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Wiring up a new oven.

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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Wiring up a new oven. Reply with quote

I'm replacing our single oven with a double, the old one is plugged into a 13amp amp socket.

The new is too powerful to run on a ring so will need it's own connection to the fuseboard.

I know it will need an isolator but will it need a separate fuse?

My limited knowledge of electrics tells be the fuse board is there to protect the wiring and each appliance will have it's own fuse of the correct rating.

As the oven is the only thing connected to the fuse board will can I rely on the board or will it need another fuse? If so should it be before or after the isolator.

The oven can use 4.9kw so the fuse will need to be ~25amp, would a 32a breaker be ok?

If it needs a separate fuse should this go before or after the isolator.
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331X2
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: Wiring up a new oven. Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
My limited knowledge of electrics tells be...


That you should get a competent electrician in to do the install.
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groovylee
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

you'll need a connection to the consumer unit. that will need to be connected, via the correct sized cable (6mm will be fine for that size), to one of these:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-2-gang-45a-dp-switch-with-neon-white/15973

or similar, above the worktop somewhere. that then connects (again using 6mm) to one of these:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-45a-cooker-connection-unit-white/16686

under the worktop, which then connects to your cooker, using the cooker cable.

32A breaker will be fine.

all advice to be taken at your own risk, etc etc.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legally, I think it's something that is now only meant to be sorted by a qualified electrician.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Legally, I think it's something that is now only meant to be sorted by a qualified electrician.


I'm fed up with tradesmen TBH, practically everyone I have spoken to makes it out like they are doing you a favour by coming to your house and being paid for a job, thats if they show up and thats if they return your call in the first place. I ended up moving a gas pipe myself because no fucker would give me a time when they would come round despite trying loads.


My Dad was an electrician and so is a mate, neither have done house stuff for ages though. One of them will help me/do it.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most houses have a 30A spur with an isolator for the oven. Get an isolator with a socket and you can plug your welder into it (when the oven is off).

Use 6mm sq cable.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 01 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rewired my entire house, including a double oven supply with the assistance of a Collins diy manual and some pdf's I downloaded.
If you've got the motivation, it's easy stuff.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 08:27 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: Wiring up a new oven. Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
The oven can use 4.9kw so the fuse will need to be ~25amp


That gives you a voltage of about 200?

https://www.trustatrader.com/
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: Wiring up a new oven. Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
chris-red wrote:
The oven can use 4.9kw so the fuse will need to be ~25amp


That gives you a voltage of about 200?

https://www.trustatrader.com/


He only needs enough juice flowing to the oven for cooking toasted cheese, it's fine.
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Mark_F
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Legally, I think it's something that is now only meant to be sorted by a qualified electrician.


Not sure about that.

Legally it is something that should be done by a "competent person", and whilst a qualified electrician would be considered a competent person, that qualification is not the only measure of competence.
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Mark_F
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: Wiring up a new oven. Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
chris-red wrote:
The oven can use 4.9kw so the fuse will need to be ~25amp


That gives you a voltage of about 200?

https://www.trustatrader.com/


It doesn't remotely work like that.

The voltage is relatively fixed, the appliance will draw as much current as it needs (providing there is no fault) to work as set.

The fuse is there to protect the wiring. 6mm sq cable is usually rated to around 45amps CCC, so the fuse needs to be rated below that 45amps (to protect the wiring), but can be higher than the normal draw of the appliance. In this case, the appliance may draw a smidge more than 20amps under normal use, thus a 25amp fuse would be appropriate (given that it's the next size up from 20amps).

The power draw of the appliance determines the size of cable required, and the size of cable determines the maximum fuse size (though it is appropriate to reduce the fuse size to suit the appliance).
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: Wiring up a new oven. Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
chris-red wrote:
The oven can use 4.9kw so the fuse will need to be ~25amp


That gives you a voltage of about 200?

https://www.trustatrader.com/


Care to explain? From school I remember

Power/Volts = Current
4900w/230v = 21.3amp

Fuses should always be a bit* more than the maximum draw.

Therefor 25amp seems reasonable.

*(technical term)
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
I ended up moving a gas pipe myself because no fucker would give me a time when they would come round despite trying loads.


This was because you refused to pay for a reputable company.

You do of course realise it is illegal for you to work on gas pipes, that you are probably in contravention of your mortgage, invalidated your insurance and endangered the life of yourself, your other half and your neighbours?

Hope you remembered to do the correct leak tests afterwards?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: Wiring up a new oven. Reply with quote

Cached before any posts get edited. Wink
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:


Hope you remembered to do the correct leak tests afterwards?


Yeah high fucking tech top-secret leak tests that gas installers never talk about because you need to be in the super secret gas installer club to know about them.

Apparently nothing at all to do with soapy water.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as various tradesmen have pissed me off for many of the above reasons and more. You really are just better off paying for it to be done.

Or, if you have not purchased the double oven - AO.com will fit one and send a 'competent' person to do it for an extra fee.

I had entire an new gas central heating installed last week and the plumber wanted to plug the boiler in to one of the kitchen sockets. I insisted we just got an electrician to install a proper spur for it... it's only a few quid and the job is proper.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
sickpup wrote:


Hope you remembered to do the correct leak tests afterwards?


Yeah high fucking tech top-secret leak tests that gas installers never talk about because you need to be in the super secret gas installer club to know about them.

Apparently nothing at all to do with soapy water.


They could use a sniffer for methane. Smile

I recently searched for 'rules' concerning bottle gas installation for mobile home/camper.

It is quite confused some advise it come under Gas Safe and some advise not. A caravan parked at the side of a house/full of family would possibly make a bit of a mess too if it decided to ignite.

I just replaced the hoses on my BBQ and camper no kittens were harmed.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:

They could use a sniffer for methane. Smile

I recently searched for 'rules' concerning bottle gas installation for mobile home/camper.

It is quite confused some advise it come under Gas Safe and some advise not. A caravan parked at the side of a house/full of family would possibly make a bit of a mess too if it decided to ignite.

I just replaced the hoses on my BBQ and camper no kittens were harmed.


I did mine with the 6mm plastic coated microbore they use for car LPG systems. Perfect for an LPG hob if you need to use gas bottles.

Then I pressurised it to 120psi and listened for leaks.

Gas safe people don't check for leaks though. They just hook it up and switch it on. I've watched them do it.

I took the gas meter out at my work, blanked the pipe off and wired the tap shut. It was constantly under the feet and we don't use gas. I will assure anyone official who whinges about it that my boss gave me a very stern talking to about it when he found out.

Someone still comes round once a quarter and reads the meter though. Despite it being dumped on the floor in a back room not connected to anything.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

This was because you refused to pay for a reputable company.

Hope you remembered to do the correct leak tests afterwards?


Nonsense, I didn't even get a definite price from anyone, one bloke said "about £200" and dodged my calls for 2 weeks trying to get him to turn up, then said he would come one day and didn't with no call so I didn't bother with him again. The rest didn't answer or didn't show up when they said. It had nothing to with me refusing ANY price.

And of course we leaked tested. Rolling Eyes
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.


Last edited by chris-red on 14:12 - 02 Aug 2016; edited 1 time in total
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
MCN wrote:

They could use a sniffer for methane. Smile

I recently searched for 'rules' concerning bottle gas installation for mobile home/camper.

It is quite confused some advise it come under Gas Safe and some advise not. A caravan parked at the side of a house/full of family would possibly make a bit of a mess too if it decided to ignite.

I just replaced the hoses on my BBQ and camper no kittens were harmed.


I did mine with the 6mm plastic coated microbore they use for car LPG systems. Perfect for an LPG hob if you need to use gas bottles.

Then I pressurised it to 120psi and listened for leaks.

Gas safe people don't check for leaks though. They just hook it up and switch it on. I've watched them do it.

I took the gas meter out at my work, blanked the pipe off and wired the tap shut. It was constantly under the feet and we don't use gas. I will assure anyone official who whinges about it that my boss gave me a very stern talking to about it when he found out.

Someone still comes round once a quarter and reads the meter though. Despite it being dumped on the floor in a back room not connected to anything.


No you never disconnected it.... You came into work one morning and it had fell off the wall. Shocked (I was there so I remember the very day.)

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help-and-advice/complaints-report-an-illegal/report-suspect-gas-work/
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Apparently nothing at all to do with soapy water.


Shouldn't use soapy water, the salts in it cause corrosion of joints but you knew that didn't you?

chris-red wrote:
sickpup wrote:

This was because you refused to pay for a reputable company.

Hope you remembered to do the correct leak tests afterwards?


Nonsense, I didn't even get a definite price from anyone, one bloke said "about £200" and dodged my calls for 2 weeks trying to get him to turn up, then said he would come one day and didn't with no call so I didn't bother with him again. The rest didn't answer or didn't show up when they said. It had nothing to with me refusing ANY price.

And of course we leaked tested. Rolling Eyes


Chris you can get a plumber/heating engineer/Electrician any day but it will cost you £120+VAT an hour. There won't be any waiting they will turn up same day it really is that simple but you keep pissing around.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
And of course we leaked tested. Rolling Eyes


Love the mock indignation. You broke the law but you did it so very well Wink
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh well, no kittens died.

Yes I was pissing around it would seem, looking at the best rated Trust a Trader and check a trade and leaving messages for each of the top 3/4 in the area was a total waste of time. Where are these magic plumbers you get then? I suppose I will have to endure several more of your smug mocking posts before you dispatch any actual advice as per usual...
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 02 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Oh well, no kittens died.

Yes I was pissing around it would seem, looking at the best rated Trust a Trader and check a trade and leaving messages for each of the top 3/4 in the area was a total waste of time. Where are these magic plumbers you get then? I suppose I will have to endure several more of your smug mocking posts before you dispatch any actual advice as per usual...


Well it evidently was a waste of time and as to smug, pot kettle black? Wink
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