motorbiking vs. flying

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

All my mates are like me - fairly normal sorts: own a car or two; ride a bike; had a kid or two; etc. etc. But one is pretty wealthy - has more expensive tastes, bigger house than the rest. Incidentally, he kind of got me into biking - even though he'd sold his cbr600 (and never replaced it). I think he's been a bit surprised by how into riding I've got in the last few years.

Anyway, last year he pressured me into a flying lesson. I don't feel much for planes but more obviously, I could never afford lessons and flying and all that shit. It's not on my uhm radar. Not something I'd ever think about and also I'm not into it.

But he argued I said all that shit about bikes and then look what happened. So he drove us to Full Sutton airfield and before I knew it I was being bundled into some diddy little Cessna thing and three of us were taking off.

The pilot made me take the controls and so I had a little fly for a while. Conditions were perfect. And heading towards the worlds I could see Garrowby Hill, and the awesome Buttercrambe/Malton road. Then the pilot took control again and did a few swoops and dives.

This is where he overplayed his hand. His showing off left us feeling ill. If his intention was to create a couple of new converts (i.e. customers for himself), he failed. A red mist of blood rising up your vision as a few Gs start to drag you into unconsciousness strangely doesn't hold much appeal. You'd imagine flying would be like biking, only more so. Maybe the next logical step. To paraphrase Irvine Welsh, if you liked motorbikes you'll LOVE planes.

My question is does anyone here fly, and how do they feel it compares to biking? I'd like to have that skill "in the bank" as it were - be able to get in a plane and fly it. But I honestly don't think I'd take to it that much. When you're up over a certain altitude the plane hardly seems to even be moving, for one thing. Whereas riding feels so much more visceral and constantly demanding. I dunno.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[winz]

I have done a few hours flying in my life, but the costs for licensing and actual air time is quite a lot. It's just something to do for an hour, if you're talking about going from a-b you need to factor in landing fees, aircraft hire etc.

But it is very fun!
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Current Bikes: BMW K1200S
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[Rogerborg]

Join ISIS, they'll train you up (landing not included).
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[DrDonnyBrago]

Bendy was planning a very long microlight trip. There was a thread with plans, planes, etc.

No idea if she ever did it, haven't seen her on here in ages.

[kgm]

This post will probably be somewhat Tef-like.

I fly, or at least I did until I sold my Flexwing microlight just over a year ago. The only reason I sold it was because I'm saving for a mortgage deposit for our first house. It's an entirely different experience to riding a bike and enjoyable for different reasons. The bike is definitely more exciting and adrenaline-inducing a lot of the time but flying on a calm summers day, especially near the mountains is awesome. It's hard for me to put into words why I like to fly but it leaves me feeling very content and satisfied. There's more to think about whilst flying than riding the bike (generally) and it requires more knowledge to do so safely. It's also way more expensive.

I've flown a few different types of things - gliders, light aircraft, microlights (there's two types - fixed wing, like a normal light aircraft (google Ikarus C42) and flexwing - a wing that looks like a hang glider with a trike suspended underneath), helicopters and autogyros.

Gliders are lots of fun and soaring is a real skill however with our weather long flights can be difficult unless you live somewhere hilly and I got fed up with hauling planes about all day for not a lot of airtime. Costs are reasonable.

Light aircraft are expensive to learn on and expensive to run an own. They are more poor weather capable and make it easier to cover very long distances than microlights and they also open up aerobatics and instrument flying depending on type. Good for those wanting to move into a flying career, wanting to operate from larger airfields and have bags of money to spend but for the normal recreational pilot I think microlights are the better option. I find Cessna type aircraft a little boring tbh. License cost circa £6k.

Helicopters are my favourite. Involving to fly, versatile and interesting. But VERY expensive in every way. Prohibitively so for me.

Autogyros (google MTO sport) traditionally have a poor safety record however there were good reasons for this and with modern training on a modern machine they're about as safe as any other recreational aviation, and certainly no more dangerous than a bike! This is where my money would go if I had more of it. Fantastic fun. Highly manoeuvrable, unique way of flying with the ability to land in a tiny area. Because there isn't a huge number of them the modern machines are a bit expensive. Circa £50k typically which unfortunately is way more than I can manage. License cost circa £6k.

Microlights I reckon are the best value flying for a recreational pilot and one of the most enjoyable. As I said they come in two types - flexwing is what most people think of - and they're not just hang gliders with lawn mower engines attached; you can get some real performance from modern machines. This is what I chose to fly mostly as I enjoy the open cockpit and the more 'physical' and grass roots feeling of flying them. These are probably the closest to a flying bike. You also have the fixed wing type which is like a normal light aircraft. Again the modern machines offer serious performance, in many cases they can exceed the performance of light aircraft. The primary criteria for an aircraft to be classed as a microlight is weight (<450kg MAUW) so you'd be surprised what the license covers. Still requires a full pilot license so cost is circa £4k but varies depending on skill level. If you want to have a bash at learning to fly I'd definitely recommend giving microlights a go. It can be as expensive or affordable as you like. Aircraft prices vary from £2k (mine cost £2.5k) to over £50k. Hangerage is typically about £1000p/a but again varies considerably over area. I was closer to £1600. Maintenance requirements are a permit to fly (MOT) inspection and check flight, about £300p/a plus any parts costs - you can do your own routine maintenance if you so choose. Fuel burn is typically about 12L/hour unleaded.

Other options for fun and cheaper flying are paragliding or paramotoring but weather here limits both a bit too much for me.

It is expensive but it is rewarding; I think it's one of those things you either quickly gain a passion for or you don't. That said unless you have money to burn I wouldn't advise it unless you plan to continue to fly regularly afterwards as it's a waste of money otherwise. It's not really the kind of thing you can just do now and again as there are currency requirements to keep your license and that aside you really need to keep your skill level up as it's easy to become rusty. My license has now lapsed so when decide to get back into it I'll need to sit a practical test again to have it revalidated.

[Rogerborg]

[MarJay]

[chickenstrip]

Just thoughts...Flying a microlight seems to me to be a very different thing to flying in an enclosed cockpit. Open to the elephants, feeling the wind and air currents. Or hang-gliding for the whole body input thing - that, it seems to me, would be more like the biking experience. Plus not so high up and detached from the world below.

I've flown in a Chipmunk and some little French light aeroplane called a Wasmer(?), been up in Puma and Chinook helicopters, was all a bit meh. Probably different when you're at the controls, but for real 'thrills' flying, I'd guess you'd have to be terrain-following in a fast jet through the mountains, or throwing it around in a dogfight type scenario. Flying without permission over North Korea might be pretty exciting...

So yeah, actually, it does seem kind of like riding a bike; the thrills depend on what you ride, where you ride it, and how you ride it.
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[hellkat]

I would very much like to learn to fly a plane.
I just haven't got round to it yet.

It's definitely on my To Do list.

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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[stinkwheel]

I flew a fair bit with the air cadets both in powered gliders, sailplanes and chipmunk light aircraft when I was younger.

There can be a real rush but it's a far more cerebral thing than motorcycling. Both in planning what you're going to do and then doing it. You've got to do it "by the numbers".

The buzz factor of flying for me comes from pulling G which you don't actually do a lot of. Or nailing a landing. You shouldn't be reacting to unexpected things (although you should be able to) because it should all be planned out in advance.

So the coolest thing I ever did in a plane was executing a cuban eight in a chipmunk (a 1940s single engined airplane, I was talked through it by a retired wing commander, I strongly suspect he had rather more than a finger and thumb on the stick at the time) and pulling enough G to start to grey-out. It was fucking epic, but in reality took up 10 seconds of a 60 minute sortie and took two minutes to plan for. The rest of the flight was by the numbers. Actually, even the stunt was by the numbers because you don't leave that kind of thing to chance because a DH Chipmunk airframe can take +9G and -6G. I can't. So get the speed, timing and angles wrong and you'll pass out, crash and die.

That was in a military environment. You have to rack up a LOT of flying hours to be allowed to do that kind of thing on a private licence.

You can just get on a motorbike and ride it. Dealing with whatever comes up as it comes up and not even having a firm destination in mind. You can even run out of fuel without any serious consequences.

With a plane, you need to know where you're going, when and by what route. You need to have tower frequencies, know which airspace you can and can't go in. You need to plan fuel. You need to follow checklists at take off and landing.

You COULD fly a plane by the "seat of your pants" but you'll land up a) Lost and b) In a whole lot of trouble (both in terms of personal danger and in terms of getting grounded).

It is possible to ride a motorcycle like you'd fly an aircraft with constant acronyms, checklists and SOPs runninground your head (IAM, I'm looking at you) but I think that would take a lot of the fun out of it.

To put it another way. Once you get over the fact that you're staying up in the sky in a heavier than air machine, flying a plane is a LOT like playing a flight simulator computer game. While riding a motorcycle is way more fun than playing a motorcycle game.
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[hellkat]

[woo]

nope flying does not appeal to me and never will

I hate being on an aeroplane let alone a small aeroplane where you fill every bit of wind

people always mock me about my fear of flying yet they wont ever ride a motorbike or drink absinthe lol

sorry to be negative but unless i can fly like superman where im in full control then flying will not ever be for me.
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[kgm]

[stinkwheel]

[dodsi]

My only experience is this.

My uncle is/was a fast jet pilot (now is a typhoon simulator instructor because age)

Started in F3 Tornado's, did tactical weapons instructing and flight instructing on Hawks and then F16's in the USA for a while.

With all that under his belt he still rides motorcycles and did concurrently.

They must be different experiences.

[mudcow007]

If I had the money i would be flying right now.

Done a couple of lessons in a Bulldog from Speke (liverpool) down towards the welsh coast then back across the Dee estuary - twas awesome

Thought about looking into them kite things with a big fan strapped to your back - they seem to be way cheaper than a microlight.

I have a microflight pleasure flight (sounds wrong that) to go up an over Snowdown but the weather has been pants

[goto10]

I did the Air Cadets thing too (Chipmunks) and also did the IGT/BGT (gliding) - I was getting ready to do the AGT but I turned 17 and girls and cars got in the way (...and I left the ATC before finishing it)
I loved my experiences though - these days I make do with flying RC helis/planes (not the fly-themselves-quadcopters) - although saying that, even that rarely gets a look-in these days.
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[blue_painted]

Flying is as much fun as biking: more so because there are fewer people getting in the way, less so because there's far more regulation and faff. It's harder to get the "feel" skills for flying than it is for biking. It helped that I started riding when I was teenage, by the time I started flying in my 40s the learning became that much harder.

Personally I fly Tiger Moths and ride a Bonneville (admittedly a 2015 Hinkley T100) because I like that unassisted hands-and-feet on both of them.

Most people I fly with are into fast cars and bikes to one degree or another: If you haven't, then give it a go, there's lots of places will do an introductory lesson or introductory flight.
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[Rogerborg]

[nitrosurf]

[blue_painted]

[MCN]

Flying is for the Birds or the Filthy Rich.

I would certainly be able to master it is someone wants to finance my pursuit.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Jmoan]

These things look fun but I don't know whether they're classes as glider or hang gliders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpemglwS8XA

[RhynoCZ]

[Teflon-Mike]

Unc got into microliting about 25 years ago; grubbed up half a hedge so he could stick a strip down the middle of two fields. At the time... it wasn't 'too' expensive, it seems, and having his own landing strip, saved landing fees and club dues and stuff. It was all done under 'hobby' pilot regs rather than 'private', so the aircraft had to technically be 'home built'.

RIDICULOUS BLUDY THINGS!

A Rally car seat, hung under a sail-boat sail on it's side; with a 500cc two-stroke rotax engine on the back with a fucking big magimix blade spinning on it... oh.. and three Ikea trolly wheels!

Pre-flight instructions: "Get in, open the throttle, rush down the 'strip' steering with your feet, the mown grass tickling your danglie bits as you go, don't worry about that.... then push the fuck on the bar... and it'll go UP... Trust me!"

If you are deranged enough to get that far.. then climbing to 2ooo ft, and looking up to see that there is just one 10mm diamater bolt holding the 'wing' on, probably wont seem particularly concerning!

When he got a fixed wing a couple of years later... I would say 'closed cockpit', but these mocrolitists are a bit delusional... I could see grass and sky in the gaps in the canvas..... it didn't seem all that 'closed' to me... and with about as much structural integrity as a tent... well, at least I couldn't see the bolt that held the wing on! although that was rather diminished by the strimmer engine and lawn-mower blade now being in full view infront of my danglie bits!!!

Preflight instructions "Get in, open the throttle, rush down the 'strip', then pull the back on the wobbly go-kart steering wheel... and it'll go UP... Trust me!"

I have to say, that I found it all far less exhilarating than I had expected.

Getting the thing in the air.. yeah... that's the exiting bit.. will it wont it.. how much strip have I got left.... and will I get enough altitude to get over that hedge...... but then, once up, all something of an anti-climax I found.. not a lot more to do really, rather un-engaging, until you want to come down again..... Actual 'flying' left me rather very non-plussed.

I have to say I found the flex-wing the more engaging; 'exposed' cockpit! Jeez! Its a bludy Rally car seat on a sky-hook!!!! Held up by voodoo and a bolt! But much more seat of the pants, and a lot more 'work' to do; But still....

The 'flying' seemed such a small 'bit' of the gig. There was much more in the maintenance, and completing the checks and logs; and in planning a flight, pouring over charts and plotting the course and 'stuff'.

Unc got into doing 'fly-ins'; long flights up and down the country, or even abroad; ISTR he was invited to a fly-in in the South of France, which prompted him to get the fixed wing; and he's since gone on to fly to Poland and gawd knows where.

With all the prep that's needed, I can see the attraction in such adventures; but the flying, I suspect is pretty much the 'boring bit in the middle'!!!

Idea of popping back to the farm (or out to the 'club' strip at Long-Marston, or wherever) of a summer's evening or a sunny Sunday afternoon, to pull the thing out the barn; do all the preps & checks, to take it up for a twenty minute 'joy-ride', over the same scenery I have seen so many times before, for so little 'thrill' or reward? DIDN'T encourage me to get any more 'in' to it..... and to all extents and purposes, that was without having to stick my hand in my pocket to pay for any of it!!!

Judging by my Unc's more recent accounts; the 'hobby' has become a lot less accessible, a lot more regulated, and a lot more expensive this century.... He had to buy a £10K 'parachute' for the plane! This was something to do with regs and insurance, apparently!

HE obviously reckons it all worth the while, and gets enough out of it, and after seeing his beloved '73 Ducati sold to the cause early on, then his even more beloved '72 MV Augusta a little later, and the Gold-Wing went in the last round to buy the parachute, obviously gets so much more from it than he does bikes...... and doing it 20+ years, it's obviously endured.

So, end of the day... it's apples and oranges.. and yeah, my conclusion was much as your's...

HELICOPTERS.. on the other hand.... they have always fascinated me... One and only test lesson in one scared the shit out of me! they are a law unto themselves.... pitty they are so bludy expensive to fly... (and Unc doesn't have one squirreled away in a barn! lol) Still like to have another go at them... but I don't think I'd get rid of bikes for it!
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