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YR5 Upgrade project

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Forced
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 04 Sep 2016    Post subject: YR5 Upgrade project Reply with quote

My old faithful Yamaha YR5 has been on the road for the past 8 seasons with very little in the way of issues except an oil pump failure (my fault for fitting the wrong replacement pump) and a dead alternator (rotor swapped for spare, HVC Cycle modern reg / rec fitted). I couple of years ago i ran into ground clearance issues on the road chasing my mate on his KR1S. I then started getting into doing classic trackdays on it which highlighted the issue further. I like riding it on track a lot, having proper handlebars and weighing next to nothing makes it great fun, however cultivating a riding style that has the ground clearance issues in mind is ultimatley limiting.

Exhibit A - Cadwell's mickey mouse chicane. https://youtu.be/DYg6Nwsjvqo?t=5m8s

Exhibit B - Cadwell - Park Corner.
https://youtu.be/DYg6Nwsjvqo?t=14m35s

Current setup is original footpegs and vintage Allspeed pipes which cost the grand sum of 20 ponds, RD barrels and carbs with cut down airbox and K & N drop in filter (no lid), 220 mains, 27.5 pilots, standard ignition with aftermarket coils.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-04/265E23DD-929A-4AB4-9179-C498A89F4DA8_zps6xhzik1h.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/Cadwell%20Park%2011th%20and%2012th%20July%202015/DSC_9624_zpspgjncirx.jpg~original

First priority is to increase ground clearance, so a large credit card bill later and we have the following bits

HVC Cycle Rearset kit.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/F1C0410C-1BFC-4EA0-AE97-142277661F26_zpsorbugdap.jpg~original

Very, very expensive especially after import tax but top quality piece of kit.

Jim Lomas GP Style pipes.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/6C5BCB1A-A530-4341-9B0F-DA41CA5A26E6_zpsdoazxvx9.jpg~original

Again not cheap but quality. These chambers go under the sump and require removal of the centre stand and also possibly the stand lugs. Next job is to do a test fit of the pipes to see exactly what mods will be needed before the frame is sent for stripping and powder coating (it may also be that the side stand arrangement needs tweaking).

I'm also going for a power increase and less weight - plans are as follows.

- 28mm Carbs with K & N on standard Y-Boot (Standard carbs leak from float bowl joints due to distorted bodies, temporary fix with kawabond).

- O-Ring head conversion and custom squish band

- Ported barrels (not too extreme so no changing port heights, just widening and matching)

- Convert to premix (lighter and aftermarket carbs don't have injector points)

- Possibly source a 6 speed gearbox

- Fix the clocks (flappy needles due to tired mechanisms)

I'd like in the region of 50-60 bhp which combined with the minimal weight should make it able to outrun most 4T 400's in a straight line, coupled with the ground clearance improvements i should end up with a capable track tool which doesn't deviate too much from the general spirit of the original bike.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 04 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing the finished bike!

Mind you, you probably need to give the bloke behind you, (in the photo), the contact details for the rearsets, he looks like he needs then more than you! Wink
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Sean.S
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 05 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the look of two stroke pipes like these, they should make the world of difference to the appearance of the bike Smile
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 05:50 - 05 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks wicked,
everyone loves a bit of smokey fun,
let me know if you want to sell the allspeed pipes, id take them off your hands
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Forced
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PostPosted: 06:36 - 05 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmnz wrote:
looks wicked,
everyone loves a bit of smokey fun,
let me know if you want to sell the allspeed pipes, id take them off your hands


Yeah the Allspeeds will be up for sale once i've had chance to test fit the JL pipes. The are a bit rough but look ok with a fresh coat of BBQ paint.
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 05 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is very nice mate Thumbs Up Look forward to seeing the finished result.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 11 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well i was hoping to test fit the JL pipes so I could work out what other mods would be needed to stands and stuff before blasting and powder coating commences. Unfortunately it isn't going to happen, the centre stand has to come off completely to get clearance for the chambers, I know from past experience the pin is seized solid so I'm going to have to strip the bike then chop it off with a grinder. I think stripping the thing down can be done in a day with some application so that's pencilled in for next weekend. I also need to thing about ordering more bits of HVC Cycle in the States....
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Forced
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 17 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

So got all ragey and pulled most of it apart this afternoon, probably did a bit much as I'm recovering from a chronic chest infection and now feel like shit again Sick http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/81D03D86-67A0-4BAB-985F-ECB689205B48_zpsbilkgrv3.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/F8DFC3A4-CC61-4D1C-9AB9-B7078C1A9231_zps1vtdhrvz.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/0CD5FC8C-BC48-4187-B5AD-D35E302EEA5E_zpsxnr4pkde.jpg

Engine out, all electrical gubbins off and cosmetic bits gone. Just the rolling chassis to break down when I can muster the energy. As is par for the course it's pretty easy to work on although there are some wiring oddities in the headlamp which I might have forgotten about when it eventually goes back together.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 19 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exciting times ahead! Thumbs Up

Jim's pipes look the business too, and I like seeing more people go for stainless steel, as there's still all sorts of ancient mythology on the net about the worth of stainless expansion chambers too.

I'm a wimp, and would have been spending out on a modern spec twin disc front brake for it, way before the ground clearance and power hunting. But I'm guessing its either a very effective drum brake set up, or it just needs big balls to ride on track? Laughing
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Forced
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 19 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Exciting times ahead! Thumbs Up

Jim's pipes look the business too, and I like seeing more people go for stainless steel, as there's still all sorts of ancient mythology on the net about the worth of stainless expansion chambers too.

I'm a wimp, and would have been spending out on a modern spec twin disc front brake for it, way before the ground clearance and power hunting. But I'm guessing its either a very effective drum brake set up, or it just needs big balls to ride on track? Laughing


The front drum is very very effective. Powerful enough to howl the front tyre on that high friction shit they lay near traffic lights. Remember the bike weighs cock all as well. Major expense ahead, I think a year is a sensible time frame to achieve the required result.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree on that front too. I think the new pipe, carb, reed block and ignition for my bike with all the setting up and the little bits like jets, clips, gaskets etc will see me just over £1k.

I'm about £500 in on a tuned KMX200 top end kit too, and I'm hoping the bottom end will be ok next summer for the big bore to go on.

Nice to have a end goal and a line you intend to stop at, but even then things seem to get way more expensive and complicated that it sounds on a shopping list spec sheet.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

One expense I can't avoid is getting the wheels refurbished. Probably be looking at £300 per wheel. It's working out the best order to do things in.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 30 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little bit of progress this weekend.

Modified frame to accept the expansion chambers by cutting off the centre stand and lugs and filing them in the scrap bin.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/B8A81B95-5A76-41F3-8BD1-F2D9CBEB0BA3_zpsp2tjms9c.jpg~original

Tart up what's left with a flap disc and the frame is ready to be blasted and powdercoated.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/52851E11-59E2-4C85-BEFF-CD3201275126_zpsyk5vgk0g.jpg~original

A friend of mine is preparing a 2MA TZR for YPM racing and we noted the carbs might be suitable for duty on the 350. I was going to buy a new set of VM28's but at nearly 100 quid each i relish the possibility of saving ponds. So we took his spare carb bodies and inserted Rod A into slot B...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/97B67FC8-5F69-4478-ADE5-24EF96614142_zpsnqa9j6gl.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/8C7DCBFD-FE96-4FF1-82A1-8AD8770C7114_zpsdyagtuue.jpg~original

They fit the rubbers fine, bit tight to the cases but a definite option so I'm looking for a complete set. Only question is the intake side but one worry at a time.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/CBF11122-E812-4F10-82C8-EB3218E3547C_zpsalmy5uuo.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/FA1C32C2-33A2-4127-A393-7AB9463743EE_zpsgr35s2cm.jpg~original

Combustion and overall top end condition is very good, expecially considering the abuse it's had in the 7 years since i was last inside.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/CBF11122-E812-4F10-82C8-EB3218E3547C_zpsalmy5uuo.jpg~original

In previous posts i've mentioned that seizing an aircooled stroker during the running in period is a good thing, here is signs of a minor nip i experienced about 200 miles into the life of this rebore. As soon as it cooled i thrashed it again, and have done ever since without a single issue.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/FA91521A-8DE6-4686-BFBF-22C60B6248EF_zpsoixk8i2w.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/44A6B70F-CF5E-4292-B3B2-EF435E5230E3_zpsqsokc4bx.jpg~original

I think i can put the reliability of this bike down to modern fully synthetic oil and getting the jetting spot on.

Found a few issues on splitting the cases. Minor ones are a tired gearbox bearing or two and a possible hairline crack in the top crankcase under the engine top mount / rev counter drive. No problem, i'll just get anything suspect welded over.

The big problem i found is with the crank. I knew that the lead weights in it were less than Halal last time i had the motor apart and 7 years of abuse on road and track hasn't helped.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/6423E37E-8123-4BCA-BFD3-317BA46B80AB_zpspgowzaho.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/5499854B-CAD4-4B9F-8948-136E3070D1BE_zpskvorcovu.jpg~original

On the move again and rubbing on rods / casings. In extreme circumstances they can seize the engine (sometimes while it's stopped) or coat the insides with lead dust leading to strangely fouled plugs.

The thing that's really knackered me up is the generator side crank web, it's rather Haram in that the main bearing is a sloppy fit on the journal. On a bone stock engine or a bike I was selling i'd use lots of bearing fit and ignore the problem but on a tuned engine I don't think putting this crank back into service is a good idea, especially as I'm expecting a large increase in revs at peak power. There isn't an easy or cheap solution to this, I can source a race crank complete from the states for $400 but it's a big investment.http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/D088D188-ADC0-4363-9B96-50B3B7776374_zpsz53zki9b.jpg~original
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent pics!

Those pistons and rings look in great condition too and the piston crowns show a nice burn and no signs of anything nasty going on.

The TM28's look to be an excellent fit on the VM26 intake manifolds, but VM26's, TM28's and TMX30's all use the same size carb to reedblock spigot. The fun I'll have on the TMX30 carb I have for my KMX is trying to link it up to the airbox hose.

Will you have that crank re-built or are you going for an aftermarket high specification race unit?

I wonder how much more rpm's the motor will want to turn with the Lomas pipes, and what a 350 is normally safe to rev to?
Does it share any parts with the TZ350 or have interchangeable stuff like rods/pistons/cranks etc?
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Forced
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
excellent pics!

Those pistons and rings look in great condition too and the piston crowns show a nice burn and no signs of anything nasty going on.

The TM28's look to be an excellent fit on the VM26 intake manifolds, but VM26's, TM28's and TMX30's all use the same size carb to reedblock spigot. The fun I'll have on the TMX30 carb I have for my KMX is trying to link it up to the airbox hose.

Will you have that crank re-built or are you going for an aftermarket high specification race unit?

I wonder how much more rpm's the motor will want to turn with the Lomas pipes, and what a 350 is normally safe to rev to?
Does it share any parts with the TZ350 or have interchangeable stuff like rods/pistons/cranks etc?


I've taken the plunge and ordered a Vito racing crank from the states, larger big / little ends and pegged on the centre webs, big investment but it gives a solid core to my engine project. TZ bits drop straight in but the crank has parallel roller mains so has to be used with the straight cut primary drive and dry clutch from the TZ (expensive and no kickstart). Safe revs on the OEM crank is a matter of who you ask, I generally go with the common opinion that 9.5k RPM is more than enough but some tuners have built earlystock bikes that rev to 10K+ without too much issues. From asking around I expect peak power somewhere around 10.5k with these pipes so mechanical strength is paramount.

Question is - can i finish it before it drains all my money and i starve to death?
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Dimerz
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really should have spent my 2 grand on a motorbike instead of building my own gaming computer...
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Forced
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Postman been today.

3 days to get from Nebraska USA to chez GT. Great service.

There's some boring shit like a sidestand relocation bracket and various stuff to do away with the automatic oiling, but the centre pieces are -

Y-boot and sponge filter. I was 99% certain this would fit the TZR carbs I plan to use but my old one was no longer very rubbery.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/1E72F563-C878-42A9-8C16-2BB764219571_zpsxx4frhw1.jpg~original

The main bit - Vito racing crank. No lead weights, larger big and little ends, silver plated roller cages. Pure sex.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/D868F881-7A26-4B6D-B1FB-4E6ADE3BC996_zpsgjziwk5i.jpg~original

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/FB386D99-AEE7-4A8F-9717-F366435B9741_zpsodolc4sm.jpg~original

I'm also planning on finding a small battery to stash somewhere so I can junk all the crap under the seat (sidepanel, battery tray, oil tank) in order to keep with the "for speed, add lightness" ethos.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

More goodies arrived from my friends across the pond.

VM28 racing carbs. I know I'd planned on using 2MA flatsides, but I needed a complete set and the prices eBay twats were asking for 25 year old carbs that might or might not be complete or terminally worn didn't inspire.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/D171976E-71D1-43EF-8A5C-E0AE05F71EA6_zpsxgqyflya.jpg

Powerdynamo ignition. I've used this before on my first aircooled 350 (I was the first in the U.K. to use it). Current incarnation is slightly improved, comes with switching relay and new rotor with keyway and sloped magnets (stops engine trying to run backwards).
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/CC31C645-C3C9-40CC-B883-5DFD8B5AB19C_zpsmq6r9wmm.jpg

I'm going to use the Powerdynamo to trigger a Zeeltronic DC CDI which will give me programmable ignition, rev limiter, revcounter / shift light and live mapping which will let me run a more radical tune on the barrels while keeping it rideable.
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 15 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The race crank looks pretty damn cool, but it's outdone by the sheer bling of a fat set of new race carbs and the trick ignition though! Muchos dollar I expect too!

Saying that brand new carbs is never a bad idea on on old bike, and should once dialled in allow nice crisp Carburation and be easier to set up than a possibly worn set of secondhand TZR carbs, that might well have been messed around with or butchered over the years.

That's why I went for a new carb to replace my 30year old Mikuni VM26 too.

You should see some healthy gains from all those bits once set up too! Thumbs Up
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Forced
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 15 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
The race crank looks pretty damn cool, but it's outdone by the sheer bling of a fat set of new race carbs and the trick ignition though! Muchos dollar I expect too!

Saying that brand new carbs is never a bad idea on on old bike, and should once dialled in allow nice crisp Carburation and be easier to set up than a possibly worn set of secondhand TZR carbs, that might well have been messed around with or butchered over the years.

That's why I went for a new carb to replace my 30year old Mikuni VM26 too.

You should see some healthy gains from all those bits once set up too! Thumbs Up


It's touch and go if I can finish it before I drop into poverty and starve to death.

There were several sets of TDR / TZR carbs on egay, none of which were very good and all were about £100 a pair or more. Currently I'm figuring out what to do about clocks etc.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 24 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeeltronic arrived today, fun ahead setting this beast up.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/BLUEX5/83834FA0-F3D4-4985-9275-C51DAB933ABC_zpsbnjtekcz.jpg

Taking a load of bits to my restoring / tuning guy this weekend and then it's a case of waiting for the work to be completed. Then the fun begins!
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:44 - 24 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be watching this with interest!
I presume the Zeeltronic is a DC ignition, so will be interested in seeing how it's wired in and also the setting up too.
Do you get a Base map with it, and or any suggested figures from JL for the advance curve?

I'm getting my local dyno centre to set up my Ignitec unit, but the guy doing my pipe has a simulated Base curve to suit the new exhaust, so hopefully it will need just fine tuning I hope.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 26 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I'll be watching this with interest!
I presume the Zeeltronic is a DC ignition, so will be interested in seeing how it's wired in and also the setting up too.
Do you get a Base map with it, and or any suggested figures from JL for the advance curve?

I'm getting my local dyno centre to set up my Ignitec unit, but the guy doing my pipe has a simulated Base curve to suit the new exhaust, so hopefully it will need just fine tuning I hope.


No baseline setting but i'm sure i'll find something online if need be when time comes. It'll be off to the dyno anyway. I was too hungover to take the frame and stuff in today so will do that on Friday.
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