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venari
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 25 Jun 2016    Post subject: Black Widow Exhausts Reply with quote

Hi guys,

Just wondering if anybody has recently purchased an exhaust system from these guys and if so what they thought of it.

Thanks


*I am aware that Black Widow Exhausts were previously called Sandy's Bike Spares (SBS) and had a poor reputation - I want to know if with the new branding they have managed to move on to a better product line or whether they are still one to avoid.

Oh, and yes I tried the search function:
Yamahampton wrote:
I used the black widow system (sandy exhausts) on my old xj600, full system £230ish well worth it, well made, good fit, comes with all clamps and gaskets, warranty, sounds good and British made. Can't recommend them enough

Matt B wrote:
when I looked into them a little while ago the Black Widow stuff was not E marked/legal for road use. Could cause a problem with a picky MOT tester.

Rogerborg wrote:
The cheap Sandy Bike Spares stainless headers that I got for my GPZ ran too low and melted through the belly pan.
It turned out that this is a known problem with them that has been reported by other buyers.
They were not remotely interested in resolving it.
I would treat any claim about them not requiring rejetting, or actually fitting the bike, or having any warranty at all - let alone a 2 year unlimited mileage one - with the ridicule that it deserves.

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Last edited by venari on 22:46 - 25 Jun 2016; edited 1 time in total
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wots
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 25 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full system with carbon end can (magnesium tipped). Wonderful nice sound, really well put together. £200

This was for my MSX, but heard good things on other bikes.
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venari
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 25 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

marks152 wrote:
I ordered a set of cbr600 downpipes from sandy bikes and when they came they had a hole in them, when i rang to sort it out they told me that delkevic make them and id need to contact them which i did, got past from pillar to post, eventually after threating them, delkevic agreed that it was a manurfacturing fault and replaced them with another set which were slightly misaligned on the head resulting in blowing, replaced the gaskets twice before i took them off and got a ruler across them and found the 3rd pipe was about 6mm out of alighnment, i rang them back up and played fuck with them and next day i had another set, fitted perfect, i wasnt happy with the pipes as whenever they had to go round a bent it narrowed from say 35mm to 30mm and was restricting the bike, spent over £300 trying to get the bike tuned with these pipes, the bike was making 6bhp less with there pipes than standard and in the end i sold them on ebay and picked up a set of micron pipes, fitted first go and the bike rode perfect, bhp was increased aswell, thats just my experience with them, but im sure there have been alot of happy people on here who have used them and had no problems

Source: https://bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showthread.php?t=99006
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wots
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 25 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting, as I've had two Delkevic end cans and both whilst well made. Are obnoxiously loud. One I'm removing from the ER6 tomorrow as I just can't live with it.
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wots
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 25 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I got it
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/2dde863f-780a-4cf4-ac2e-c9d014526810_zpsi73rujeq.jpg
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 07:27 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is what it is really. it's all cheap generic stuff. PB are running a system on their project Bandit at the moment and seem to think it's alright.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 07:30 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a set of their downpipes on the GSXR.

Bit close to the fairing in one spot, but otherwise seem fine.
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venari
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
It is what it is really. it's all cheap generic stuff. PB are running a system on their project Bandit at the moment and seem to think it's alright.


Some interesting responses, thanks guys.

Seems like they must be quite a large manufacturer now so I guess there will always be a small percentage of unhappy customers (probably the loudest) and like Ham says we're looking at the cheap end of the market.

Interesting claims that they're not road legal and are unusually loud.

I was looking for a quieter exhaust really.
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wots
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

venari wrote:
Interesting claims that they're not road legal and are unusually loud.

I was looking for a quieter exhaust really.
I said the Delkevic exhaust was loud (because it was mentioned), the Black Widow sounds perfect, not too loud and nice tone. I wanted something I could run every day without scaring the neighbours at 7am. Fits the bill perfectly.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

venari wrote:


Some interesting responses, thanks guys.

Seems like they must be quite a large manufacturer now so I guess there will always be a small percentage of unhappy customers (probably the loudest) and like Ham says we're looking at the cheap end of the market.

Interesting claims that they're not road legal and are unusually loud.

I was looking for a quieter exhaust really.


What bike are you after a full system for?

The end cans will be loud as they're using cheaper/less packing. No money for homologation to be E-Marked means they're "race only". Not sure if they use removable baffles or not. They're actually just down the road from me IIRC.

Might be worth getting Black widow headers and a different end can if you want something quieter? Are there no OE headers on eBay?
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wots
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The can above does have a removable baffle and works quite well. Not sure if it has markings one way or the other. Will have to look. I do have a video somewhere of baffle vs no baffle. But it is on a 125 MSX, so the farty noise might not give a fair idea for a bigger bike. Sounds ok though.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

wots wrote:
The can above does have a removable baffle and works quite well. Not sure if it has markings one way or the other. Will have to look. I do have a video somewhere of baffle vs no baffle. But it is on a 125 MSX, so the farty noise might not give a fair idea for a bigger bike. Sounds ok though.


Fair play. Just had a look on their site. It says "road legal", but doesn't mention how they've come to that conclusion. £10 says there's no markings on them.
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venari
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
What bike are you after a full system for?

The end cans will be loud as they're using cheaper/less packing. No money for homologation to be E-Marked means they're "race only". Not sure if they use removable baffles or not. They're actually just down the road from me IIRC.

Might be worth getting Black widow headers and a different end can if you want something quieter? Are there no OE headers on eBay?


It's a Yamaha FZR 400 1WG (1986) - an imported 400

Black Widow are the only manufacturers I can find who still list headers for my bike. They don't sell the headers separately - you have to buy the full system from them. But at £275 that's not a massive problem (even though my bike is probably worth about £500 max).
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a set of downpipes for my Fazer from them. Cheap enough and 3 years on still look OK so I can't complain.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black Widow and Delkevic are the only ones to list headers (catless) for mine. I have Remus cans on but my cat isn't going to last forever so unless I buy a second hand set (or earlier ones off a 750 iirc) then these are my only options.

Everything said and done I'd probably pick Delkevic given the dubious history of Black Widow/Sandy Spares headers being made of cheese.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never bought a full system for any bike, so invalid opinion, but I'm the sort that would either go for a cheap but decent legal system like a motad to keep a working bike going to earn it's keep.

Or I'd want full akrapovic or Yoshimura etc etc, thats had loads of dyno development to show that other than sexy welds and horny headers, that I'm actually getting more of something too. Im not into pipes with removable baffles as im suspicious that they are not as good for performance with the baffles in or out.
I'd want quiet and cheap legal zorsts, or otherwise big not for road use letters all over a system that costs many times more.
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wots
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Or I'd want full akrapovic or Yoshimura etc etc, thats had loads of dyno development to show that other than sexy welds and horny headers, that I'm actually getting more of something too. Im not into pipes with removable baffles as im suspicious that they are not as good for performance with the baffles in or out.
I'd want quiet and cheap legal zorsts, or otherwise big not for road use letters all over a system that costs many times more.
So you WOULDN'T buy an akrapovic or Yoshimura either because they come with removable baffles.

Your point seems pointless.

FYI I had an RS-9 full system on the other identical bike (when I had it). The Black Widow was much better sounding, not really any louder but a deeper tone. It also looked better. And it was well under half the price, for not half the exhaust.
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Az
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had Sandy's Spares down pipes on my Bandit 6, no complaints from me. They'd been on the bike for about 5 years too according to receipts IIRC. They could have done with a polish, but they functioned perfectly fine.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe things have changed recently, but I remember reading silencer tests in magazines for bikes like GSXR's and fireblades, where they tested say 20+ cans and both road legal and race cans, along with some removable baffle ones, I think laser exhausts were one example of these.

They found predicted results with the race cans, basically all straight through tubes giving near enough the same power and performance increases.

But some of the legal cans made less power than the OEM silencer, as did some of the removable baffled cans. They put this down to crude and simple design without proper testing, that was not the best for gas flow, and could look good, yet offer poor performance and some times alot of noise for no power gain.

I think making more noise to go slower is about the worst outcome you could have for an exhaust system. It wouldn't matter if it was a 10th of the price of the rest, or if the silencer tip was encrusted in diamonds, it's not giving you anything worth having, and I'd never accept more noise than std if it wouldn't make the bike go quicker either.
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venari
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 26 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I think making more noise to go slower is about the worst outcome you could have for an exhaust system. It wouldn't matter if it was a 10th of the price of the rest, or if the silencer tip was encrusted in diamonds, it's not giving you anything worth having, and I'd never accept more noise than std if it wouldn't make the bike go quicker either.

I agree with you on the point about more noise, less power being the worst result of a new exhaust but if you're on a budget and need a replacement then this option might "give you something worth having".

I'm not a fan of loud exhausts either - and before you jump to any conclusions about me being an old dude, I'm a 25 year old single guy who rides sports bikes for pleasure.

BUT, even these budget exhausts are pushing on close to the value of the bike I'm fitting it to.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 06:10 - 27 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Maybe things have changed recently, but I remember reading silencer tests in magazines for bikes like GSXR's and fireblades, where they tested say 20+ cans and both road legal and race cans, along with some removable baffle ones, I think laser exhausts were one example of these.

They found predicted results with the race cans, basically all straight through tubes giving near enough the same power and performance increases.

But some of the legal cans made less power than the OEM silencer, as did some of the removable baffled cans. They put this down to crude and simple design without proper testing, that was not the best for gas flow, and could look good, yet offer poor performance and some times alot of noise for no power gain.

I think making more noise to go slower is about the worst outcome you could have for an exhaust system. It wouldn't matter if it was a 10th of the price of the rest, or if the silencer tip was encrusted in diamonds, it's not giving you anything worth having, and I'd never accept more noise than std if it wouldn't make the bike go quicker either.


I'm assuming this is the reason he is looking to replace the pipes:

https://s31.postimg.org/xt7rpyc3f/GEDC1980.jpg

venari wrote:
BUT, even these budget exhausts are pushing on close to the value of the bike I'm fitting it to.


The sandy ones will be fine. Ring them and see if they will flog it you minus the can if you already have a 2" slip on.
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venari
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PostPosted: 06:37 - 27 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your thinking temeluchus!

And I'm mildly impressed by your research skills.

I'll give them a call today on my lunch break and see what they can offer me.

V
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Old Thread Alert!

There is a gap of 1 year, 12 days between these two posts...

PenderB
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 09 Jul 2017    Post subject: Meh Reply with quote

Hey, I know this is an old thread, but thought it'd be the best place to post this as in searching for info on Black Widow exhausts this thread came up near the top of my searches.

I have a '08 Cbr125r, and wanted to make it a bit louder and (IMO improve the looks) Smile
I liked the looks of the Black Widow full exhaust for this bike, so I bought one, the 300mm carbon fiber full system.

First, Black Widow shipped using a different method than they advertise, UPS, which doesn't deliver where I live. This resulted in a couple weeks delay in delivery, not to mention UPS screwed up with the import, which was a large part of the delay. Black Widow 'customer support' could but, wouldn't and didn't do anything to help with this.

So after almost a month I finally got it. The package was super beat up, the header pipes were banging around loose, there was superficial damage to the headers, but nothing worth dealing with. The muffler itself was well packed and arrived fine.

UPS indicated they would refund the shipping due to their screwup in handling, but Black Widow and the sub-par shipping company they use, Parcel2go, couldn't be bothered, and as I wasn't the customer to UPS they couldn't refund me directly (they did refund the brokerage fees they collected from me).
Pretty poor service from Black Widow so far.

The quality of the header pipes is nice, and they fit well. The muffler is pretty nice, but the finish on the carbon fiber tip is not; the carbon fiber on the can is great, smooth and high gloss, but the tip has an uneven semi matte finish, which doesn't match the can (or the pics on Black Widow's site). When I contracted Black Widow about the finish on the tip they gave me the standard ‘variations in display' kind of line, and they try to represent them accurately, I could see what I was getting, etc. No support, no customer service.

The system's okay, the sound is decent, there's almost no difference between with or without the db killer.

I continued to email Black Widow about getting the shipping refunded, and they completely quit responding. That's their answer to customer service, ignore you.

Anyway, to wrap up my review (rant) of Black Widow; their product is okay at best (at least the headers were in my case, but not the muffler due to inconsistent quality in finish), their customer service is awful, and should you actually need to use their supposed warranty, good luck, I doubt they would help you at all.
Even if the product was perfect I wouldn't order from them again or recommend them due to their customer service.
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P.
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Header pipes? You mean pipe. You have 1.

Assume you live in somewhere other than the UK, muffler? really.. Wink
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PenderB
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 10 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The header from Black Widow is two pieces, hence 'pipes'.
Muffler, silencer, can, call it what you want, doesn't change the story.
I'm in Canada.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 264 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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