Relatively new biker discovering best upgrade options

[Duffman]

Ive got an MT-09, great bike but the suspension is made of cheese. I had adjusted the preload/rebound and thought it was ok and ran it for a bit but the bike had a tendency to dive when pulling the front brake. Anyway i then tightened it up to almost full setting and its like a different bike.

Looks like I'm top of the suspension settings despite only being 84kg (13st4) @ 6ft. I think the springs were set for lighter rider. The difference the adjustment made would mean I'm happy to pay to replace the springs.

So first major upgrade for me is the suspension.

What would be your first upgrade on a new bike?
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MT-09 2015 ABS

[RhynoCZ]

You could fit a set of progressive springs OR an sports motorcycle suspension (R1?), front and rear. MT09 might be a great motorcycle but it is still a cheap-ish naked bike.

Oh, by the way, and I am not saying you do not know what you are doing, but do not fiddle with the suspension settings. It's not as simple as it seems, to set the suspension system up properly, so it does what you want it to.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[CaNsA]

[orac]

It maybe worth calling hagons to see if they so sure replacement springs for your forks with a heavier tension
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[talkToTheHat]

Some weight transfer to the front under braking is to be expected and is a good thing. Take advice from a bike suspension setup specialist. I never took vibration and control or vehicle dynamics beyond undergrad level so I won't claim to be that expert. I do, however, have a few suggestions on how to look at the problem.

If you've mistaken rear preload for spring rate or bump damping and cranked it right up then sort that out and see if you get an improvement. It can send all the bike's head geometry screwy if it's out. Check owners manual weight chart or try for 30mm static sag if you can't.

I spent some time on a mostly american forum for owners of a model of bike I previously owned. Every fer months there's be a thread with a relatively inexperienced rider surprised that there was suspension travel at the front (significantly more than an 883 sportser, the best bike in the world) and braking made the bike move. There would invariably be advice to replace the fork oil with something thick (harley engine oil and final drive oil being popular suggestions) and add shims to the springs to make the front stiffer. I had such a bike and it handled like a wooden thing until one day a fork seal failed and I had a friend help me sort it. Whatever was in the forks smelled ungodly and was a bit on the thick side so it was probably GL4, and we had a part ping around the garage and didn't realise that a torx socket was being used as an oversize shim until we took the other leg apart. Reassembled to originall specs and there was a sudden appearance of handling. Granted it was a soft old thing but I had significantly more confidence in the front end, particularly under braking.

What did you ride before the MT09?
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Bandit. does. everything.

[Snowdonia Rider]

[talkToTheHat]

Is the MT-09 set all bouncy-castle to preserve head bearings in the event of many wheelies, or does it wheelie easy because high and bouncy?
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Bandit. does. everything.

[andys675]

call someone who really knows what they're doing, like K-tech
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Some people feel the rain, others just get wet.

[Beehive Bedlam]

Before you go spending £££ on new springs I would suggest you try heavier fork oil you may be pleasantly surprised with the results.

[Duffman]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

How much money have you got?

Hyperpro do front and rear progressive springs for it that makes a good difference for £119 + £89. You get springs and oil in the front fork, and a spring for the OE shock on the rear.

Another option is their streetbox kit, you're well within it's working range at 85kg, and drastically improves the rear end too. It's a fair bit more money as it's a full shock + fork springs. Locking ring is a pig to get to on your machine to adjust the rear preload.

You get set up instructions with the Hyperpro kit i.e. what static sag to aim for etc. Personally I'd say try making adjustments yourself. Just make a note of where the adjusters sit at the moment, if you don't like it you can always go back to your current setting.
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[NJD]

[Flying Panda]

First performance upgrade if you can can it that for me on the suzuki gsx650f was to swap from stock tires (bridgestones) to road pilot 4's. Which are incredible,very happy with them although next time I might go with an 180 on the rear rather than a 160.

[ZX-7R]

First upgrade on a new bike for me would be a race can because it fucking race bike.
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Current Bike - 2000 ZX-7R

[Beehive Bedlam]

[talkToTheHat]

[wristjob]

best advice is to adjust the nut that holds the handlebars.
this always works.

[Banana_B1]

[wristjob]

[Fin]

[talkToTheHat]

Heated grips, satnav mount, bright headlight bulb, scottoiler, hard luggage, dashcam and tailgateer cam. Maybe the weight will stabilise the bike a bit.

Spend some time on a DT125LC or similar. I gather there are places you can pay money to be shown how to play in the mud with similar. No road bike will ever feel bouncy again and my skills from the 90s are still remembered for not freaking out when sliding around on a road bike.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[Teflon-Mike]

Paddock Lore: Want a better bike? fit a better rider!
Fresh off DAS? This is the first bike you have really ridden, and have opportunity to actually find out how it behaves, without any real comparison or reference of how it should behave; you are in a bit of a mire, where you don't really know whether anything that it does is the bike being wrong, or you.... BUT, given that Yamaha have been making motorbikes a good seventy years, and come from making a licence copy of an old BSA Bantam as a side-line, to being one of the top four motorbike makers in the world, putting their name at the top of the list of competition accolades across almost all disciplines of bike-sport, as well as sales charts.... their engineers 'probably' have a pretty good idea of what they are doing, and odds is that if either of you aren't doing something 'right'... it aint the bike!

Oh-Kay; As standard, most bikes are set up a bit on the 'soft side', especially for a larger chap of Northern-European extraction; with weight & height at the upper and of the 'normal' range of physiques, that has to include, usually smaller, women too, which will tend to make the softness a bit more pronounced... BUT...

The result, in the bike being a little more bouncy, wallowy and prone to dive..... this is not necessarily a 'problem', its simply a 'symptom', tackling that 'symptom' and tying to mask or remove it, wont necesserily make the 'problem' go away... just hide it better.

Back to Top. Straight off DAS, and hazarding a guess you have more experience in cars? Its almost certain, that you ride very 'reactively'.

The responsiveness of a bike urges that tendency to ride almost by the seat of your pants, with a lot of 'sudden' control input; and shows very quickly with braking, where, you will likely, especially if used to a car, be very relient on the brakes, and heavy on them, and as you up your 'game' growing in confidence, so you will likely be becoming even more 'reactive' and more violent in control input; the big forces generated by them, giving quite a dramatic sensation of speed, which 'feels' like you expect going 'quick' to be like, so, promoting the 'cycle', urging you to be more reactive, more sudden, more violent.... and the 'softness' of the bikes set-up? Well... that bouncy, wallowy divey 'ride' instead of being the 'symptom' telling you that you are being a bit 'hard' and doing something that's not the 'best', is a 'problem', stopping you from being even harsher, and harder with it.....

Tackle the 'symptom'; firm it up on the dials, more, on after-market adjustments beyond factory range.... it will likely feel 'better' from your seat of the pants point of view... BUT, problem will likely remain... and encouraged to carry on riding reactively.... you will simply push the problem into the now narrower margins, to discover at a later date, just how far you CANT go riding THAT reactively.

I could tell you, that going up 5wt on the fork oil would make a big difference; beyond that, progressive springs, or added pre-load spacers; dropping the fork-jokes on the stanchions; playing with the rear ride height; there is LOADS you can do to play with the parameters... BUT

Here and now, from what you describe... I don't 'think' any such advice would be helping you very much.....

Fork-dive under braking? Tackle it at SOURCE.... don't try stiffening the suspension so you get less of it... try NOT braking so hard, so you don't get so much of it!!

WHY are you braking so hard to start with?
WHY are you braking so 'suddenly'?

Tackle that; SLOW DOWN. Look ahead; predict whats coming and do it on the throttle; THAT is where 99% of riding a bike is at; on the throttle... and fine control of it, holding it more 'closed' not more 'open'!

Work towards 'smooth & progressive'... slow is smooth is swift is fast is SAFE.

We used to play the 'No Brakes' game down the country lanes to try and master this. Rather than cracking the taps and hairing towards corners as quick as we could, then hauling on the anchors, and chucking the bike over..... trying to do it without touching the brakes... arriving at corners AT the speed we wanted to go around them, doing it slowly, smoothly and ALL on the throttle alone...... one who's brake lamp came on most on a lane lost!

Don't use the brakes you Don't get brake dive.... suspension has an easier time, and do what it's supposed to do, and absorb bumps and keep the tyre pressed to the road, giving you best grip.

Best grip, is finite, and it can do two things; transmit braking forces, OR transmit steering forces..... it can transmit a bit of both, but, what you use on one you loose from the other... so more you use for braking, less you have for steering... less you use for brakes, more you have for steering.

So, working for 'smooth' you reduce unnecessary 'peak' loadings on everything; makes the ride a lot less violent, and reduces wear and tear on the bike; you don't use so much fuel' you dont wear out brake pads as much! You dont hammer suspension, or tyres or wheel bearings; so its all added in your wallet when it comes to maintenence too... BUT dropping the 'Drama' of the ride, it makes the ride less tiring too.. and net result is, holding a better 'average' speed, rather than reaching more exiting 'peak' speeds, you get places sooner, safer, less stressed...

And it doesn't need ANY adjustment or modification to the bike.

When you are at the level you are employing smooth is swift, and you aren't noting the softness of the bike as gross fork dive, but are getting mid corner 'wallowing' making it harder to hold a chosen line... the suspension loaded up, NOT with rider imposed 'reaction' but grumbling under gross corner forces...... THEN it may be time to look at whether you might do something to firm it up a bit... or whether you have the right bike for the kind of riding you are doing......

BUT fresh off DAS? Yeah... lots could be done to the bike... but.... to tackle the symptom, not the problem.. and firming up the bike to mask the problem, and encourage you to carry on progressing as you are, in 'reactive'.. IMHO, is probably not the 'best' help we could offer.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[josdr]

The above post by teflon mike is pure gold. I am in a similar situation, due to fast car experience and what you wrote puts things in perspective as far as the biking realm goes. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

[Rogerborg]

It was a great answer to an entirely different question.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[winz]