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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 10:36 - 29 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like Kawasaki were living in a bubble, killed off the W800 and then woke up and said "We should start a new hipster trend with retro bikes".
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 29 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
It's like Kawasaki were living in a bubble, killed off the W800 and then woke up and said "We should start a new hipster trend with retro bikes".


More like:

Crap, Triumph now make bikes better than the W800... We need to work on something that is uniquely Kawasaki, instead of something that was associated with 'British' twins.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 29 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on topic a bit...

I actually love the look of this bike. It's a little bit of a shame it's heavy because something like a Street Triple power, weight and handling in a good looking retro package would be absolutely legendary. That said, the Street Triple can be a bit *too* nuts for going out for a bimble, it seems to always encourage me to absolutely go for it where possible.

I'd love a go on one of these, and it's so good looking that I could see myself slapping down the cash on one if it rides well enough. I can't think of any other bike in the last ten years that has had that effect on me. That is really quite something.
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 29 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. I like it a lot. I don't think it's overly heavy given its style but a 10kg saving would have been nice, 20kg epic.
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P.
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 29 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Back on topic a bit...

I actually love the look of this bike. It's a little bit of a shame it's heavy because something like a Street Triple power, weight and handling in a good looking retro package would be absolutely legendary. That said, the Street Triple can be a bit *too* nuts for going out for a bimble, it seems to always encourage me to absolutely go for it where possible.

I'd love a go on one of these, and it's so good looking that I could see myself slapping down the cash on one if it rides well enough. I can't think of any other bike in the last ten years that has had that effect on me. That is really quite something.


I fully agree, both in the triple being a bit too much for a light jolly out and the fact it looks good. I'm usually one for plastic fantastics and mental things, this is just... appealing!
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 29 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
I fully agree, both in the triple being a bit too much for a light jolly out and the fact it looks good. I'm usually one for plastic fantastics and mental things, this is just... appealing!


Give us back Paddy, you are a charlatan.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 29 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a small possibility they *might* be aiming this at Hipsters...

Z900RS Studio Video, with added Hipster

I SO thought he was going to have a grey beard and wrinkles by the end of the vid. All he needed was a portable record player playing through some enormous headphones, and a lumberjack shirt hanging on the back of the door and my computer would have melted down due to the hipster levels being dangerously high.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this thread needs moar pics:
https://images.mcn.bauercdn.com/PageFiles/636333/1000x750/IMG_9242.jpg

https://images.mcn.bauercdn.com/PageFiles/636333/1000x750/Kawasaki_Z900RS_009.jpg
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks ok, but some indefinable something is putting me off Confused
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bacon
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it looks bloody great, much want
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Marjay and the rest that it does look great, it's original and it's directly trading on its own brand heritage and not copying the look of any other bike.

Still think that it's a breath of fresh air in the modern ugly world of angles, and downward pointing crouched transformers styling that is so common place now or apparently in with many people's taste.

I also don't think the weight is a relevant issue today. The crazy power to weight arms race for faster lighter bikes in today's world is done! It's a 900cc engine with something over 115bhp? It's plenty and plenty fast enough in today's congested shitty world.

Oh and the one thing that's stopping me going down to my local Kawasaki dealer is the styling. While most will love the classic curvey and pretty Zed look, I'm more of a fan of the mk2 Z1000, Z1R and especially the Z1300.

If they make a follow up bike with the big square tank, and tail unit, and a square headlight, then I'd be quite happy to put my money down on one.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
IOh and the one thing that's stopping me going down to my local Kawasaki dealer is the styling. While most will love the classic curvey and pretty Zed look, I'm more of a fan of the mk2 Z1000, Z1R and especially the Z1300.

If they make a follow up bike with the big square tank, and tail unit, and a square headlight, then I'd be quite happy to put my money down on one.


Ugh no. It's a widely known thing in design circles that angles date, and curves don't date. That'll be why the non RS version of the Z900 will look properly dated in ten years time, whereas this will still look good.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:


Ugh no. It's a widely known thing in design circles that angles date, and curves don't date. That'll be why the non RS version of the Z900 will look properly dated in ten years time, whereas this will still look good.


I dunno, I quite like the look of some bikes like the Z1000J - usually when they've been fairly heavily modified though. There is a chunkiness to them that can be quite impressive imo. But it's just that. It's all just that. Opinions.

I think, as mentioned by someone else above, it's the side-panel, and frame tubes in that area that don't quite get it for me. It makes it look as though the bodywork is just sat on the bike, rather than an integral part of the styling. But usually I don't find the side view the best of most bikes, so I might like it more in the flesh. It's not bad, seen far worse.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have liked them to put twin shocks on it. I'm sure with todays engineering they could have done it without the sea sickness inducing wallowing the ZRX was capable of. Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I would have liked them to put twin shocks on it. I'm sure with todays engineering they could have done it without the sea sickness inducing wallowing the ZRX was capable of. Laughing


Thing is, if I had the money to do the Z650 project I've always wanted to do, I'd be mono shock-ing it. I wouldn't want to compromise handling for the sake of the looks. So no, I think they were right to make it mono shock. Thing is, they have already done retro on the early Z theme with the Zephyr series, and they were twin shock.

Thinking Is this a retro of a retro?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I would have liked them to put twin shocks on it. I'm sure with todays engineering they could have done it without the sea sickness inducing wallowing the ZRX was capable of. Laughing


Personally I think that twin shocks and spindly forks are the worst looking parts of old bikes. A nice updated mono shock conversion with USD forks make the best classics IMO. Maybe that's why this Z900RS hits the spot for me.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:46 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be a work of art, if Wilde was right:

"Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital. When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself."

Dunno about "new" though.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come the first of the warm weather in April I'm going over to Greenham Kawasaki to try to blag a test ride. That's usually bad news for my bank account!
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bacon
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 30 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Come the first of the warm weather in April I'm going over to Greenham Kawasaki to try to blag a test ride. That's usually bad news for my bank account!


I have a test ride on the standard z900 next weekend, with some luck I'll be able to find out the arrival dates of the rs and perhaps get a ride on one as well.. best price on a 2017 z900 is £7700 OTR.

Downside is this rs will be £10200, plus a low seat (£270), plus I'd like a centre stand and a grab rail if I were to have one. So then we are likely looking at £11k. Fooking insane, but it does look bloody tasty...
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 01 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it looks nice, 11k nice? jog on!
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 01 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm definitely not taken by the pointy and jumbled linear aesthetics of contemporary bikes - but the retro thing is becoming too influential. It's compromising what has always made motorbikes so compelling: Continuous development. Down the decades the main impetus was about competition between manufacturers, and how that process fed through to development, not just in small-run homologated machines, but in mass-produced bikes. That relentless refinement was positive and exciting.

In some ways, the retro trend is nothing more than manufacturers supplying an ageing market niche with its demands - but there's something shit about this backward-looking nostalgia when it gains such prominence.

Said the owner of a w650. Neutral
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 01 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
I'm definitely not taken by the pointy and jumbled linear aesthetics of contemporary bikes - but the retro thing is becoming too influential. It's compromising what has always made motorbikes so compelling: Continuous development. Down the decades the main impetus was about competition between manufacturers, and how that process fed through to development, not just in small-run homologated machines, but in mass-produced bikes. That relentless refinement was positive and exciting.

In some ways, the retro trend is nothing more than manufacturers supplying an ageing market niche with its demands - but there's something shit about this backward-looking nostalgia when it gains such prominence.

Said the owner of a w650. Neutral


Culminating in the sportsbike revolution in reality. Since it seems the road bike development has pretty much stalled except for electronic gizmos and eurobollox kitten killing emission improvements Rolling Eyes

I doubt we will ever see anything like the 80's, 90's and 00's again where a new bike came out that was an actual improvement rather than a facelift.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 01 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed!

I get what Trevor daft name was saying. But your bubble is burst!

We had 4 decades of competition between manufacturers, and the arms race at all costs to the top of each class. It had to implode one day just by the costs incurred alone. The stockmarket, global downturn about 8-9years ago and the state of the exchange rate between the Yen and Euro, and pound did its bit too.

Your right in saying that manufacturers are doing more retro and old school brought up to date bikes (often at less cost than full on space age halo bikes) to cater for a very real aging bike riding population. That's just fact, and also the power of the grey or nostalgic pound is massively higher than the commuter on a budget pound, or the inquisitive young newbie pound.

You cant blame the manufacturers for tapping into the biggest market. Sure they will always offer some new and modern angular crap loaded with electronics to appeal to the geeks, the adventure bikers, and those that just want the latest thing, like would be Ducati V4 Panigale buyers.

Building cheap knock down price commuters in China killed the revenue in the small bike market, and now the Chinq bikes are either disappearing or just costing a grand more to be complient, so are the buyers.

But There's no longing by young people to own a bike, and if they did feel that way, the licensing hurdles and costs stop them dead. Then there's the Governments, and the Safety legislators wanting bikes off the road too. They aint really cool now as you can't operate your smart phone properly while riding a bike etc.

Then there's racing and the manufacturers own development paths forced by it, or driven purely by making a bike that's good for the WSB grid with a few bits taken off or bolted on. This line of thinking killed off useful real world sports bikes, and drove the nails into the coffin of the 600cc sports bike class.

Companies like BMW bringing out WSB ready bikes for the road with over 200bhp also helped switch off buyers interest, as firstly the market has changed away from sports bikes to nakeds and adventures, and hipster cool machinery.

But secondly 200bhp+ bikes with hard suspension and cramped riding positions couldn't be any less useful or relevant to todays roads. Congestion is the first reason, and roads getting poorer and in more of a state is the other. Also all big bikes are fast and more than enough for the roads, they were in 1990 with 120-130bhp. 200bhp hasn't made bikes any faster or more useful pulling out of busy junctions while trying to avoid school mum in her 2ton 4x4, or for doing speeds that are vaguely legal or unlikey to get your license taken away.

The thing that's shit is not the profitable backwards looking nostalgia, but the lack of any future or growth in the bike market and a lack of huge interest and desire by the young to want to get into bikes.

It's the same but to a lesser extent for cars now too. There's always the new must have the latest thing people out there, but personal transport is getting more expensive to get into, and isn't really a status thing or a must have for many. That's why white goods tick the box new cars sell so well, and its relevant to bikes too. As people want the electronics DCT's and connectivity, but they don't want to put any effort in to becoming a good rider, and they probably couldn't care less how many Ohlins fully adjustable dials are on the forks and shocks in comparison.

Imagine giving a new rider a brand new scalpel bike like an RGV 250 today. It's twitchy, fussy, smelly and needs loads of attention. Its also shit to ride unless your concentration is high and your on it. They would just say 'Nahh this bike is shit bruv'.
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 01 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:

[/b]
In some ways, the retro trend is nothing more than manufacturers supplying an ageing market niche with its demands - but there's something shit about this backward-looking nostalgia when it gains such prominence.


Culminating in the sportsbike revolution in reality. Since it seems the road bike development has pretty much stalled except for electronic gizmos and eurobollox kitten killing emission improvements Rolling Eyes

I doubt we will ever see anything like the 80's, 90's and 00's again where a new bike came out that was an actual improvement rather than a facelift.


Good points, those.

I don't so much have a problem with the reverse engineering because in a lot of ways, the bikes that are being produced these days are far in excess of what can be used realistically on the road anyway. But I can't help but think there's been a cheapening of, umm, everything - every component is just now what will do, rather than anything special. Look at the work that went into something like the RC30 - single sided swing arm and low wheel weight etc. Nothing we're going to get in this current market environment will move anything on and it seems 220kg is now an acceptable weight with 200kg being considered good.

At the same time, and this is the double kicker, the pricing is going off the chart. I get it, it's the world in which we live and everything is getting more expensive - but it does feel like we're paying a hellish premium for brand / styling rather than any usable engineering advantage from what we had 10 years ago.
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