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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know why I want a no deal brexit. Simply because a no deal is the only way we the oiks will ever know what has actually been given away by our lord and masters who want to stay on the EU gravy train. It's the only way we will ever take back full control of everything from the EU.

Any 'deal' will involve ceding powers and decisions to the EU and that's the one thing that I really don't want.

And no deal means we can kick Val out. Mr. Green
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Important to understand is that the Irish ‘backstop’ to which Mrs May now objects totally is the one she agreed in December.


The European Union wrote:
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
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Val
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
You know why I want a no deal brexit. Simply because a no deal is the only way we the oiks will ever know what has actually been given away by our lord and masters who want to stay on the EU gravy train. It's the only way we will ever take back full control of everything from the EU.

Any 'deal' will involve ceding powers and decisions to the EU and that's the one thing that I really don't want.

And no deal means we can kick Val out. Mr. Green


First you can't kick me out mate because I'm British now Laughing

Second I also want a no deal, because I will get nice profit from that. I invest my money in Euros so pound falling down more is a good news.

Third if you think that the oiks can have any power you really believe in unicorns. Best case scenario no deal is poor people get poorer and the more masters/asset strippers coming to the UK to buy stuff for peanuts.

Brexit is not some kind of revolution of the oiks mate - its completely the other way around. It's tax evaders binge.

I bet you can't list a single benefit for you personally if there is no deal. No sovereignity don't counts Very Happy I want real things that can be measured.

I can list for you few losses regarding your next trip to Europe with motorcycle.

So yes Brexit no deal is great if you are rich and have money to invest during crisis.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
I also want a no deal, because I will get nice profit from that. I invest my money in Euros so pound falling down more is a good news.... So yes Brexit no deal is great if you are rich and have money to invest during crisis.

Laughing Straight out of the Itchy playbook. The old, "I have succeeded in life and will profit however Brexit turns out, therefore I am unbiased, objective and will now tell you poor fools my truths." Not very endearing, or convincing, but a good wind up.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jOlbOZ9w84I
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Val
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 22 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I am unbiased, objective and will now tell you poor fools my truths.


Never ever said I am unbiased. On the contrary I am passionately biased UK to be part of the EU team.

Completely agree about objectiveness though Thumbs Up

Sorry if anybody feels offended and/or fool by me posting facts Laughing

I am also very humble man...
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 23 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Laughing Straight out of the Itchy playbook. The old, "I have succeeded in life and will profit however Brexit turns out, therefore I am unbiased, objective and will now tell you poor fools my truths." Not very endearing, or convincing, but a good wind up.


Laughing Is that the defence you've resorted to?

That everything is a wind up? So when are you going to give that list of tangible benefits? And how great it will be? Me I got wealthier without any action purely because my assets are not in GBP. I didn't put in any shorts.

The most interesting question this raises however is why you are so confident that ruthless people that is both inside AND outside will not exploit the situation to their own benefit and to your detriment?

We have seen since the start of time that humans are ruthless and will exploit the weakness of others for their own personal gain. There have been few if any exceptions to this.

This isn't a statement of intent it is merely the truth. Why will people be nice to you? Were the British nice to the Qing in their time of need? The Irish in their famines?

Were the Americans nice and kind of the Russians post USSR collapse? No they were flooded with con-men looking to exploit the situation and make a quick buck.

When people and nations are weak the exploitation has been great. I could talk about about the final days of the Qing, or post ww2 Germany, Japan post WW2. Many can't really relate to this.

What we do have in living memory is Cyprus. It's a modern 1st world state. When the banking system fell over lots of vultures descended to take advantage of the chaos in the short term and the people got rinsed in the longer term.

The 2008 crash lots of vultures sprang up after that for a while.

What makes you think other vultures won't take advantage of the situation for their own benefit?

Consider even 'friendly' nations like Austalia, NZ and Canada have rejected the WTO schedules as they see an opportunity to enrich themselves.

Your own government? The UK government blocked tariffs on steel. Why would they protect you?
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 24 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
What we do have in living memory is Cyprus. It's a modern 1st world state. When the banking system fell over lots of vultures descended to take advantage of the chaos in the short term and the people got rinsed in the longer term.


To add to that, many Cypriot politicians, including the president, were obviously tipped off by the Troika, and moved massive amounts of money out of Cyprus in the weeks leading up to the "hair cut".
For those that don't know what the "haircut" or "bail in" involved, any cash deposits over 100,000 euros were subject to a 50% levy.
This applied to businesses and as well, people who were in the process of buying property and had money deposited with solicitors for the purchase lost out big time!
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 24 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Laughing Straight out of the Itchy playbook. The old, "I have succeeded in life and will profit however Brexit turns out, therefore I am unbiased, objective and will now tell you poor fools my truths." Not very endearing, or convincing, but a good wind up.


Laughing Is that the defence you've resorted to?

That everything is a wind up?

Not everything, but when you claim to be unbiased and objective yet you post selective stats, comments and sources aimed only at criticising the referendum result that looks more like a wind-up.

Itchy wrote:
So when are you going to give that list of tangible benefits? And how great it will be? Me I got wealthier without any action purely because my assets are not in GBP. I didn't put in any shorts.

No need for a list, and I've explained before. I recognise we're in for a tough time economically in the short and even the mid-term, unlike some, but I simply don't like the ever-expanding scope of the EU. I fear what it will become and I want us out. I even think Brexit may reign in the EU's ambition, which would be a good thing from my point of view.

Itchy wrote:
The most interesting question this raises however is why you are so confident that ruthless people that is both inside AND outside will not exploit the situation to their own benefit and to your detriment?

I'm not. Of course they will, they'll try like they always have. That's not unique to the current circumstances. In fact it's nature.

Itchy wrote:
When people and nations are weak the exploitation has been great. I could talk about about the final days of the Qing, or post ww2 Germany, Japan post WW2. Many can't really relate to this.

"To the victor the spoils," but in fact the two world wars put the UK in huge debt (to the USA). Rationing ended in Germany in 1950 but in the UK it continued for another 4 years, while Germany was to some extent rebuilt by the allies (perhaps learning the lessons of the 1918 Armistice).

Itchy wrote:
Your own government? The UK government blocked tariffs on steel. Why would they protect you?

More chance of reigning in a UK government than a remote and disparate EU one. The "bail-in" which Suntan Sid refers to was the first implementation of an EU decision which the UK apparently voted for, but I wasn't aware of it as a policy until much later. I suspect if the UK had independently tried to put it into law it would have been closely scrutinised at home and ruled out, but it seemed to have been signed off unseen by the rest of us.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
No need for a list, and I've explained before. I recognise we're in for a tough time economically in the short and even the mid-term, unlike some


This makes you an outlier that you acknowledge it.

There are still an awful lot of people who say it will be great yet can't say why.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might actually be worth getting a thread going looking into how to offset potential negative outcomes?

Polarbear wrote:
You know why I want a no deal brexit. Simply because a no deal is the only way we the oiks will ever know what has actually been given away by our lord and masters who want to stay on the EU gravy train.


Come on madude. These fucks are the only ones who won't get their pants pulled down in a worse case scenario. They will already be shifted and hedged before any shit hits the proverbial fan.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start another thread cos you don't like how this one is going? Laughing Laughing
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Sload
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Start another thread cos you don't like how this one is going? Laughing Laughing


No you muppet, a thread about financial planning to accommodate lol
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vallage has provided financial advice for Brexit. Thumbs Up
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Sload
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 25 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh but he screeches too much Thumbs Up
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Val
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PostPosted: 01:35 - 26 Sep 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh-oh Laughing

Can't wait to see tomorrow's Daily Heil Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:

Angela Merkel today rejected Theresa May's Chequers Brexit plan


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/angela-merkel-rejects-theresa-may-brexit-plans-1-5709830
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 03 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, for God's sake. Go away and read the bloody thing. Stop picking up fag-ends and getting the wobbles.

Take the first sentence of the BBC's "condensed version" you point out, which is nearly three months old:

"The UK will "maintain a common rulebook for all goods" with the EU, including agricultural products, after Brexit."

And compare it to reality (chapter 1, 7 (a) ); read the whole sentence. You will see that they've missed something out.


What pisses me off is the utter ignorance around, coupled with a seeming unwillingness to even consider that the BBC's, the EU's, the ERG's, the remainers' or the second cousin's dog's owner's friend that they met down the pub, Uncle Tom Cobley and all might not actually be telling the truth because they have their own interests.

If the Chequers' White Paper is too elusive, it's here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725288/The_future_relationship_between_the_United_Kingdom_and_the_European_Union.pdf

Edit: I re-open this to add:

Quote:
There's 100 pages of this deal. Does anyone yet have a concise description of the main points or is it all this vaguely worded as not to sound like the nearest thing to still being controlled by the EU, which May could get away with?


There cannot be a "concise description of the main points". The White Paper is a policy document, setting out proposals for legislation[1]. It *IS* concise. The points are mostly interlinked. Look at the example above, where the BBC mislead. Forget about the conspiracy theorists, "we'll be controlled by the EU, May's lying" etc. We're leaving, and Chequers' is a good deal for us if it can be rammed through/up/around the EU naysayers.

[1] Some legislation based on Chequers' has already successfully transited parliament, received Royal Assent and is now law, you will be aware.
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 03 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:

And you've read the 100 pages have you? Feck off have you. Tell us what the key points are then.


Don't you believe it's possible to read 100 pages?

For someone with such strongly held opinions and wishes for Brexit I would have assumed you read it. better to argue from a point of semi-ignorance than to furnish yourself with the facts? hard to see how, but so far it really seems to be working for you.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 03 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Oh, for God's sake. Go away and read the bloody thing. Stop picking up fag-ends and getting the wobbles.

Take the first sentence of the BBC's "condensed version" you point out, which is nearly three months old:

"The UK will "maintain a common rulebook for all goods" with the EU, including agricultural products, after Brexit."

And compare it to reality (chapter 1, 7 (a) ); read the whole sentence. You will see that they've missed something out.


What pisses me off is the utter ignorance around, coupled with a seeming unwillingness to even consider that the BBC's, the EU's, the ERG's, the remainers' or the second cousin's dog's owner's friend that they met down the pub, Uncle Tom Cobley and all might not actually be telling the truth because they have their own interests.

If the Chequers' White Paper is too elusive, it's here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725288/The_future_relationship_between_the_United_Kingdom_and_the_European_Union.pdf

Edit: I re-open this to add:

Quote:
There's 100 pages of this deal. Does anyone yet have a concise description of the main points or is it all this vaguely worded as not to sound like the nearest thing to still being controlled by the EU, which May could get away with?


There cannot be a "concise description of the main points". The White Paper is a policy document, setting out proposals for legislation[1]. It *IS* concise. The points are mostly interlinked. Look at the example above, where the BBC mislead. Forget about the conspiracy theorists, "we'll be controlled by the EU, May's lying" etc. We're leaving, and Chequers' is a good deal for us if it can be rammed through/up/around the EU naysayers.

[1] Some legislation based on Chequers' has already successfully transited parliament, received Royal Assent and is now law, you will be aware.


The problem is that Theresa is seeking to renegotiate Britain's membership of the EU, but the referendum result was to leave. In the referendum the other choice was not "remain", it was "renegotiate Britain's membership of the EU". It was a vote on a deal, and the people said NO.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 03 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chequers in summary is this:

Britain is an independent sovereign state. We are taking back control of [policy]. In its place we will seek a new agreement which reimplements 80% of [policy] under a different name.

Almost every provision begins with a tough statement on opting out, then follows with a more subtle, complex statement ambiguously talking about a "sovereign choice" to, in short, opt back in.


For example, page 10:
The UK will no longer be part of the EU’s common policies on foreign, defence, security, justice and home affairs. Instead,

the Government is proposing a new security partnership that maintains close cooperation. the Government’s vision includes:

1. maintaining existing operational capabilities that the UK and the EU deploy. ability for law enforcement agencies to share
critical data and information. practical cooperation to investigate serious criminality and terrorism – cooperating on the basis of existing tools and measures.
2. participation by the UK in key agencies, including Europol and Eurojust. share expertise and information. officers and legal experts working in close proximity. – accepting the rules of these agencies and contributing to their costs. EU police offers still able to police in the UK
3. coordination on foreign policy, defence and development issues. n.b currently coordinate means subordinate i.e we implement their policy

4. annual negotiations on access to waters and the sharing of fishing So we must negotiate with the EU for permission to catch our own fish. Status quo renamed

Another page, at random: Page 32 (actually the substance is on page 33):

1.4.1 Ending free movement of people tough talk
Free movement of people will end as the UK leaves the EU. tough talk

1.4.2 Future mobility arrangements
the UK will make a sovereign choice in a defined number of areas to seek reciprocal mobility arrangements with the EU. and then opts back in
reciprocal arrangements that:
+ support businesses to provide services
+ travel freely, without a visa, for tourism and temporary business activity
etc Status quo!
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 03 Oct 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
There cannot be a "concise description of the main points".

Of course there can.


That's one of the reasons I normally treat you as write-only.

I wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
There cannot be a "concise description of the main points". The White Paper is a policy document, setting out proposals for legislation. It *IS* concise.


.
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