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bhinso
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 Posted: 16:57 - 15 Jun 2022  Post subject: |
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Without referring to the internet for help, I don't believe Caesar brought Elephants with him in his 55BC invasion (we could be like Putin and call it an 'Expedition')
However, I do believe that Claudius (the emperor at the time of the 'official' occupation of 44AD) brought Elephants with him.
I'm sure Africans were around too. At the end of the day we're all descended from Africans.
Perhaps the issue here is that (unlike the Africans who built the wall), the North African Elephants died out  |
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A100man
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| Posted: 22:55 - 15 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Lenny Henry announced today that he thought it 'interesting' that you don't get many black/ people of colour at Glastonbury - equally I commented to my kids that the Aldi camping leaflet that showed people of colour in their promotional material was 'interesting' because you don't often see them camping..
now then, could there be a correlation?
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Bhud
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| Posted: 00:34 - 16 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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The camping thing I do think I understand... You've got to be out of your mind to want to go camping in Britain. 
I mean, camping seems normal only to those people who do it, and those people who do it were introduced to camping at an early age. The reason they were introduced to camping is (I ASSume) because it's a lot cheaper than hotels.
I did some bouldering as a kid, and the process involved camping over a weekend. I enjoyed myself but I also had anxiety about certain things, e.g. what are you supposed to do without access to a toilet (it was wild camping, in the forest of Fontainebleau). I felt that the teacher who led us on this trip was too critical, as well. I was constipated over that entire weekend. I had a special (advanced for the time) roll-up foam mattress which was a bit like a yoga mat. I'd bought the sleeping bag I had been instructed to buy. Plus the naff rucksack. The weather was good but I didn't sleep well. We'd been instructed in how to construct a toilet by digging a hole in the ground, and placing 2 logs across it. And how to construct a shower by piercing a plastic watter bottle hanging from a tree. Now transpose that experience over to a rainy weekend in, say, Cornwall, without an experienced camper and hiker like that schoolteacher who led us on the trip.
The whole business is a lot of stress and headache. It also requires real knowledge (what to buy, how to set it up and how to use it). It's a discipline in its own right. There are also social mores you either know or you don't know. For example, if there are toilets and showers on a campsite, does everyone take it in turns to use them? How are they kept clean? What privacy is there? All kinds of BS is involved in camping. Hotels are just so much easier and nicer, and the only downside is that you pay more.
So I'm afraid I'm in the anti-camping camp, on this one. Camping fully opens up the countryside - I understand that. However, you have to be well adept in all sorts of things in order to even contemplate it. |
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Nobby the Bastard
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 22:01 - 21 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Nobby the Bastard wrote: | Whatever you do don't watch QI on dave+1 at ten. Stephen talks about mummified remains found in Barnsley that are North Africans that were roman conscripts.
It'll really fuck up your world view. |
Not in the least. We know that people from all over the Roman empire came here as soldiers and slaves. But once again (  ), it was the Romans that had an effect on culture here, and even that didn't last when they left.
You try to make too much of it Nobby.
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arry
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| Posted: 06:24 - 22 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Nobby the Bastard wrote: | Whatever you do don't watch QI on dave+1 at ten. Stephen talks about mummified remains found in Barnsley that are North Africans that were roman conscripts.
It'll really fuck up your world view. |
You're proving my point to an extent, rather than disproving it to any extent.
A quick Google:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2428906/Mummies-Barnsley-Ancient-Egyptians-left-embalmed-bodies-Yorkshire.html
Key word, Egyptians.
For the last time, the Moors to which the two clowns doing their race baiting refer were almost certainly NOT black in the sense that they're trying sell the story on. Berbers had a significant European genetic heritage. Egyptians the same:
| Quote: | Population genetic analysis of nuclear DNA
On the nuclear level we merged the SNP data of our three ancient individuals with 2,367 modern individuals34,35 and 294 ancient genomes36 and performed PCA on the joined data set. We found the ancient Egyptian samples falling distinct from modern Egyptians, and closer towards Near Eastern and European samples (Fig. 4a, Supplementary Fig. 3, Supplementary Table 5). In contrast, modern Egyptians are shifted towards sub-Saharan African populations. |
The trick they pull here is to say Africa and everyone then thinks black. Sub-Saharan black. The black we see today as black.
The Moors at Hadrian's Wall were almost certainly not black. And the Egyptians found in Barnsley were almost certainly not black.
As to your question as to whether I consider people of North Africa not to be black - well:
| Quote: | The diverse peoples of North Africa are usually categorized along ethno-linguistic lines. In the Maghreb, where Arab and Berber identities are often integrated, these lines can be blurred. Some Berber-speaking North Africans may identify as "Arab" depending on the social and political circumstances, although substantial numbers of Berbers (or Imazighen) have retained a distinct cultural identity which in the 20th century has been expressed as a clear ethnic identification with Berber history and language. Arabic-speaking Northwest Africans, regardless of ethnic background, often identify with Arab history and culture and may share a common vision with other Arabs. This, however, may or may not exclude pride in and identification with Berber and/or other parts of their heritage. Berber political and cultural activists for their part, often referred to as Berberists, may view all Northwest Africans as principally Berber, whether they are primarily Berber- or Arabic-speaking.
Egyptians over the centuries have shifted their language from Egyptian (in its late form, varieties of Coptic) to modern Egyptian Arabic while retaining a sense of national identity that has historically set them apart from other people in the region. |
If you want to go up to an an Arab and call him a black man that's up to you fella 
Last edited by arry on 06:34 - 22 Jun 2022; edited 1 time in total |
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arry
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| Posted: 06:34 - 22 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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And on the DNA piece, here's one for Egyptians:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694
| Quote: | We found the ancient Egyptian samples falling distinct from modern Egyptians, and closer towards Near Eastern and European samples (Fig. 4a, Supplementary Fig. 3, Supplementary Table 5). In contrast, modern Egyptians are shifted towards sub-Saharan African populations. Model-based clustering using ADMIXTURE37 (Fig. 4b, Supplementary Fig. 4) further supports these results and reveals that the three ancient Egyptians differ from modern Egyptians by a relatively larger Near Eastern genetic component, in particular a component found in Neolithic Levantine ancient individuals36 (Fig. 4b). In contrast, a substantially larger sub-Saharan African component, found primarily in West-African Yoruba, is seen in modern Egyptians compared to the ancient samples.
Finally, we used two methods to estimate the fractions of sub-Saharan African ancestry in ancient and modern Egyptians. Both qpAdm35 and the f4-ratio test39 reveal that modern Egyptians inherit 8% more ancestry from African ancestors than the three ancient Egyptians do, which is also consistent with the ADMIXTURE results discussed above. Absolute estimates of African ancestry using these two methods in the three ancient individuals range from 6 to 15%, and in the modern samples from 14 to 21% depending on method and choice of reference populations (see Supplementary Note 1, Supplementary Fig. 6, Supplementary Tables 5–8). We then used ALDER40 to estimate the time of a putative pulse-like admixture event, which was estimated to have occurred 24 generations ago (700 years ago), consistent with previous results from Henn and colleagues16. While this result by itself does not exclude the possibility of much older and continuous gene flow from African sources, the substantially lower African component in our ∼2,000-year-old ancient samples suggests that African gene flow in modern Egyptians occurred indeed predominantly within the last 2,000 years. |
And for Berbers:
| Quote: | A 2005 study discovered a close mitochondrial link between Berbers and the Uralic speaking Saami of northern Scandinavia, and argues that Southwestern Europe and North Africa was the source of late-glacial expansions of hunter-gatherers that repopulated Northern Europe after a retreat south during the Last Glacial Maximum, and reveals a direct maternal link between those European hunter-gatherer populations and the Berbers.[28] With regard to Mozabite Berbers, one-third (33%) of Mozabite Berber mtDNAs have a Near Eastern ancestry, probably having arrived in North Africa ~50,000 years ago, and one-eighth (12.5%) have an origin in sub-Saharan Africa. Europe appears to be the source of many of the remaining sequences, with the rest (54.5%) having arisen either in Europe or in the Near East."[23]
According to the most recent and thorough study on Berber mtDNA from Coudray et al. 2008, which analysed 614 individuals from 10 different regions (Morocco (Asni, Bouhria, Figuig, Souss), Algeria (Mozabites), Tunisia (Chenini-Douiret, Sened, Matmata, Jerba) and Egypt (Siwa)),[29] the results may be summarized as follows:
Total West Eurasian lineages (H, HV, R0, J, M, T, U, K, N1, N2, X) : 80 percent
Total African lineages (L0, L1, L2, L3, L4, L5) : 20 percent
The Berber mitochondrial pool is characterized by an overall high frequency of Western Eurasian haplogroups, a markedly lower frequency of sub-Saharan L lineages, and a significant (but differential) presence of North African haplogroups U6 and M1. |
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Polarbear
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Posted: 09:21 - 22 Jun 2022  Post subject: |
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If BLM and co shout loud enough it must be true.
The one that really annoys me is David Olusoga. He's meant to be a bona fide historian but he doesn't half push some dubious theories (like Hadrian's wall) but being the BBC's darling for race and slavery hysteria he gets away with it.
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Bhud
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| Posted: 01:40 - 23 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Could someone explain to me why it's so important to weigh to a nicety the contribution of blacks to British history? There are, obviously, black Britons, and they're jolly nice people, for the most part. Berbers or Egyptians - were/are they considered black, or properly African, and why does it matter? This sort of controvery is surely a part of weaponised divide-and-conquer politics and it's like the Rwanda saga - you get politicians trying to enact laws and policies they know will be slapped down by the courts, in order to satisfy middle Britain (skilled trades, etc.) that they're standing up for them. Thus, getting elected all over again. However, the interests of industry (of which there is barely any) and the property ponzi (and I think we can't deny that we all benefit from it) lie in the polar opposite of popular sentiment. This government is a very smart one. |
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M.C
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| Posted: 01:59 - 23 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: | Could someone explain to me why it's so important to weigh to a nicety the contribution of blacks to British history? There are, obviously, black Britons, and they're jolly nice people, for the most part. |
The narrative they've pushed was BAMEs arrived post-WW2 to rebuild Britain, which is when 99% of ethnic minorities did arrive here. They only just unveiled a stature to the Windrush angels...
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1604B/production/_125578109_hi076883606.jpg
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61884535
The issue with that narrative is that would mean this country is definitely ours, even the most dishonest leftest realises people that have been here less than 100 years, don't have the same claim as those that have been here for thousands of years.
Hence why Cheddar man was black, Romans were black, and any example they find of a black person here pre-WW2 they amplify their achievements (there was a google doodle just the other day). They've always been here stupid, ignore the statue celebrating a few hundred people arriving like it's a monumental event...
Why is it always black people*? Probably because they've been one of the shittiest both economically and socially. It's the same reason shitlibs always defend Asian Muslims, who have similarly been shitty. The Chinese/East Asians for example they'll ignore and even sometimes attack as no one has much of an issue with them.
*other theories are a bit more tin-foil hatish, but it's worth considering why South Asians aren't being added to our history and celebrated in the same way |
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Ribenapigeon
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| Posted: 18:39 - 23 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Posted: 12:52 - 24 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Quite funny.
1) Just for fun (i.e. lying to conceal the man is having fun, illicit or otherwise) - I sympathise with this. "Why do you need a motorbike?" I dunno, why do you need more shoes? (*DANGER* do not try that line at home!)
2) It's in their DNA - ha! If anything it's the reverse. Women have less physicality than men (in evolutionary terms) so dripping poison in their man's ears is just something women do like breathing. (See Will Smith, Prince Harry.)
3) To win elections - yes, of course. All of those female politicians have never lied, no not never!
4) To test women - again universal between the sexes IMO, usually as part of an elaborate wind-up. From my experience women are much better at it.
5) To save energy - yeah, like point 1 sometimes it really not worth getting into details. Women on the other hand like to bore the socks off you "so you know Julie? Yeah you do! You met her at that wedding three years ago. Anyway, she met up with..." and that's when you want one of those fake caller apps 
6) Mental exercise - no, just no. Life [with a woman] is complicated enough!
7) As practice - basically point 6 again.
Truth is always the best policy, with anyone really. It's just than men and women are into different things and that can lead to a clash.
For example, one I heard the other day, if you give baby chimps a pile of toys the girls will pick the dolls and the boys will choose the cars "...and you don't see many chimps driving Hondas!" So the interest in people vs interest in things is baked into our ancestral DNA.
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One of the contributing factors to the collapse of the Roman Empire (or just the Western one if you want to get picky) is letting all and sundry become citizens.
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