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CVT gearbox skipping when changing gear

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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: CVT gearbox skipping when changing gear Reply with quote

I have a Suzuki Address automatic 110cc scooter. It's one year old and today started happening something strange with the gear box (my guess).When the bike is in stand still and I start accelerating slowly or rapidly, it starts smoothly and then between the first and the second gear I feel like a skip happening at the back-wheel. The feeling is like it looses power and then it pulls again. This doesn't happen on any other occasion. I changed the gear oil 3 moths ago, I used the Castrol engine oil in it.

Does anyone have a clue what could be the issue?

Thanks
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it still under guarantee? If so, take straight back to dealers.
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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Is it still under guarantee? If so, take straight back to dealers.


My warranty is voided because I didn't want to service it at the dealer, I thought it's new and it should last for at least 3 years without issues, but this is one of many problems that have appeared. The scooter is a complete trash.

I hope someone have idea what could be wrong.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that they weren't allow to void a warranty if you don't have it dealer serviced, as long as you use a VAT registered garage and they use OEM parts.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I don't know the scoot I'm reasonable sure its a twist and go
so no first, second or any other 'gears' as such

There is usually a centrifugal clutch on the rear wheel which may be slipping or have dust in the casing causing erratic problems
It might need a new rubber band or rollers for all we know

I wouldn't say a scoots trash over such a minor problem as they're all pretty easy to whip apart and sort out
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G
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweaty_Doughnut wrote:

My warranty is voided because I didn't want to service it at the dealer, I thought it's new and it should last for at least 3 years without issues, but this is one of many problems that have appeared. The scooter is a complete trash.

Did you have it serviced at all?

How many miles have you done?

There's a reason they have a service schedule - yes, some of it isn't need most of the time, but for the most part there's good reasons it's there apart from to put cash in their pockets.
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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Sweaty_Doughnut wrote:

My warranty is voided because I didn't want to service it at the dealer, I thought it's new and it should last for at least 3 years without issues, but this is one of many problems that have appeared. The scooter is a complete trash.

Did you have it serviced at all?

How many miles have you done?

There's a reason they have a service schedule - yes, some of it isn't need most of the time, but for the most part there's good reasons it's there apart from to put cash in their pockets.


Yeap, I did everything according to the manual, I just don't trust the mechanics. The reason I said bike is trash is because it was recalled for 4 faults and also it had knocking sound in steering head since I bought it. I replaced the steering bearing because the dealer asked £300.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweaty_Doughnut wrote:
The reason I said bike is trash is because it was recalled for 4 faults and also it had knocking sound in steering head since I bought it. I replaced the steering bearing because the dealer asked £300.


You replaced the steering bearings yourself on a brand new scoot?

Does the dealer have video of you dropping the front end hard or something?
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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Sweaty_Doughnut wrote:
The reason I said bike is trash is because it was recalled for 4 faults and also it had knocking sound in steering head since I bought it. I replaced the steering bearing because the dealer asked £300.


You replaced the steering bearings yourself on a brand new scoot?

Does the dealer have video of you dropping the front end hard or something?


He just said since I missed the 2500 miles service he can't do it under warranty. It was a good learning experience though. I didn't expect to have further issues but here we go again with the gear box Sad
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G
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you check the steering head bearings yourself when you serviced it?
Did it mention to do this in the service manual? Normally they're checked at the first service.

None of that sounds like 'trash'.
That it was recalled, while it does point to some issues, is a good thing that they're sorting stuff out.

I'm a bit confused by you mentioning first and second gear. While some CVTs do offer fake gears, I can't see this bike having done so.

Further; had a look into it more; looks like a traditional scooter transmission.
First off... did you really change the gearbox oil and if so, what exact engine oil did you put in there?
That would definitely cause some issues I expect, presuming it works as all other similar bikes do! Smile

Then... have you adjusted anything with the 'gearbox'? I would expect there are some checks in the service manual to do so.

Do you have a copy of the workshop manual you used for servicing?
I rather suspect you haven't serviced it correctly from what you're saying, which is why you've had these issues - and that being the case, very reasonably why they're refusing a warranty claim.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweaty_Doughnut wrote:

He just said since I missed the 2500 miles service he can't do it under warranty. It was a good learning experience though. I didn't expect to have further issues but here we go again with the gear box Sad


I would expect steering bearings to last in the 10s of thousands of miles. Looks like you are a fool for 1) listening to your dealer and 2) trying to do the work yourself when you are clearly out of your league.
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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Sweaty_Doughnut wrote:

He just said since I missed the 2500 miles service he can't do it under warranty. It was a good learning experience though. I didn't expect to have further issues but here we go again with the gear box Sad


I would expect steering bearings to last in the 10s of thousands of miles. Looks like you are a fool for 1) listening to your dealer and 2) trying to do the work yourself when you are clearly out of your league.


Support me man Smile. We should all do the service ourselves. Dealers are ripping us off and they don't treat the bike with respect that you would.
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G
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweaty_Doughnut wrote:

Support me man Smile. We should all do the service ourselves. Dealers are ripping us off and they don't treat the bike with respect that you would.

Not everyone should.
Perfectly reasonable if approached sensibly however.

Though, personally I would pay a garage to keep a warranty - only time I've paid to have a bike serviced was for that very reason.

But in this case, it does seem that the problems you're describing come directly from your 'servicing'!

If you answer the questions I asked in the last past, we might be able to help.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you trust any mechanics or dealers, or even even specialist engineering firms or competition shops?

The reason I ask, is that your posts so far make you sound really quite deranged to most people.

To fix your CVT transmission issues, you will almost certainly only need a new belt and a set of new rollers for the variatior too. This work is an hours job at the most for the competent home enthusiast.

You will need a safe and secure way of undoing the nut holding on the front pulley, while you undo the centre nut.
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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 20 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Do you trust any mechanics or dealers, or even even specialist engineering firms or competition shops?

The reason I ask, is that your posts so far make you sound really quite deranged to most people.

To fix your CVT transmission issues, you will almost certainly only need a new belt and a set of new rollers for the variatior too. This work is an hours job at the most for the competent home enthusiast.

You will need a safe and secure way of undoing the nut holding on the front pulley, while you undo the centre nut.


Thanks for the advice stevo. And you are right, I don't trust unless I watch while they are doing it. This didn't happen without reason. I took the scoot for 1st service to official Suzuki dealer and they overfilled it with oil. It was quite bad smell that was coming out. I paid for that 60 pounds (40 minutes of work), I can bet that they only change the oil and charge you a fortune. I prefer to take it to the mechanic only when there is no chance I can fix it myself and for that reason I ask you guys for an opinion.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt any of us have a particularly high regard for dealerships but at the same time when you have bought a new vehicle you are a complete mong if you let the warranty invalidate due to trying to save a few pennies.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh but a warranty is there for your benefit.

As far as what's wrong, my knowledge of variomatics is solely what I have read on the internet so I won't be giving you any advice. Oh and your statement - I prefer to take it to the mechanic only when there is no chance I can fix it myself

I think you just hit that brick wall.
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G
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again; if you could answer the points in here, we might be able to help:
G wrote:
Did you check the steering head bearings yourself when you serviced it?
Did it mention to do this in the service manual? Normally they're checked at the first service.

None of that sounds like 'trash'.
That it was recalled, while it does point to some issues, is a good thing that they're sorting stuff out.

I'm a bit confused by you mentioning first and second gear. While some CVTs do offer fake gears, I can't see this bike having done so.

Further; had a look into it more; looks like a traditional scooter transmission.
First off... did you really change the gearbox oil and if so, what exact engine oil did you put in there?
That would definitely cause some issues I expect, presuming it works as all other similar bikes do! Smile

Then... have you adjusted anything with the 'gearbox'? I would expect there are some checks in the service manual to do so.

Do you have a copy of the workshop manual you used for servicing?
I rather suspect you haven't serviced it correctly from what you're saying, which is why you've had these issues - and that being the case, very reasonably why they're refusing a warranty claim.
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Bloggsy
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

all my bikes and cars are bought new and are dealer serviced until the warranty expires the bikes are always serviced by me and is then serviced by a marque specialist for the particular make of car. You say you don't trust the mechanics is a silly thing to say, but your stupidity is now gonna cost. Sad
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I doubt any of us have a particularly high regard for dealerships but at the same time when you have bought a new vehicle you are a complete mong if you let the warranty invalidate due to trying to save a few pennies.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh but a warranty is there for your benefit


I did all my own servicing on my ER6 from new and it was still covered under warranty.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I doubt any of us have a particularly high regard for dealerships but at the same time when you have bought a new vehicle you are a complete mong if you let the warranty invalidate due to trying to save a few pennies.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh but a warranty is there for your benefit


I did all my own servicing on my ER6 from new and it was still covered under warranty.


His isn't
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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Again; if you could answer the points in here, we might be able to help:
G wrote:
Did you check the steering head bearings yourself when you serviced it?
Did it mention to do this in the service manual? Normally they're checked at the first service.

None of that sounds like 'trash'.
That it was recalled, while it does point to some issues, is a good thing that they're sorting stuff out.

I'm a bit confused by you mentioning first and second gear. While some CVTs do offer fake gears, I can't see this bike having done so.

Further; had a look into it more; looks like a traditional scooter transmission.
First off... did you really change the gearbox oil and if so, what exact engine oil did you put in there?
That would definitely cause some issues I expect, presuming it works as all other similar bikes do! Smile

Then... have you adjusted anything with the 'gearbox'? I would expect there are some checks in the service manual to do so.

Do you have a copy of the workshop manual you used for servicing?
I rather suspect you haven't serviced it correctly from what you're saying, which is why you've had these issues - and that being the case, very reasonably why they're refusing a warranty claim.


Sorry, I didn't see this message somehow.

So, the steering bearing is now fine (I fixed it) Smile but on first service they didn't check/say anything and I didn't mention it. I have CVT transmission and I know it doesn't have gears but you can feel a slight difference when it starts to pull stronger, which I consider a second gear. I didn't make any adjustments on the gear box and finding a service manual for my exact model is impossible as it exists only on Suzuki's website for dealers. I used Castrol engine oil 10-40w for the Gear Box, however it was MA rating rather than MB Smile. If I understood correctly from the attached image, engine oil should be used for the gearbox.

I have also spoken with the dealer today, they told me that it is not unusual for the belt to get worn out after 7k miles.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

7000 miles of possibly stop start use is bloody excellent for a belt to last IMO.

My mind is slightly warped from bad memories of one of my own twist and go's. I had a Peugeot speedfight tuned to just about 12bhp, and I snapped a new belt after 2000km! As well as locking up the back wheel for a while it made a hell of a mess of everything inside the transmission case.
To be fair though there was not one part of that scooter that I didn't mess with/modify/improve or more likely fuck up.

But belts are cheap, and easy to replace, so I'd do them a bit sooner than the schedule especially if your doing lots of stop start riding.etc.
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Sweaty_Doughnut
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
7000 miles of possibly stop start use is bloody excellent for a belt to last IMO.

My mind is slightly warped from bad memories of one of my own twist and go's. I had a Peugeot speedfight tuned to just about 12bhp, and I snapped a new belt after 2000km! As well as locking up the back wheel for a while it made a hell of a mess of everything inside the transmission case.
To be fair though there was not one part of that scooter that I didn't mess with/modify/improve or more likely fuck up.

But belts are cheap, and easy to replace, so I'd do them a bit sooner than the schedule especially if your doing lots of stop start riding.etc.


Stevo, do you think I should only replace the belt without the rollers? And yes, it is stop start use only, I ride only within the London's first 3 zones Smile
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Jerky power delivery and the steps your feeling like different gears are probably more due to flat spotted rollers than the belt, so change both while your in there makes sense.

The parts are not expensive, and once you've got the centre nut off to change the belt, the front pulley will slide off the crank easily enough, to allow you to remove the retaining plate and get the rollers out.

I bet they are pretty worn after 7k as though twist and go CVT transmissions can be really great for stop start use it does put alot of strain on little plastic weighted rollers, as it's constantly moving in/out to keep the engine near peak power rpm until the gearing is maxxed out.

You should easily do the job in a hour or so, don't forget to tighten up the centre nut properly, and blow out any rubber/dust from.the old belt that the cases will probably be full of by now. Its probably worth checking for wear on the clutch shoes visually through the clutch bell, as eventually probably after a few belt changes the clutch shoes will need replacing also.I
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

as stevo has said,
rollers,
get familiar with how the cvt works, its so simple.
rollers and belts dont last forever,

roller sets and belts are super cheap,

you'll also need a rattle gun to undo the variator
or some way of stopping it moving,

pretty much all scooters are the same in the way they work. get a manual to any scooter if you cant find one specific to you
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