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Where have all the 600cc bikes gone?

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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 07:04 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Where have all the 600cc bikes gone? Reply with quote

I apologise for living under a rock for a while and being out of touch.

Shopping online and looking at the new bikes on sale it's quite apparent that the 600cc sports bikes have gone?

The r6 appears to be the only one I can see still being churned out.

Have I missed something?

Are the 1000cc bikes soon to be threatened too with the increase in smaller and I assume better emission bikes?
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Where have all the 600cc bikes gone? Reply with quote

600cc sports bikes have been largely irrelevant for years now ..

Whosthedaddy wrote:


Are the 1000cc bikes soon to be threatened too with the increase in smaller and I assume better emission bikes?


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Itchy
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Where have all the 600cc bikes gone? Reply with quote

Whosthedaddy wrote:

Have I missed something?


In a nutshell emissions standards and the small market meaning it simply wasn't worth the time for big manufacturers to modify or make bikes that meet those standards.
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Johanna
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also sport bike sales are down overall in favour of adventure bikes and naked bikes.

I guess that would encourage manufacturers to thin out their range a bit.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the people who used to buy 600s now buy supernakeds and adventure bikes. The hardcore sports crowd still ride 1000cc bikes. There are still 1000cc bikes in the top sellers from many manufacturers, but for some reason nobody wants a low powered uncomfortable peaky track bike for the road.

It's actually a shame, as track bikes will become more and more scarce.

The 600s used to be all-rounders for people who didn't want excessive power. Nowadays this role is filled by Supernakeds and adventure bikes.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The UK's roads are too shit and the populace too fat for supersport 600s. They are cramped, peaky and crap on the roads. IMO 95% of riders would be faster on the road on a down tuned softer sprung naked as they suite the roads better. Generally people that own them like the sports bikes look but can't afford to buy/insure a bigger bike. Also

TL:DR the roads and the rider need to be better for an SS600 to make sense on the road.
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Meef
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really don't understand why though, I love my R6 to bits.

My friends all have 600s too.

It's weird.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meef wrote:
Really don't understand why though, I love my R6 to bits.

My friends all have 600s too.

It's weird.


+1. all my group have 600s. Some sports, some nakeds.
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GT200Fan79
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame millennials. Stop issuing bike licences to young people and things will improve.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the nerfing of many of the twisty roads 60 speed limits into 50s, with increasingly random 30s and 40s along the way mixed in, as had anything to do with it
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FretGrinder
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: Where have all the 600cc bikes gone? Reply with quote

Whosthedaddy wrote:
I apologise for living under a rock for a while and being out of touch.

Shopping online and looking at the new bikes on sale it's quite apparent that the 600cc sports bikes have gone?

The r6 appears to be the only one I can see still being churned out.

Have I missed something?

Are the 1000cc bikes soon to be threatened too with the increase in smaller and I assume better emission bikes?


They're all being bought by old men to hide in a barn, to then sell at a ridiculously inflated price a few years from now.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 13 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the above is true.
But 600SS bikes didn't always used to be so cramped, tiny and peaky. SS600 race homologation rules changed them from useful and decent fast/comfortable machines into race bikes that are horrible to use on road and don't fit many average UK people.

The same thing has happened with 1000cc SS bikes, and they are all pretty much WSB machines made to be road legal and meet noise/emissions legislation. They will dissappear too.

The all round adventure/naked or supernakeds and the upright adventure sports tourers are all the masses want. These are mature people generally from 25-50 with no previous bike experience or heritage. Cut their arms off and they won't bleed team green Kawasaki blood, but they'll read ride magazine and watch bloggers and all the other lifestyle types, to see which model has the best connectivity or electronic features etc. That's where new bike sales of bigger bikes are at in the UK.

And well as for the collector's and old guys sitting on a pension, it's entirely likely to a small extent. I go on the RD/LC forum alot, and you wouldn't believe what a weird set in their ways bunch of moaning old woman they are generally. There's some that are too unwell or unfit to ride, but including these I'd say at least 25% of these 50-60 somethings just enjoy either building and restoring bikes only, or speculating on buying and storing bikes with future profit their goal.
The 600's will go the same way and end up with the next generation of these people.
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 10:07 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a slightly related subject, what will happen to the Superbike race classes, BSB and WSBK? With a rapidly declining take up of 1000's and the virtual dumping of 600's by manufacturers, what will the next race series be, GS1200's with all the metal pannier work? Chinese 125's with Bazouki (sp?) fairings? Harley Davidson dressers towing a trailer? These are the things actually selling to the general public these days........
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bigdom86
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: re Reply with quote

commuter in London here, 90% of bikes I see are scooters and large adventure BMW type bikes, but every now and again I see a 600SS. I ride an older 600SS (cbr600 f4i 02 plate) as said above they are tiny now and not much use on the road at all. I tried to ride a newer 600rr and sat on a newer R1 and blade, tiny tiny bikes compared to the older SS bikes, no idea what I am going to do when the ULEZ moves out to the south circular, might have to bite the bullet and get an upright bike like a MT10
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A100man
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

bigdom86 wrote:
commuter in London here, 90% of bikes I see are scooters and large adventure BMW type bikes, ..


So bike are in effect going the same way as cars 'Adventure - SUV analogy' High ride height and (perhaps) better suspension travel whether you need it or not. What's the betting JLR will develop an 'adventure' bike or simply buy Triumph ?
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bigdom86
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
bigdom86 wrote:
commuter in London here, 90% of bikes I see are scooters and large adventure BMW type bikes, ..


So bike are in effect going the same way as cars 'Adventure - SUV analogy' High ride height and (perhaps) better suspension travel whether you need it or not. What's the betting JLR will develop an 'adventure' bike or simply buy Triumph ?


seems to be going that way tbh, i guess all you need in a big city is a scooter anyway unless like myself you prefer the seating position and power of a motorbike. i would say that majority of adventure type motorbike riders in london are fair weather riders or mid-life crisis/banker types as once it gets a bit chilly i rarely see a full powered motorbike on my commute but tons of scooters
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woo
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ULEZ will kill off all pre 2007 motorbikes.

Im pissed cos i want a suzuki gsxr k5/k6 1000 but will have to settle with a k7/k8 1000 in spring next year

these days i do smile when i see a 600ss as i do not see them as much as i used to

these so many adventure bikes now and they seem more common place in london that is.

ive even turned my honda msx 125 into a mini adventure bike
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fatjames
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still ride a 600 Smile
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel old, broken, heavy and inflexible enough to want an upright naked and I'm just into my 30s.

A few years ago a WSB chief said they'd be open to replacing Super-sports with a naked class, WSB/BSB now have a commuter twins in a plastic frock category so they are seemingly open to changing the race classes to accommodate what manufacturers are actually selling.

I'd watch any class of competitive motorcycle track racing tbh so long as the speeds are kept high.

A cruiser fag class could be as enthralling as this:
https://youtu.be/ht_aacQttGo?t=79
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to see 600cc naked* cruiser-fag electric scooter racing. Preferably 24hr endurance class.

*bike and rider, obvs.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be up for watching all that in the name of variety. It'd be interesting to see a geeky electric twist and go race series, but taken very seriously with Mugen level bikes, and all the nerdy stuff obsessed over like super rare earth magnet motors and semi conductor controllers and re-gen systems.

A class of Honda shadows or similar racing would be cool, just to see all the sparks flying and bits of bike falling off at every corner. There's some powerful cruisers, and some of the big American 2litre aftermarket engines can make 160bhp ish.

Being vaguely sensible I think Marjay said it first about there's likely to be a class or a couple of classes of either these super nakeds like the KTM 990/1290 etc and or things like modified XTZ 1200's or Multistrada's etc.

It'd be a bit of a throwback and full return circle to the Spencer CB900's and Eddie Lawson Z1000's etc, which would be quite cool to watch too.

And yeah I agree that new big bikes are going very SUV like, in being tall, big and roomy, but with big power engines.

Maybe BTTC will turn into an SUV race series soon with Super tuned Quashqi's, Cayenne's, Kadjar's, CHR's and Jag F-paces.
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Old Git Racing
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 14 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever ridden a modern 600 'supersports' bike? They must be the most unrewarding bike to ride as an everyday ride. Gutless expensive,
characterless marketing led pieces of shit, like a khaki bird in red knickers.
Why would you?

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A100man
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PostPosted: 08:21 - 15 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Git Racing wrote:
.. like a khaki bird in red knickers.
Why would you?
OGR


I'm trying to understand this and struggling. Right now I'm in the ' a drop of water is an oasis to a thirsty man ' category, so right now khaki and red seem pretty appealing..
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 15 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about modern 600's, and that means 2005> on for me. But before that I can't call previous 600's all gutless cramped and slow because they weren't. OK litre bikes were still physically bigger and heavier then, and the 35-45bhp differential was still there.

So today litre bikes weigh the same or less than these modern 600's and the top line bhp differential is more like 60bhp. They are still about 30-35ibft up on torque but I would possibly struggle to see how a modern litre bike with all top end biased power unlike the old ones is a power house? The 600's sure have never made any more torque than they did 25years ago, but the 1000's have kept theirs and just pushed the peak up about 2000rpm? Theres what 10-12mph difference in top speed between 600 and 1000, but the 1000's are getting there alot quicker as you'd expect.

I think the naffness of modern 600's is more attributed to thier tiny size, and uncomfort along with them being ever more race focused and road unsuitable. All this applies equally to new 1000's IMO but it's just far lessened to a degree with 60bhp and 35ibft extra. The bikes are still as uncomfortable and focused and road unsuitable.
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Fin
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 16 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame the licensing that means you can't get a full power bike until your 24+.

Unless you're really keen and do 2 tests, in which case you'd probably get a litre bike.

I'd say a lot of the people who are doing their DAS 24+ just aren't interested in an 'uncomfortable' SS600. The 2 people I know who have done their DAS have bought naked/upright bikes and aren't really interested in racing around. People that age are arguably more sensible or have kids and responsibilities so will take the adventure options.

On the other end my best mate has just done his A2 and bought 'the quickest' new bike that fits in the category non restricted which is a ninja 400.

Manufacturers found the 600ss with the R&D were costing more than they were making. I'm sure someone posted an article a while back about Honda backing out.
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