Speeding: Officers "Opinion" Fight or not? UPDATED

[owl10]

Hello Forum!

I am hoping for some advice regarding an alleged speeding offence (in the car...).

I'll keep the post as short and objective as possible starting with a transcript of the report I was given at the roadside, followed by an incident summary and then 3 questions:


I have received a yellow roadside Traffic Offence Report (longish Yellow sheet) in attachment and as below:

Transcript (All as exactly on form):

Offences under consideration: "Excess 50 Mph"
Location: Aust Road, Bristol

Recorded Speed : " - "
Distance: " - "

Device Used: "Opinion"

Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) Offence Verbal : Box ticked.

Reply after caution "I don't think i was"


Incident Summary:

Date :29th Jan 2016
Time ~16:00
Visibility / conditions: Overcast, Clear visibility, low traffic (Country 'B' road).

50MPH Limit B road:
I was traveling in one direction, a police car with a solitary officer was traveling in the opposite direction.
The officer flashed his headlights at me as i passed.
The officer completed a U Turn, and pulled me over.
The officer walked to my window and the converstaion porceeded as follows:

Officer: "I dont know how fast you were going but it was far in excess of the stated speed limit, I am going to report you for an offence"
Officer: "...[Caution]..."
Me "I dont think i was" [Speeding].

The officer took my licence, filled out the form, and suggested he was recommending me to go to driver / speed awareness and that a decision would be made (by central ticket office..?) and 'someone' would be in contact whether to prosecute, offer a FPN, or offer the awareness course.

I asked the officer what this decision would be based on

Officer: "my opinion".

I asked the officer if there was any video evidence

He avoided the question and told me he'd "been a traffic officer for 15 years, argue it with a judge if you like" however I had the impression that there wasn't video evidence

The traffic car had some kind of recording device in the front windscreen, however I could not say whether it was operating.

I smiled, said nothing more, signed the form and left.

Thanks for bearing with me so far:

My questions (Borg?!!):

Can a single officer 'expert opinion' gain a successful prosecution alone with no corroborating evidence?
Should i fight it in court? If so, is there any supporting case law?
If offered the course is it wise to simply take it to avoid the whole going to court etc etc thing?

All advice greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
O.
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[Nobby the Bastard]

[Andy_Pagin]

[owl10]

[owl10]

[J4mes]

[stinkwheel]

Pretty sure they can't go on one uncorroborated oppinion (but in England can go on a measured speed witnessed by one person).

Chapter and verse

[Ste]

fite

[stinkwheel]

I'm not currently aware of any home office approved devices that are approved to measure the speed of an oncoming car from a moving vehicle?

Anyone know different?
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[Kickstart]

Hi

Possibly depends on what offence they want to get you for.

Speeding probably not (believe they need the corroborated opinion of a police officer - corroboration could be another police officer, calibrated speedo, etc).

But there might be grounds to get you for driving without due care or the like.

Years ago a friend got a ticket for no specific speed, rather 'above 40'. Give he had been doing about 95 and left a police car he hadn't noticed for dead he didn't argue

All the best

Katy
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[Rogerborg]

[Nobby the Bastard]

Just realised that you got stopped in Bristol.

There seems to be a cockwomble in Bristol.

He followed my exup for 5 miles (I dread to think how badly he drove to keep up with me in traffic) to tell me that 1) overtaking in zig-zags is illegal (it's not) and 2) I wasn't filtering I was 'overtaking in a built up area' and 3) I was overaccelerating (5 miles through traffic) and overbraking (rear brake only).

Did you try and argue with him?




Edit


Thinking about it, he's probably going around bragging about all the bikers he's going after cause I got chased (not knoweldgeably by me) frm Filton to the M32 today. It's the only explanation as to why a cop car waiting on a red light a Filton could be 3 cars behind me on the M32 despite me filtering through traffic.

Was expecting me to run and when I didn't, got bored and fucked off.

My advice, listen and let him spunk his load, don't agree with anything.
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[Pete.]

My brother got nicked for speeding in his car. Two coppers travelling in the opposite direction. His solicitor told him they were trying it on and to fight it, he ended up with 5 points in the magistrates court. The cops gave evidence that they estimated he was doing at least 60mph.

Note that was 2 cops giving corroborating opinions. One cop on his own I would deffo take my chances in court.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Rockhopper]

If you go to court and fight it you'll be dangerously close to calling the Police Officer a liar which never goes down well with the judge.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[owl10]

[Rogerborg]

[Kleftiwallah]

" I don't think I was". Never, never admit to a hint of a doupt about your driving.

"I was travelling at 28 mph Officer because on seening the police car made me check my speed, this is a natural reaction"

May have put P.C. Plod on the back foot.

Cheers, I should fight it. Tony.

[grr666]

Thanks for the heads up about that stretch of road.
I'll avoid it.
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[JP7]

It is your word against the officer's. However, don't forget that he has to prove you were speeding... you don't have to prove you weren't.

The opinion of a long-serving traffic officer can be enough to secure a conviction because of their experience of judging speed. He doesn't have to pin you to a speed, only that you were in excess of the limit. If he can demonstrate his experience as a traffic officer, and give a credible reason as to why he knew you were speeding (overtaking another car, clearly travelling faster than everything else on the road, etc.) then it can sometimes stick. He doesn't have to have another officer corroborate it, or other equipment... but it makes it easier for them to prove it when they do.

However, in your defence you can say that he was travelling in the opposite direction, and therefore he would have had only a very short space of time in which to judge your speed. Part of the case will be how long you were in his view for.

It may get dropped by CPS if you go not guilty. Or they might run with it. If they do run with it, make sure you turn up at court, otherwise the case can be heard in your absence, and you can be sure he will turn up, so only his evidence gets heard.

There is no certainty either way unfortunately.

[Vincent]

Maybe this one's moonlighting at the awareness course....

So they can just say that they think you were speeding now That's not open to much abuse then, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty

Judge: "..and how do you know he was speeding if you were travelling in the other direction....officer "

Pig: "Cos he looked like it me lud"
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[Evil Hans]

Ask the experts over at Pepipoo ...
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[Rogerborg]

[Ichy]

[Jewlio Rides Again LLB]

Not speeding, however.

Mrs Jew's brother got summons for not wearing a seat belt the best part of a year ago, 'witnessed' by a single copper, late at night. He pleaded not guilty, appeared in court.

Promptly bent over by the judge after the copper attended.

He did deserve it though, he's a bit of a shithouse at times.
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