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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 27 Aug 2016    Post subject: Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Reply with quote

How much time in prison should be given for each of the following offences?

1. Unoccupied residential burglary
2. Occupied residential burglary
3. Burglary of a business out of hours
4. Robbery of a business in hours
5. Street robbery
6. Assault by an individual
7. Group assault
8. Murder
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.....
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 27 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burglary and robbery of any kind, minimum 5 years.

Assaults is a tricky one as it ranges from a push upwards.

Murder, life.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 27 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Execution for all of them. Except where the victim was a motorcyclist, then just a "tis ok, but don't do it again.."
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 27 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imagine if five years actually meant five years!

Idea
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 27 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long is a piece of string? What are the circumstances?

John murders Bob - after Bob brutally and inexplicably murders John's wife without any reason/excuse, then goes on to avoid any sort of justice due to police investigations being useless, lets say. This is only highlighted during John's trial. Does John deserve the same sentence as Bob now? Even if its a minimum sentence? Razz

And does that mean much either way if "worse" cases often get the same minimum sentences anyway because the justice systems bulging at the seams? Razz
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 27 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feels pretty circumstantial to me too, probably for the best that I'm not a judge.

Ransacking a house and ruining everything, taking heirlooms etc, vs going for the car keys off the rack, for example.

Also robbing a corner shop and ruining the owner's livelihood, vs. taking a monitor from a multinational's office.

Another thing is that most sentences are aimed at being deterrents, but they don't really work because people don't think they'll be caught. If I'm five times likely to be caught committing a 5 year offence, is that equivalent to murder? I doubt it's seen that way.

If we could have good (say 50%+) enforcement of theft I don't think it'd merit prison time at all. If my bike gets stolen, I'd be happy with a replacement plus costs and some sort of nominal punishment, the problem is that as we know bike thieves are barely ever caught.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 00:59 - 28 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the law system, British or Czech, does not matter, is set alright. Thumbs Up

As you might know, I have got the master's degree at law. So, I do realise not every crime is the same. Demanding life sentence or even death penalty for murder is a bit short sighted. In many cases of murder there's no prior consideration and/or deliberation (planning). There's also a very thin line between murder and manslaughter. A planned murder sure should have worse punishment, don't you think?

You can't just send people to prison willy nilly. That would be Communism. Razz
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 28 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
I think the law system, British or Czech, does not matter, is set alright. Thumbs Up

As you might know, I have got the master's degree at law. So, I do realise not every crime is the same. Demanding life sentence or even death penalty for murder is a bit short sighted. In many cases of murder there's no prior consideration and/or deliberation (planning). There's also a very thin line between murder and manslaughter. A planned murder sure should have worse punishment, don't you think?

You can't just send people to prison willy nilly. That would be Communism. Razz


No, but when Joe Scrote gets off with a slapped wrist for the 20th time he's burgled someone's house it doesn't do any good for people respect for the law.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 28 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
How much time in prison should be given for each of the following offences?

1. Unoccupied residential burglary
2. Occupied residential burglary
3. Burglary of a business out of hours
4. Robbery of a business in hours
5. Street robbery
6. Assault by an individual
7. Group assault
8. Murder


Before ending up in prison the perpetrator of the crime has to be caught!
Plod have far more important work to do than investigating that sort of crime! Ensuring no one has typed a naughty word on one of the, bullshit, social media outlets, is priority stuff these days! Rolling Eyes
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 07:37 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harm caused to a person, motivation of the perp.

Some stranger burgles a person's house because he wants dollar, minimum 10 years with a max 20% off for good behaviour.

Some guy beats some other guy to death for raping his daughter, £10 fine.

Now try to quantify every possible combination of harm/motivation and pretend the majority of judges could get their heads around it. Lol.
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a can of worms for you to inspect.
The prison system is overloaded, mostly with low level criminals offending to feed a drug habit or drifting into petty larceny from poverty (perceived or not).
So. The majority of such cases before the bench get suspended or minimal sentencing. With little or no support, the cycle repeats.
This leads to the inevitable diminution of respect for the law both by perp and victim.
My solution is this. Put them to work, but proper work. It won't be pleasant, street sweeping, land reclamation, parks and landscaping, heavy, dirty, but a real contribution to the social fabric. Its win win.
We get clean cities, they get to payback and, just maybe, some form of satisfaction that might just feed back into their future behavior.
Councils are cash strapped in just these areas, so I don't envisage much protest from our public servants.
Now, how to control such an unruly bunch out in society.
Micro chip them on entry into the system. Location to be monitored at all times. There is nothing, technically to stop having a device that renders the subject immobile if they miss-behave.
It would be an answer, but do we want to go down that road?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
My solution is this. Put them to work, but proper work.

"Nah, I'll do my time. Playstation, now."

Prison isn't a threat to career lags.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should have some sort of system where someone judges the situation to determine how long is necessary. Thinking Thinking
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
We should have some sort of system where someone judges the situation to determine how long is necessary. Thinking Thinking

You'd think, but sentencing guidelines are more what you'd call actual rules.

This is probably the most powerful unelected, unaccountable quango in EnglandandWalesshire: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put them all on a nice island somewhere. That one full of Anthrax sounds a good choice. Tell them it's up to them how they survive. Thumbs Up
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Unoccupied residential burglary = 3-5yrs.
2. Occupied residential burglary = 5-7yrs.
3. Burglary of a business out of hours = 3-5yrs.
4. Robbery of a business in hours = 5-10yrs unarmed, 7-15yrs Armed.
5. Street robbery = 5-7yrs.
6. Assault by an individual = 3-10yrs.
7. Group assault = 5-15yrs.
8. Murder = Life, no parole, no release.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody mentioned castration as part of any punishment. Now, I'm not usually an advocate of social engineering but as a society we would all benefit from stopping the blood-line of persistent offending scroat families... Doing the same to the likes of Philip Green wouldn't cause me a problem either..
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:

My solution is this. Put them to work, but proper work. It won't be pleasant, street sweeping, land reclamation, parks and landscaping, heavy, dirty, but a real contribution to the social fabric. Its win win.
We get clean cities, they get to payback and, just maybe, some form of satisfaction that might just feed back into their future behavior.


Which will undercut the wages for people working in those industries. Therefore the work has to be utterly useless like digging and filling holes.

Prison sentences?

The problem with prison sentences is that prisons simply aren't brutal enough.

Siggi here went to a Japanese prison and wrote a negative trip adviser review about his experience.

Nick Leeson went to a Singaporean prison and did not enjoy himself either giving a 1 star review on Trivago.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, I've seen the decrepit old fuckers advocating such menial work should be completed in exchange for dole money.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 27 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Nobody mentioned castration as part of any punishment. Now, I'm not usually an advocate of social engineering but as a society we would all benefit from stopping the blood-line of persistent offending scroat families... Doing the same to the likes of Philip Green wouldn't cause me a problem either..


It has been proven many times before, that the DNA nor physical appearance and special abilities have nothing to do with any criminal predispositions. It's the mental state of the person and/or the environment the person grows up, lives.

They only castrate the mentaly ill sex offenders, that can't help themself, for some reason. But that's not really a punishment, it's a deal the perpetrator makes with the judge, that works as some sort of a precaution and condition for the perpetrator to remain free. This is normally combined with medication that causes impotency and/or medication reducing the sex apetite of the perpetrator.

One important thing, the perpetrator has to give an informed consent to all above. The alternative to it is incarceration in a psychiatric hospital. And the actuall castration is very rare. I remember only one case as it was heavily cover by all the local media.
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