and policy 'ecxesses'; locks chains, luggage to carry books & water-proofs locks and chains.... etc etc etc.
ALL IN as a rough estimate, to get a Learner-Legal bike legally on the road, you are looking at around £2500 or so, of which the bike is only about half of what it costs.
£500 instead of a £1500, may 'save' you a grand in upfront cost, but you still have a lot of work to do to flatten the hill any more, and you cant try and haggle over the cost of your provisional licence with DVLA... well you can... let us know how you get on if you try, though! a lot of stuff just costs what it costs, and you still 'need' it.
If you are really 'cute', and skimp costs as much as you can, and in the more useful places; you MIGHT get the mountain down enough that you could get a bike to road with just £1000 cash money in your pocket to do it.... would almost certainly mean putting the insurance 'on the monthly' to do it, which is a bit of a double edged sword and doesn't 'save you money'.. you are still buying a years insurance policy, just with a credit plan to pay for it, so are paying perhaps 25% to use some-one elses money and push the higher cost ahead of you... which will leave you less in the pot to spend on that essential maintenance and repairs the bike WILL need as you go along.
But which-ever way you go about it; WE have no 'magic-formula' to make it easy for you., and serve it up on a plate for you...
You got to do the grunt work, and find the money, put the pieces in polace, make your choices and take your chances... and beggers cant be choosers; less cash you have to spend, less choice you will have, more common cocum you will have to apply to take or leave what comes along....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Shinigami |
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Shinigami
World Chat Champion
Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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| Posted: 17:00 - 19 Aug 2016 Post subject: |
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...yeah...they're not going to read all that 
have a look around locally, aim for any of the big names in your budget with MOT (check prev mot's for advisories of things about to fail).
____________________
Current: Honda City Fly CLR125 2003 Honda CB600F Hornet 2008 Yamaha FZ6 S2 + 1991 Kawasaki GPZ500
"Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
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MahatmaAndhi
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DylanMitchell
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Val
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| Posted: 08:39 - 25 Aug 2016 Post subject: Re: Advice for first time buyer |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | | samreynolds28 wrote: | Cheap, Price, Important, cheap |
There's 'cheap'
There's low cost
There's Value for money
In the 125 world, you will find little that will cost less than £500 that comes with an MOT Cert. & Beggers cant be choosers.
I could recomend an MZ 125 ETZ, and offer an enormous list of what would make one a great choice for a 'cheap' 125, liklihood you will find any-one selling one, that works, let alone, anywhere near where you might get your hands on it, is pretty slim.
I could suggest a Kawasaki KH100, as fantastic all round value for money, and again list all the virtues that make it so... but utterly pointless if you cant actually buy one!
And the bottom line is, that if you want a bike, actually 'the bike' is the last thing on the list you NEED you NEED to have one.
First you need to do a CBT course and validate provisional licence entitlement to ride a 125 on L's.... and before you can do that, you have to actually have obtained a provisional licence.
Law requires a Crash Helmet, and common sense begs some basic riding wear, like gloces, sturdy shoes and water-proofs, at the very least, and quite useful to have those of your own before you do the CBT course...
Law requires you to have, as minimum, 3rd party liability insurance; frequently the biggest associated cost of running a road bike for many riders, and especially younger ones & students.
That question begs the small matter of theft security, and where the bike may be kept, as little motorbikes are very very easy and very very often stolen......
Suggests that if you want a bike, before buying one, you get some security measures to lock it down and stand some better chancve of keeping hold of the dang thing.
Sort THAT lot, you might be able to start thinking about what bike to buy.... but still.
You are talking about daily utility riding; you are talking of longer journeys, and reliability issues.
Motorbikes aren't like cars or other domestic appliences you switch on and just 'use'; they need maintenance, and scaled down for efficiency and ecconomy, that tends to be one of the trade offs, and they usually need it quite frequently.... and in the world of the know-nuffink 'Learner' rarely get it...
So, your 2nd hand Learner-Legal will usually have been thrashed and trashed and crashed rather mercilessly for however long its been about; and whatever the books may say they were like when new, that sort of 'abuse' tends to make rather accademic; what any 2nd hand learner-bike will be like will be utterly dependent on that specific machines individual life history..... and 'condition' in the actual metal, is all... NOT what it says in the buyers guides or what we can offer about other examples we may have come accross.
Also begs you factor in the notion that whatever you go look at will need 'work'.. even if it was brand spanking new, it aught to get quite frequent routine maintenance, like oil changes, tappet tickles, chain adjustments and all round oil and adjustments.
And anything 2nd hand, you will almost certainly need to dig out of 'maintenance over-draft' and do a fair bit of work previouse owners have never bothered with... especially if they are flogging on....
So factor that into the ideas of 'cheap' and 'low cost' and value for money.
Bench-Mark Learner-commuter is a three or four year old Yamaha YBR125.
YBR costs about £2500 new in the show-rooms depending on marketing mens sales quotas advertising plans and whateverr 'discounts' may be on offer on the day on the shop floor.
All round it represents an 'optimium' for Value for Money, in usefulness, reliability, ecconomy, re-saleability and daily 'livability', but brand new, the early years depreciation blunts a fair chubk of the VFM.
At three or four years old; that early life depreciation paid by early owners; 2nd hand price ought to have fallen to some-where around the £1250 mark, half the show-room price, but with more than half the bikes original service life still left in it... hopefuly.
First MOT at 3 years from registration, and maybe a second, ought to have caught any significant owner negligence or abuse in the maintenence, and it should be a reasonably 'safe' bet itll be a useful and reletively reliable bike for a year or so to come.
In which time, in the listings, in the catalogies, still has the easy to live with advantages of the new bike, to get parts, or get insurance or find accessories like a luggage rack or whatever if you want one.
Ride the thing for a year; ought cost as little to run as a 125 can, cause little hassle, and at the end of it STILL sell on for a fair chunk of what you paid, around £1000, so its only cost you £250 or so in depreciation for the year.
THAT is about as 'CHEAP' as 125 biking comes.....
Look at older bikes, look at cheaper to buy bikes, it's more than likely they will cost you a lot more, 'all in' over the same periof, and not provide the same amount of riding for it, and cause a lot of hassle along the way..
A 'cheap' £500 bike that doesn't get you to work, because when you come to adjust its tappets the adjuster's been chewed up by a twit with a pair of pliers instead of a tool kit, and has you on the busses for a week whilst you wait for just a 75p part to pop up in the post, is not delivering 'value', and if its decayed to the point it cant pass an MOT at the end of your year, and all you can get for it is scrap value... that 'cheap' lower cost to buy price has NOT actually proved to be all that 'cheap' costing you more than the more expensive to buy bench-mark YBR.
So what's your ideas of 'cheap'
£500 or £1500?
And in either case, what about all the other shit you need BEFORE the bike.. hat gloves over-suit.... £150 or so... Provisional & CBT, another £150 or so.... Insurance... anything from £300 up for most L-Platers, depending on the post code, declared miles, declared use, like (+commuting) parking arrangements and policy 'ecxesses'; locks chains, luggage to carry books & water-proofs locks and chains.... etc etc etc.
ALL IN as a rough estimate, to get a Learner-Legal bike legally on the road, you are looking at around £2500 or so, of which the bike is only about half of what it costs.
£500 instead of a £1500, may 'save' you a grand in upfront cost, but you still have a lot of work to do to flatten the hill any more, and you cant try and haggle over the cost of your provisional licence with DVLA... well you can... let us know how you get on if you try, though! a lot of stuff just costs what it costs, and you still 'need' it.
If you are really 'cute', and skimp costs as much as you can, and in the more useful places; you MIGHT get the mountain down enough that you could get a bike to road with just £1000 cash money in your pocket to do it.... would almost certainly mean putting the insurance 'on the monthly' to do it, which is a bit of a double edged sword and doesn't 'save you money'.. you are still buying a years insurance policy, just with a credit plan to pay for it, so are paying perhaps 25% to use some-one elses money and push the higher cost ahead of you... which will leave you less in the pot to spend on that essential maintenance and repairs the bike WILL need as you go along.
But which-ever way you go about it; WE have no 'magic-formula' to make it easy for you., and serve it up on a plate for you...
You got to do the grunt work, and find the money, put the pieces in polace, make your choices and take your chances... and beggers cant be choosers; less cash you have to spend, less choice you will have, more common cocum you will have to apply to take or leave what comes along.... |
^^^ This.
Also read this >>:
| Teflon-Mike wrote: |
There's 'cheap'
There's low cost
There's Value for money
In the 125 world, you will find little that will cost less than £500 that comes with an MOT Cert. & Beggers cant be choosers.
I could recomend an MZ 125 ETZ, and offer an enormous list of what would make one a great choice for a 'cheap' 125, liklihood you will find any-one selling one, that works, let alone, anywhere near where you might get your hands on it, is pretty slim.
I could suggest a Kawasaki KH100, as fantastic all round value for money, and again list all the virtues that make it so... but utterly pointless if you cant actually buy one!
And the bottom line is, that if you want a bike, actually 'the bike' is the last thing on the list you NEED you NEED to have one.
First you need to do a CBT course and validate provisional licence entitlement to ride a 125 on L's.... and before you can do that, you have to actually have obtained a provisional licence.
Law requires a Crash Helmet, and common sense begs some basic riding wear, like gloces, sturdy shoes and water-proofs, at the very least, and quite useful to have those of your own before you do the CBT course...
Law requires you to have, as minimum, 3rd party liability insurance; frequently the biggest associated cost of running a road bike for many riders, and especially younger ones & students.
That question begs the small matter of theft security, and where the bike may be kept, as little motorbikes are very very easy and very very often stolen......
Suggests that if you want a bike, before buying one, you get some security measures to lock it down and stand some better chancve of keeping hold of the dang thing.
Sort THAT lot, you might be able to start thinking about what bike to buy.... but still.
You are talking about daily utility riding; you are talking of longer journeys, and reliability issues.
Motorbikes aren't like cars or other domestic appliences you switch on and just 'use'; they need maintenance, and scaled down for efficiency and ecconomy, that tends to be one of the trade offs, and they usually need it quite frequently.... and in the world of the know-nuffink 'Learner' rarely get it...
So, your 2nd hand Learner-Legal will usually have been thrashed and trashed and crashed rather mercilessly for however long its been about; and whatever the books may say they were like when new, that sort of 'abuse' tends to make rather accademic; what any 2nd hand learner-bike will be like will be utterly dependent on that specific machines individual life history..... and 'condition' in the actual metal, is all... NOT what it says in the buyers guides or what we can offer about other examples we may have come accross.
Also begs you factor in the notion that whatever you go look at will need 'work'.. even if it was brand spanking new, it aught to get quite frequent routine maintenance, like oil changes, tappet tickles, chain adjustments and all round oil and adjustments.
And anything 2nd hand, you will almost certainly need to dig out of 'maintenance over-draft' and do a fair bit of work previouse owners have never bothered with... especially if they are flogging on....
So factor that into the ideas of 'cheap' and 'low cost' and value for money.
Bench-Mark Learner-commuter is a three or four year old Yamaha YBR125.
YBR costs about £2500 new in the show-rooms depending on marketing mens sales quotas advertising plans and whateverr 'discounts' may be on offer on the day on the shop floor.
All round it represents an 'optimium' for Value for Money, in usefulness, reliability, ecconomy, re-saleability and daily 'livability', but brand new, the early years depreciation blunts a fair chubk of the VFM.
At three or four years old; that early life depreciation paid by early owners; 2nd hand price ought to have fallen to some-where around the £1250 mark, half the show-room price, but with more than half the bikes original service life still left in it... hopefuly.
First MOT at 3 years from registration, and maybe a second, ought to have caught any significant owner negligence or abuse in the maintenence, and it should be a reasonably 'safe' bet itll be a useful and reletively reliable bike for a year or so to come.
In which time, in the listings, in the catalogies, still has the easy to live with advantages of the new bike, to get parts, or get insurance or find accessories like a luggage rack or whatever if you want one.
Ride the thing for a year; ought cost as little to run as a 125 can, cause little hassle, and at the end of it STILL sell on for a fair chunk of what you paid, around £1000, so its only cost you £250 or so in depreciation for the year.
THAT is about as 'CHEAP' as 125 biking comes.....
Look at older bikes, look at cheaper to buy bikes, it's more than likely they will cost you a lot more, 'all in' over the same periof, and not provide the same amount of riding for it, and cause a lot of hassle along the way..
A 'cheap' £500 bike that doesn't get you to work, because when you come to adjust its tappets the adjuster's been chewed up by a twit with a pair of pliers instead of a tool kit, and has you on the busses for a week whilst you wait for just a 75p part to pop up in the post, is not delivering 'value', and if its decayed to the point it cant pass an MOT at the end of your year, and all you can get for it is scrap value... that 'cheap' lower cost to buy price has NOT actually proved to be all that 'cheap' costing you more than the more expensive to buy bench-mark YBR.
So what's your ideas of 'cheap'
£500 or £1500?
And in either case, what about all the other shit you need BEFORE the bike.. hat gloves over-suit.... £150 or so... Provisional & CBT, another £150 or so.... Insurance... anything from £300 up for most L-Platers, depending on the post code, declared miles, declared use, like (+commuting) parking arrangements and policy 'ecxesses'; locks chains, luggage to carry books & water-proofs locks and chains.... etc etc etc.
ALL IN as a rough estimate, to get a Learner-Legal bike legally on the road, you are looking at around £2500 or so, of which the bike is only about half of what it costs.
£500 instead of a £1500, may 'save' you a grand in upfront cost, but you still have a lot of work to do to flatten the hill any more, and you cant try and haggle over the cost of your provisional licence with DVLA... well you can... let us know how you get on if you try, though! a lot of stuff just costs what it costs, and you still 'need' it.
If you are really 'cute', and skimp costs as much as you can, and in the more useful places; you MIGHT get the mountain down enough that you could get a bike to road with just £1000 cash money in your pocket to do it.... would almost certainly mean putting the insurance 'on the monthly' to do it, which is a bit of a double edged sword and doesn't 'save you money'.. you are still buying a years insurance policy, just with a credit plan to pay for it, so are paying perhaps 25% to use some-one elses money and push the higher cost ahead of you... which will leave you less in the pot to spend on that essential maintenance and repairs the bike WILL need as you go along.
But which-ever way you go about it; WE have no 'magic-formula' to make it easy for you., and serve it up on a plate for you...
You got to do the grunt work, and find the money, put the pieces in polace, make your choices and take your chances... and beggers cant be choosers; less cash you have to spend, less choice you will have, more common cocum you will have to apply to take or leave what comes along.... |
____________________
Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900 |
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