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| Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing
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Super Spammer
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 Posted: 15:50 - 03 Oct 2018  Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: | There cannot be a "concise description of the main points". The White Paper is a policy document, setting out proposals for legislation. It *IS* concise. |
Great. Lovely bit of white noise. I don't want a concise description, I want bullet points.
Now explain why can't the bullet points on trade, immigration and EU laws and legislation have not been made public.
Saying it's too complicated is not an answer, neither is "have you read it". I shouldn't need to. The PM is telling us its a good deal without telling us what it entails and Boris and others are telling us it's not leaving the EU, just changing a few ways that we're still part of it.
Are you saying the document does not contain these facts, or is it that May knows it does not deliver what people thought they were getting, so wont provide clear points on the big 3 subjects?
Is it a good deal? Is it actually leaving the EU? Does anyone outside of government know the answer?
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Super Spammer
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| Posted: 15:54 - 03 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: |
The referendum result was indeed to leave. We are leaving, on March 29th. at 11 p.m.
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Oh really? What, you mean "leaving" as in "leaving" or "leaving" as in "still doing many of the things we do whilst still under EU control, but still calling it "leaving".
Please explain your definition of "leaving". I expect it to be more than just calling it "leaving", I actually expect us to "leave".
Many of the points picked up in the Chequers deal so far have sounded like leaving, until you read on and then realise what's being put in has a get out clause, meaning staying as is now.
Such as abolishing freedom of movement, unless people say they're coming here to find a job or just visit.
Or such as abolishing the EU's control over law's and regulations, but keeping in mind that we must keep our laws in line with EU laws and regulations.
The whole fecking thing is just a load of sound bites pretending to leave, when the actual substance is nothing of the sort and pretty much carrying on as things are now.
It's rebranding EU membership as "leaving" the EU. Nothing much more.
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| Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah
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Riejufixing
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Riejufixing
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| Posted: 16:14 - 03 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Im-a-Ridah wrote: | Almost every provision begins with a tough statement on opting out, then follows with a more subtle, complex statement ambiguously talking about a "sovereign choice" to, in short, opt back in. |
No. To pick just the first thing that you imposed your dogmatic thinking on, although it's only a part of the preamble to the Paper (in the executive summary):
| Im-a-Ridah wrote: | 2. participation by the UK in key agencies, including Europol and Eurojust. share expertise and information. officers and legal experts working in close proximity. – accepting the rules of these agencies and contributing to their costs. EU police offers still able to police in the UK |
We participate in them. It does not mean we are fully part of them. To learn more, you need to read further. Chapter 2 (Security Partnership) explains more. If you wwant to cut to the chase, go to item 55 on page 66, although you really should look at the document generally, and go through to 57. |
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Im-a-Ridah
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| Posted: 16:14 - 03 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: | | Im-a-Ridah wrote: | The problem is that Theresa is seeking to renegotiate Britain's membership of the EU, but the referendum result was to leave. In the referendum the other choice was not "remain", it was "renegotiate Britain's membership of the EU". It was a vote on a deal, and the people said NO. |
She is not "renegotiating". Mr Cameron tried that, and got nothing.
The referendum result was indeed to leave. We are leaving, on March 29th. at 11 p.m.
The "deal" is a separate thing. I'm not going to argue with you, or that other chap, who I notice did not comment on my bit about what the BBC said in his referenced article. As I said, it's all in the White Paper. Like that, "Perhaps he didn't read it". |
Absolutely! Britain is leaving the European Union on March 29th! It will cease to be a member of the EU and will take up its rightful place as a strong powerful independent country!
In keeping with Britain's commitment to ensuring continuity of government, trade and standards a new agreement will be negotiated between the EU and Britain in which Britain will, as a sovereign, independent nation state with a very big willy, continue to implement the spirit and substance of policy and regulatory aspects of mutual benefit as defined by the commonly agreed proposal by EU with some small amendments where the strong independent sovereign state is permitted to have such amendments on a take it or reword it basis. |
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Super Spammer
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| Posted: 16:15 - 03 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: | | mpd72 CPT wrote: |
Great. Lovely bit of white noise. I don't want a concise description, I want bullet points. |
You don't want a concise description, you want breast-feeding. That's why, as I said, you're on your own. |
You can't provide them can you?
Your answer to everything is "I'd love to explain it, but it's too complicated", when really it means "Like everyone else, I haven't a fucking clue, I'm just trying to sound clever".
Do you have an opinion on it, or is your position up there on that fence as far as your intellect goes? 
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Im-a-Ridah
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Im-a-Ridah
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| Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche...
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| Posted: 09:28 - 04 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Monkeywrencher wrote: | | mpd72 CPT wrote: |
It would be nice if the public could have a basic set of what the deal entails on the major points, instead of burying it in bullshit and expecting the public and other members of government to just trust Remainer May to deliver the Leave people expect. |
Genuine question, Have any members of the government or the opposition for that matter complained that they don't understand what's in the chequers deal? I've not been hearing it in the soundbites etc. |
Has anyone openly debated it? Why aren't the proposals being chewed through on a daily basis by the likes of Newsnight etc?
As this is what May is offering or nothing at all, I can't understand why nobody seems to be talking about it in anything but name.
The parts I've seen are exactly what a few of us are mentioning on here - In typical May style, it all sounds like what people want to hear, but the actual small print has caveats, which actually make the proposals nothing like the headlines she reels out.
Is it that the mainly remain MSM have realised it's not really Brexit in anything but name, so are keeping hush about it, as it suits their agenda? Why is something this important not having it's key points debated in the media?
As far as I can see, on the key points, very little will change under this proposed deal. With the mumblings coming from the EU that the deal still isn't acceptable to them, they're either playing a clever game and getting the UK public to think it really is a good deal, or they're being an arse for the sake of it.
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| Val |
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Val
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| Posted: 21:08 - 07 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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Let me post that again for the hard of reading. Note unicorns and Chequers deal are imaginary animals.
Also nobody is negotiating trade deals at the moment. What has been negotiated is the Withdrawal agreement and NI backstop solution.
The trade deal actuall negotiations will start when the UK is 3rd country after 29 March 2019 as per EU guidelines which I have posted here about zillion times already.
Here are all the options for the said future trade deal which needs to be completed until Dec 2020 when the transition agreement will finish:
https://i.imgur.com/po0wzmY.jpg
As Ford has once said UK can have any deal as soon as it is black or made in France:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/07/macron-woos-uk-car-firms-over-private-dinner
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Posted: 21:20 - 07 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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Boo fucking hoo.
There's no need to repost stuff, we heard you the first time but didn't bothered replying because we don't care about stuff you copied & pasted.
How do you know that nobody is negotiating trade deals at the moment?
Stop harping on about no deal, go read the news to find out the latest.  |
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Riejufixing
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| Posted: 22:32 - 07 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Val wrote: | Let me post that again for the hard of reading. Note unicorns and Chequers deal are imaginary animals.
Also nobody is negotiating trade deals at the moment. What has been negotiated is the Withdrawal agreement and NI backstop solution.
The trade deal actuall negotiations will start when the UK is 3rd country after 29 March 2019 as per EU guidelines which I have posted here about zillion times already.
Here are all the options for the said future trade deal which needs to be completed until Dec 2020 when the transition agreement will finish:
https://i.imgur.com/po0wzmY.jpg
As Ford has once said UK can have any deal as soon as it is black or made in France:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/07/macron-woos-uk-car-firms-over-private-dinner |
You really will believe any old shit the Guardian tells you, won’t you? Ever thought about thinking for yourself, not what you’re told to by far left papers?
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| Diggs |
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Diggs
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Posted: 00:22 - 08 Oct 2018  Post subject: |
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Jesus.... What a load of old tut. BNP are you honestly suggesting that you would like an opinion on what is being negotiated, because that sounds a tad close to a (dare I say it...) vote......
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 09:11 - 08 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | | Diggs wrote: | Jesus.... What a load of old tut. BNP are you honestly suggesting that you would like an opinion on what is being negotiated, because that sounds a tad close to a (dare I say it...) vote...... |
I'd quite happily have a vote on chequers or no deal. That's fine.
However remain cannot be an option on the voting slip, we've done that one already. |
To be fair, Chequers isn't really leaving the EU, so shouldn't be an option either. We voted to leave the EU, not only partially leave it but still be tied to it's laws, regulations, single market and fees.
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| Ste |
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Ste
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Posted: 09:20 - 08 Oct 2018  Post subject: |
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Chequers deal isn't going to happen which is a good thing since it's a half arsed effort at Brexit.
A more agreeable deal will be reached.
We're already had a referendum about Brexit so let's just get on with deporting Val. |
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| Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing
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| Val |
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Val
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| Posted: 13:53 - 08 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Ste wrote: |
A more agreeable deal will be reached.
We're already had a referendum about Brexit so let's just get on with deporting Val. |
| Quote: | "I'm moderate, but now seeing how neo-fascit Brexit destroys NHS, people are literally dying,we lost £500m a week,& we'll lose all our freedoms in Europe, Scotland and NI,& how all brextremists like Mogg money run abroad, I've decided to support Brexit."
~Said UK patriot never.
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| Posted: 14:12 - 08 Oct 2018 Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: | | mpd72 CPT wrote: | To be fair, Chequers isn't really leaving the EU |
To be fair, though, as you have said, you haven't read it and don't understand it. |
I've read parts of it, which is clearly more than you, even though you're claiming some kind of smug superiority on the subject just for posting links to the document, you haven't read in full either.
My point was that nobody is making a clear simple breakdown of the 3 or so major points. Either no fucker understands it, or it's so vague that it's open to interpretation.
A few on here have made some very valid points on parts of it and it's wording, you're not one of them.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 195 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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