Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Today I tried....

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

andym
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:30 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Today I tried.... Reply with quote

Welding for the first time.... and it didn't go too well:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0618_zpshgkzb5uu.jpg

I decided to buy a cheap arc welder to practice with, I watched a couple of videos and set about some scrap (1mm) steel a friend had... at the moment I only have 2.5mm rods which either blew holes in the metal or I turned it down so low it the rods would just stick to the metal. It almost worked at just under 55 amps (or 2mm sticks).

Because it was cheap, it included a hand held mask which was more annoying than anything (having to strike the arc then cover my eyes, but I've ordered some gloves, 1.6mm rods, auto dimming mask and a few other bits.

If anyone has any tips or tricks to share then please do (other than give it up ya useless bastard)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:56 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rods are too big for 1mm steel. It's easier to use small rods at the high end of the amperage than larger rods at the lower end.

Get some 2/3mm metal and try with that.

Oh, a biggie if you are using DC is having the correct rod polarity.

Also practice resting the insulation of the rod on the metal you are working. Touch welding gives the ideal arc distance.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:08 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit more....

Just been looking at cheap arc welders to see the specs and they are just about all AC so presuming you have one of those, you don't have to worry about polarity. Personally I use a DC inverter machine for 2 reasons, it's very light and it's DC. I get a much better weld with DC. A good machine will have removable electrode and earth cables and a +ve and -ve like a car battery terminals. You swap the cables depending on the polarity.

The big problem with cheap welders is the current control. You can set it but it will vary quite badly and where you might think it's just your fault you are burning holes, it can be the machine if you are welding right on the limit current wise.

Also, the reason I mentioned touch welding is the larger the arc, the larger the current until the arc breaks. That can result in blown holes, undercutting and an inconsistent weld. If you can rest the edge of the insulation on the rod onto the metal you will be amazed the improvement of your welding. I was terrible until I was shown that technique. Seagull shit had nothing on me Laughing

An auto dimming helmet is a must, it makes life so much easier and arc eye is a very painful injury I can assure you you don't want. It feels like someone has poured a bag of sand in your eyes.

Saying all that you can weld quite happily with one of those cheapy machines and get a reasonable finish. Different makes of rods make quite a difference so read the box. It will tell you if it's AC or DC, what current to use depending on the job etc. , try stainless rods, the finish you can get with them is stunning and you don't need to be that good to get it.

I love playing with welders but don't do it enough now and if you don't keep practising you lose your edge and it takes a while to get it back.

Oh, If you want to weld car bodywork, get a MIG welder.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:19 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of useful on ChuckE's youtube channel

He teached himself

https://www.youtube.com/user/ChuckE2009

As above the current is not at all stable in the cheap welders. You can stick stuff together but the piece of joy I got from ALdi/Lidl will not burn my 1.5mm 6017 mild steel electrodes for a wee jobby I had.
I ended up having to use a lesser mild steel electrode.

The lesser rods were not as clean as the better rod I had specified and had a lot of inclusions. Possibly due to the fact that the arc welder current is not stable. Even at it mid range.

An inverted current welder is much better.

Or go TIG. But then you have gas hassles. And if you only do wee one off that gets old quick Sad

ANd you may struggle getting an arc weld to work on thin sheet metal.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

thx1138
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:49 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried arc welding, with supervision, and I just kept getting the rod stuck to the metal. Sad
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

pepperami
Super Spammer



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:57 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh! the joys of trying to weld and not knowing a thing about it Laughing
If blowing holes in exhausts, getting arc-eyes, and sticking the rods to the metal you`re welding was a qualification, I`d be a teacher Laughing

I bought a MIG and it`s a lot easier to get a functioning weld, even if it`s not pretty.
____________________
I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:00 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get some stumpy ends of welding rods off a proper fabricator to practice with. They are much easier to strike a weld with.

The metal you're trying to weld in the picture looks very thin to be doing with an arc welder.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Chinaboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:51 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a welding instructor, I would say that keeping your rods in a warm and dry environment will help. I would even warm my rods in the oven for 20 minutes before using them. Getting the amps right for striking and maintaining the arc is key, as well as angle of the rod to the surface and rod size to material thickness. All have to be considered, and practiced.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

andym
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:25 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I'd have been laughed at for my first ever attempt at welding, but there's definitely some useful information here.... which I'll probably just ignore anyway Razz

Seriously though:

Polarbear: I'm just working with what I've got at the moment, a friend gave me lots of scrap 1mm steel plates.... I know the rods are too thick and the metal too thin, but I tried the best I could..... having shit myself the first time I touched the rod to the metal. Also I can't find the picture, but this is the link to screwfix where I bought it from: https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im-arc140-10-115-140a-arc-welder-240v/17497?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-powertools-_-arcwelders&_requestid=715289#product_additional_details_container
I know it's shit, but I don't want to go spending hundreds on something that I might never get the hang of, so £80 is like spare change at the moment.
The one I bought I can reverse the leads (don't know if it says that in the description), but at the moment I'm keeping everything plugged in where it should be (even though I've watched videos explaining about electron flow etc.)

MCN: Noted.... and ignored Razz
As said I've never touched a welder in my life, I've only ever walked past workers welding so never seen any up close and personal.... so I didn't know what to expect.

thx1138: When the amps were really low the rod would either bounce over the metal or stick solid, so I found myself ripping the rod off the metal several times, if you turn the amps up then after you strike the arc the rod moves quite freely from blowing holes up to a 1cm arc.

Stinkwheel: I've got about 130 2.5 rods and another 60 1.6mm rods being delivered, the striking isn't a problem (drag, lift slightly and weld), the metal is (as said) 1mm steel, I know it's thin as I shouldn't be trying anything less than fencing apparently Rolling Eyes but given time I'll hopefully be able to weld 2 bits of tinfoil together Razz

Chinaboy: I've yet to see the difference between cold and warm rods, striking the arc was a bit hit and miss (drag and nothing, drag and nothing, touch and nothing, dra.... AAARRRCCC or d.arc.... if that makes sense). Today I was messing around with the amps and realised that the higher was easier to get a decent arc, but melted the metal like butter, the lower didn't create an arc and just caused the rod to stick a lot and not much else.

I may keep this thread as a bit of a diary as I'll be going to a friends and asking if I can practice a bit there (after getting some thicker scrap metal that is)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:51 - 03 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arc-Eye is your new forum name. Very Happy
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:05 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

andym wrote:
I thought I'd have been laughed at for my first ever attempt at welding, but there's definitely some useful information here.... which I'll probably just ignore anyway Razz

Seriously though:

Polarbear: I'm just working with what I've got at the moment, a friend gave me lots of scrap 1mm steel plates.... I know the rods are too thick and the metal too thin, but I tried the best I could..... having shit myself the first time I touched the rod to the metal. Also I can't find the picture, but this is the link to screwfix where I bought it from: https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im-arc140-10-115-140a-arc-welder-240v/17497?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-powertools-_-arcwelders&_requestid=715289#product_additional_details_container
I know it's shit, but I don't want to go spending hundreds on something that I might never get the hang of, so £80 is like spare change at the moment.
The one I bought I can reverse the leads (don't know if it says that in the description), but at the moment I'm keeping everything plugged in where it should be (even though I've watched videos explaining about electron flow etc.)


That's an AC welder. Reversing the leads won't do anything but the fact they are removable means you can fit new ones when you damage the old. Thumbs Up

That machine is perfectly usable. Have fun with it. If you get the bug then upgrade to a more versatile machine. If not, just play at sticking pieces of metal together!
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Chinaboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:46 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy, I imagine the rods you have are too big (diameter) for the material thickness you are trying to weld.

The first thing you need to try and do is maintain an arc. As you tap or strike the rod the arc will start, but as it burns off try to keep the arc length the same. The higher the amps the faster the burn, the quicker you need to react to keep the arc the same length. To start with, the best method to learn is a straight 'run', master this first. Angle the rod about 20 degrees from vertical and make sure you keep your arm free of any obstructions because the rod is getting shorter. Sounds easy, and is really, it's just practice.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

andyscooter
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 May 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:13 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

welding thread needs more upsidedown four thou fishfinger shit geysers Laughing
____________________
gilera runner vxr200 (chavped)
if its spelt wrong its my fat fingers and daft auto correct on my tablet
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:10 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

2.5mm rods and 1mm steel? The impressive thing is that you didn't burn completely through on every run. Thumbs Up
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

colink98
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:14 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

auto masks are cheap enough off the interwebs plus you can get cool designs to make you look the business.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welding-Helmets/b?ie=UTF8&node=1939591031

after that its practice practice and more practice.

i find the rod sticks less if you pull rather than push.
but im not sure if one way is good/bad ?
____________________
PCX125 (stolen) - CBF600 (current)
Ride it like you stole it.
ride sensible and not like an idiot and you wont get 6 points in one week.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:44 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinK98 wrote:
i find the rod sticks less if you pull rather than push.
but im not sure if one way is good/bad ?

When striking? I read my City and Guilds (in the library before the internets) and it recommended tapping the rod to strike the arc. But I've always found it easier to draw the rod slowly across the work piece at a narrow angle until it catches. Less accurate in where you start the weld, but less sticking.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

andym
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:41 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Day 2 of destroying some metal.

While waiting for the thinner rods to arrive I decided to do the next best thing.... get some thicker metal.... So I went to the local scrap metal yard and explained what I was doing, so I found these bits and gave the guy a couple of quid for them.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0619_zpsk8ffer0u.jpg

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0621_zpsfzh9vygg.jpg
The 4 (and a bit) diagonal lines were my first attempt (at around 65 amps) and it was a lot easier to work than the thin metal, I need to concentrate on the speed I'm moving the rod though.... also I think it was Polarbear that said about resting the insulation against the metal, I tried that and it did make a big difference as I don't have the steadiest of hands.... although again it will take a bit of practice to get that right.... after that it all went downhill as you can tell by the rest of the welding on that piece.

I also tried joining 2 bits together:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0624_zpsem07txsy.jpg
OK the rod was all over the place, but I did manage to tack it and do a bit of welding under there, but because the gap was so large I decided to try filling it.... and that was the result.

Finally, after messing up those bits (I need to get some new discs for the grinder so I can clean it all off again), I decided to have another go at putting some lines on the thin metal:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0622_zpsm80yicao.jpg

Only problem now is that I'm working until Saturday night, so that's the practice over with til then, on the plus side my mask, gloves, rods and clamps should have arrived by then.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Chinaboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:09 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your amps were too low on the thicker material, try and find the right amps, up or down a bit. Also listen to the sound it makes. When stick welding imagine some bacon in a frying pan, a nice even sizzling noise is what you are after. Looking at your attempts so far, you are very unsteady. Now, most experienced welders can do this with one hand, you learn to be steady and accurate, you can however use your other hand to support the one holding the torch, but remember you need a full stick's length of travel with both hands as the stick gets shorter.

Another thing to remember is the 'slag' or flux that covers the hot weldment. Please always wear safety glasses as this has a tendency to explode off or the hot weld and can get in your eyes. Always be safe. Now the slag covers the weld as it cools to protect it from the oxygen in the ambient atmosphere, but it needs to be completely removed before you add to the weld again. If you don't do this you will have an inclusion in the weld which makes it weak and a possible break point. A chipping hammer and a stiff wire brush will remove the slag and prep for continuation. Also good to see you cleaned the rust/corrosion from the plate before you welded as this will also prevent a good weld.

Good luck for next time. Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Chinaboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:12 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, another thing. You must be able to see clearly what you are doing. A lot of new welders are a little scared of the spatter or heat and do things at arm's length. Get your head close, and to the side of the stick so you can see exactly what you are doing. Looking down the length of the stick does not allow you to see what you are doing.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:15 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are moving the rod way too fast. The weld puddle should be about twice the diameter of the rod and when it hardens the shape of the weld bands should be half moon and not V shaped.

Much better on those diagonal welds though. Thumbs Up

https://www.weldguru.com/images/stick-weld-examples.jpg
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

colink98
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 27 Jun 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:51 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
ColinK98 wrote:
i find the rod sticks less if you pull rather than push.
but im not sure if one way is good/bad ?

When striking? I read my City and Guilds (in the library before the internets) and it recommended tapping the rod to strike the arc. But I've always found it easier to draw the rod slowly across the work piece at a narrow angle until it catches. Less accurate in where you start the weld, but less sticking.


yes when striking pull in the direction of the weld.
i know what you mean about it being less accurate but it seems as soon as you get an arc its easy enough to move the rod back an inch to the start and get an arc straight away.
____________________
PCX125 (stolen) - CBF600 (current)
Ride it like you stole it.
ride sensible and not like an idiot and you wont get 6 points in one week.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

scorps
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:57 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's fish finger man when you need him!
____________________
Do not presume that I am male.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:32 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

scorps wrote:
Where's fish finger man when you need him!


He wouldn't comment on a thread for amateur welders, I mean, 4 thou? We are talk 4 mm here Laughing
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

andym
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:20 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe one day I'll be welding with fish fingers in a geyser of shit.... upside down Rolling Eyes

Thanks for the advice Polarbear, the one thing I noticed in your comments was about the mask, since it's a cheap welder it is a hand held mask that was included, so I have to either use my knee to steady my hand (which as Chinaboy has mentioned) means I get nice and close.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:26 - 04 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welding, as a sport or pastime, is as much of a money pit as motorcycling or a fairly decent cocaine habit.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 7 years, 177 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 0.07 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 143.2 Kb