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High Mileage First Bike

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Ste
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PostPosted: 01:47 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

throwyourbike wrote:
That's what I thought to be honest but I didn't argue

You were the one committing an offence and it's your provisional license that would get the points.

Either the CBT guy didn't know what he was doing or he took intentionally took you out on a bike he knew you weren't allowed to ride. Shocked
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throwyourbike
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
throwyourbike wrote:
That's what I thought to be honest but I didn't argue

You were the one committing an offence and it's your provisional license that would get the points.

Either the CBT guy didn't know what he was doing or he took intentionally took you out on a bike he knew you weren't allowed to ride. Shocked


Really? I wasn't aware of that. If I had of known I would have called him out. I just took it for granted that he knew best, I didn't want to start arguing with him.

What's done is done now though I guess.
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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 07:24 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
throwyourbike wrote:
That's what I thought to be honest but I didn't argue

You were the one committing an offence and it's your provisional license that would get the points.

Either the CBT guy didn't know what he was doing or he took intentionally took you out on a bike he knew you weren't allowed to ride. Shocked


There is the third option that what the OP said never actually happened, but I wouldn't want to cast doubt on what he said...
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faffergotgunz
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PostPosted: 07:44 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or the forth option, that the Gladius is actually a giant Ferret with a racing saddle ane he spent the afternoon cruising around B roads wearing a top hat.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 08:28 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seems statistically more likely.
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throwyourbike
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PostPosted: 08:39 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpe_diem wrote:
There is the third option that what the OP said never actually happened, but I wouldn't want to cast doubt on what he said...


Do you know what? Forget it.

I've never known such an arrogant group of people in all my life.

I came here as a new rider needing some advice and 99% of the responses haven't helped in the slightest. If anything they have made me question if I want to ride a bike at all.

Thank you to the handful of people who did try to help, I really appreciate it.

I won't be back.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 08:49 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

special snowflake alert Laughing
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

throwyourbike wrote:
carpe_diem wrote:
There is the third option that what the OP said never actually happened, but I wouldn't want to cast doubt on what he said...


Do you know what? Forget it.

I've never known such an arrogant group of people in all my life.

I came here as a new rider needing some advice and 99% of the responses haven't helped in the slightest. If anything they have made me question if I want to ride a bike at all.

Thank you to the handful of people who did try to help, I really appreciate it.

I won't be back.


To be honest, if you can't deal with a bit of piss taking (this is mild), then you don't want to socialise with most bikers.

As for your flounce off, try harder, you can do better. You're reading this, you didn't try hard enough.
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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fucking hell. Bit of an overreaction? I was just suggesting that it was highly questionable that someone who was trained and certified to administer CBT would be stupid enough to let someone go out illegally and uninsured on one of their bikes after a morning of tuition on a different bike.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

throwyourbike wrote:
I won't be back.
Possibly redundant of you don't, but FWIW
throwyourbike wrote:
I came here as a new rider needing some advice and 99% of the responses haven't helped in the slightest. If anything they have made me question if I want to ride a bike at all

Most advice you have been offered has been sound advice; only reason its not 'helped' is that it's not advice you want to hear.

125 cruisers are significantly style over substance. I would actually be less put off by one with miles on it than one without; means it's been ridden, and the owner by hook or by crook has probably had to do some proper maintenance on the thing rather than just wheel it in and out the garage to polish on the drive when the neighbors are cleaning the Mondeo's.

Cruisers, as a genre aren't the best newbie bikes; the riding position doesn't have the best ergonomics for control or visibility or often even comfort. Small displacement ones, with little engine's that need to be revved to get at any power, and have the gears worked hard to put it to use, don't even 'cruise', where a large displacement twin, is usually used so that it has chunk loads of low down 'grunt' so it doesn't have to be revved and can be treated almost like an automatic.

NOW, I usually advocate time on a tiddler, they can be a great way to get some very useful early learning; thier light weight and low power make them more demanding bikes to ride and demand and instill a certain level of riding finesse and discipline, riders starting out via DAS on bigger bikes often never learn.

BUT... L-Plate cruiserettes, with ergonomics compromised for style, diminish that possible advantage; whilst costs also compromised for that style, eliminate a lot of the other usual advantage of lightweights in simple being 'cheap'.

Two suggestions for you; IF you really cant bear the thought of riding something as utilitarian and unpretentious as a YBR125, and you HAVE to have that 'style' straight off the stops; THEN bite the bullet; book a DAS course; get a full ride what you like licence, and go buy whatever chrome cafe crawler takes your fancy. IF you want to spend some time on a tiddler and get some early learning on... re-calibrate your imagination and your ego; and get a bike to do THAT job, which is likely YBR shaped.

If you wish to carry on as you are; only wanting us to affirm your assumptions, NOT 'learn'..anything... then yeah... give up or carry on doing whatever you 'think' seems right; but you wont learn a damn thing, except by accident... and that tends to hurt when a motorbike is involved, so don't come crying when it does looking for anyone else to blame.

Best of luck with it....
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bamt
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I thought it was OK to ride a big bike on your CBT, subject (of course) to being old enough and under supervision of and in radio contact with an instructor. I've heard of this happening before, but with a quick search couldn't find anything definitive to say you can or can't.

Links to definitive rules would be nice.
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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, Bamt - if that's the case I apologise.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly don't know that it is the case, just that I couldn't find anything to confirm or deny. There is a general assumption in most websites that CBT is done on a 50cc or 125cc, but that is as much about people wanting a CBT so they can pootle around on their own on L plates or having a light bike for first training - and training schools wanting their cheapest, fully crash-barred bikes to take the initial brunt of being dropped.

The CBT syllabus and guidance notes make no mention at all about engine sizes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/377662/compulsory-basic-training-cbt-syllabus-and-guidance-notes.pdf
And nowhere on the .gov site says you are limited (other than by age) as to what you can ride during the CBT
https://www.gov.uk/vehicles-can-drive/y/motorbike-categories-a1-a2-and-a/24-or-over

So I'm not saying this is the case, just that I can't see anything that says it is. There may well be some rule somewhere that I've not seen.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: High Mileage First Bike Reply with quote

Quoted before posts get edited. Wink

throwyourbike wrote:
Hi everyone,

Recently got my CBT certificate and am looking for a bike to ride over winter to build my confidence before going for my full test next year.

I have my heart set on a cruiser style bike so am in the market for a Honda Shadow, Yamaha XVS or Suzuki Intruder.

Spotted a 2003 Yamaha 125 Virago at a local dealer so went and took a look.

First impressions were good, the bike was in great condition, even the chrome was near perfect, however it has 29k miles on the clock.
The dealer is looking for £1,200 which I think is a bit much.

I know it all comes down to how the bike has been maintained but generally speaking what are your thoughts? Is it worthwhile considering or should I run a mile?
I don't intend to use the bike to commute, just the odd Sunday morning cruise.

throwyourbike wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Because you haven't ridden one.

Small capacity cruisers are awful. They're heavy, slow, handle badly, and sound pathetic.


I did my CBT on a Suzuki Gladius and didn't like it at all, those kind of bikes just aren't for me.

I would like a Harley Forty-Eight but even if I had my full license there's no way I would sink £10k into my first bike.

throwyourbike wrote:
ThatDippyTwat wrote:
This.

Cheap enough in comparison, Spares are easily available, and you can resell it without issues when you pass.


I totally get your reasoning but I just don't think I'd have any desire to ride a YBR.

throwyourbike wrote:
M.C wrote:
30k for a bike is (generally) equivalent to 100k for a car IMO. Check how many previous owners its had, my 125 was on 27k with lots of owners, and it was a horrible bodge fest.


Yeah that's my concern. I will maybe go back this week and take a closer look at the paperwork.

I was genuinely shocked to see the mileage though as it seems to be in really good condition.
I had read that the chrome is fairly poor quality and to expect it to look pretty scrappy but I have to say I couldn't fault it.

throwyourbike wrote:

throwyourbike wrote:
ThatDippyTwat wrote:

You're (hopefully) not going to be on it for long. You probably won't be on your first "big" bike for long either. Get what makes financial sense until you can get something that grabs you by your 'nads and screams "BUY ME BITCH!" in your face at full volume.


You're right.

He's my thinking. I decided to learn to ride a bike because I've always wanted a Harley. Sportsbikes have never really appealed to me.
I went and did my CBT on both a 125 Honda Varadero and a 650 Suzuki Gladius.
The Gladius was much easier to ride than the Varadero but I can't say I enjoyed either of them very much.

I want to buy a cruiser style bike because that's the kind of thing that appealed to me from the start.
If it turns out I don't enjoy that much either then I will have to rethink the whole thing.

However if I enjoy the cruiser I can go back, do a few more lessons, get my full license and upgrade to something better. Quite like the look of the new XVS950.

Thanks for your help and sensible responses, it's much appreciated.

throwyourbike wrote:
NJD wrote:
Size of the bloody thing. Looks like a lot to drag around. Shocked

That foot-brake position, so forward. There's not a meme to even come close to my puzzled face in an attempt to get used to its location. Enjoy winter crud / road crap jamming up the brake spraying directly into the pivot points etc. Looks like footpegs been through the wars. I'd be checking other parts for similar marks and or wear and tear.

Handlebar design. Sick


Haha, I have to say, the brake actually felt much more natural to me than on the Gladius.
I also loved how low the seat was.
I would agree that the bars are a tad fugly but they felt right.

throwyourbike wrote:
Alpineandy wrote:
Well you learn something new every day...
I really didn't know they made a 125 Gladius.


Can't work out if you're being sarcastic or not....

To clarify, I'm 30 years old, I did the first couple of hours on a 125 Varadero, since I managed that ok the instructor put me on a 650 Gladius for the rest of the CBT.

throwyourbike wrote:
Thank you for your advice Tawny.

I have rode bicycles at a professional level for many years so understand that basics are very important.

I honestly think I'd rather never ride a motorbike again than have to ride the likes of the Varadero for the next few months though, haha.

throwyourbike wrote:
Ste wrote:
Presumably you were back on the 125 for the road part of the CBT?


Nope.

I did the first half of the off road section on the Varadero, stopping, starting, clutch control etc.

Then I was put on the Gladius and did figure of eights, emergency stops etc.
Then we headed out on the road. Did a few miles around the countryside to start off, then around the city centre. Also a run down the dual carriageway at 60mph which was a bit daunting considering I'd been on a bike for a total of 5 hours at that point.

throwyourbike wrote:
Ste wrote:
Tut tut, to ride a bike bigger than 125 on the roads you need to already have a CBT and have L plates on the big bike whilst you're accompanied by a DSA Qualified Instructor who is in radio contact with you at all times.


That's what I thought to be honest but I didn't argue, was glad to get off the Varadero.
For the countryside run I followed him, then for the city section I was leading and he was giving me directions via radio.

throwyourbike wrote:
Ste wrote:
You were the one committing an offence and it's your provisional license that would get the points.

Either the CBT guy didn't know what he was doing or he took intentionally took you out on a bike he knew you weren't allowed to ride. Shocked


Really? I wasn't aware of that. If I had of known I would have called him out. I just took it for granted that he knew best, I didn't want to start arguing with him.

What's done is done now though I guess.

throwyourbike wrote:
carpe_diem wrote:
There is the third option that what the OP said never actually happened, but I wouldn't want to cast doubt on what he said...


Do you know what? Forget it.

I've never known such an arrogant group of people in all my life.

I came here as a new rider needing some advice and 99% of the responses haven't helped in the slightest. If anything they have made me question if I want to ride a bike at all.

Thank you to the handful of people who did try to help, I really appreciate it.

I won't be back.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

throwyourbike wrote:


I won't be back.


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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: High Mileage First Bike Reply with quote

throwyourbike wrote:
Alpineandy wrote:

Well you learn something new every day...
I really didn't know they made a 125 Gladius.

Can't work out if you're being sarcastic or not.....

If I was being sarcastic I would have used a Smiley of some sort.
I wasn't aware that you could do a CBT on anything above 125 and therefore assumed that there was a little Gladius I hadn't heard of.
Nothing more, nothing less.

As for riding a cruiser, you're clearly in love with the image but the reality (especially for new rider) is that they're not that great.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that went swimmingly.

Reading his responses it seemed he was fully set on the decision already and wanted us all to sing and dance around a fire while wearing hippy headbands and holding hands rather than providing an opinion different to the one he held.

<dramatic outro music>
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

A guy I used to know who worked in marketing for a major tobacco company (there are really only 2) once told me that all purchase decisions, without exception, are emotional. I don't know much about the psychology of marketing but I think he had a point.

Let's pretend this is 1974. We see a great television ad in which a strong, wealthy, popular guy smokes Marlboro cigarettes and enjoys the quintessential, idyllic American Dream in his life on the ranch. Gas-guzzling cars and bikes, countless acres of land, horses, a happy, healthy, family, unlimited Big Macs, silly hat, he has it all... Watching the advert, being impressed by all this stuff and how successful he is and how much he wins at life, we immediately go to the toy shop, bypassing the sweets and kids' toys, and head to the cigarette vending machine.

What do we see? Marlboro cigarettes, and 12 other brands. Which do we choose? Marlboro. It's an emotional decision, because the cigs inside the other packets are exactly the same. They're even made by the same company, at the same plant. Just the printing is different.

Now you've bought your cigarettes and 20 years later you've made yourself very sick. Do you admit your error? Sure, because you're that sick. You regret it. However, look back at why you made that decision, and you would tell everyone something like this:

"If I knew then what I know now, I would never have chosen to buy those cigarettes!"

Cruisers are just like that. The decision to buy them is always green and emotional, and they can hook you into unwise motorcycle life choices.
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faffergotgunz
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:
A guy I used to know who worked in marketing for a major tobacco company (there are really only 2) once told me that all purchase decisions, without exception, are emotional. I don't know much about the psychology of marketing but I think he had a point.

Let's pretend this is 1974. We see a great television ad in which a strong, wealthy, popular guy smokes Marlboro cigarettes and enjoys the quintessential, idyllic American Dream in his life on the ranch. Gas-guzzling cars and bikes, countless acres of land, horses, a happy, healthy, family, unlimited Big Macs, silly hat, he has it all... Watching the advert, being impressed by all this stuff and how successful he is and how much he wins at life, we immediately go to the toy shop, bypassing the sweets and kids' toys, and head to the cigarette vending machine.

What do we see? Marlboro cigarettes, and 12 other brands. Which do we choose? Marlboro. It's an emotional decision, because the cigs inside the other packets are exactly the same. They're even made by the same company, at the same plant. Just the printing is different.

Now you've bought your cigarettes and 20 years later you've made yourself very sick. Do you admit your error? Sure, because you're that sick. You regret it. However, look back at why you made that decision, and you would tell everyone something like this:

"If I knew then what I know now, I would never have chosen to buy those cigarettes!"

Cruisers are just like that. The decision to buy them is always green and emotional, and they can hook you into unwise motorcycle life choices.


Hear hear old boy. A truly interesting post I might say. However, one does have to disagree the delivery somewhat...

To put it frankly, one cannot compare a cruiser to a pack of cigarettes. A cruiser is a niche of motorcycle that adopts a unique style and rhythm of riding that can only be explained as THE idyllic stereotype of motorcycling.

An open road, a laid back style with the tune of a V twin engine. I talk of culture old boy, something most BFC cretins will simple never have. Wink
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

faffergotgunz wrote:
Hear hear old boy. A truly interesting post I might say. However, one does have to disagree the delivery somewhat...

To put it frankly, one cannot compare a cruiser to a pack of cigarettes. A cruiser is a niche of motorcycle that adopts a unique style and rhythm of riding that can only be explained as THE idyllic stereotype of motorcycling.

An open road, a laid back style with the tune of a V twin engine. I talk of culture old boy, something most BFC cretins will simple never have. Wink


Apologies for expressing it so badly. You're absolutely right, cruiser motorbikes are a real culture, they owe something to America, and they have a long history. However, in the UK they often tend to be ridden by people who know what they're doing, who have a lot of experience with motorbikes and can ride them and fix them fairly well.
It's just that they tend to be at the end of the fishing hook for beginners, for no good reason. What a beginner needs is the basics, mastering U-turns and figures of 8, and cruisers aren't ideal for those things. Cruisers can even make such maneuvres more difficult than they need to be. The beginner shouldn't think about trying to establish a personal motorcycling culture until the basics are down pat. It's a good thing for individuals to have preferences, and to have confidence in their own choices. But a 125 cruiser as a first bike shouldn't be encouraged. I know it's the norm in America to advise a cruiser-style small bike (Honda 250 Rebel) as a beginner bike. But the roads we have here are very different. As an experienced rider, you know these things and can compensate and adjust your style of riding easily, i.e. a cruiser is an informed decision for you. However, a beginner should go for a standard motorcycle design, so that further skills can be developed.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:
"If I knew then what I know now, I would never have chosen to buy those cigarettes!"

So in a moment of uncharacteristic brevity, what you are saying is; cruisers are like fags..... or has my dyslexia kicked in and I have the right words in sort of the wrong order?

faffergotgunz wrote:
A cruiser is a niche of motorcycle

dyslexia maybe kicking in again, did you really mean niche, or kitch?

The US motorcycle market, still the largest one in the world, consumes aproximately 3 cruiser style motorcycles out of every 5 sold. Most of them made in Milwake.

Selling strongly on the same exported american culture as BigMac's coke-a-cola and chicago style Pizza, the rest of the world markets absorb a similarly large proportion.

Over the counter production road-race bikes, competition ready trials bikes, and Moto-Guzzi's are 'niche' market motorcycles!

Not 'Cruisers' a description that could probably be applied to a third of all motorcycles ever made!!!!

faffergotgunz wrote:
that adopts a unique style and rhythm


Unique?!?! A style so common, and so commonly copied, the only variation seems to be simple repetition error!

And RYTHEM!?! from a mistimed close angle V, that has absolutely NO inherent balence and a tendancy to shake itself off the side stand if you don't hold it down?!?!?!?!?!?

faffergotgunz wrote:
of riding that can only be explained as THE idyllic stereotype of motorcycling


No... just no.. it simply CAN'T be explained! Certainly when you use words like 'unique' and 'rhythmic' and 'niche' so erroneously!

faffergotgunz wrote:
An open road, a laid back style with the tune of a V twin engine. I talk of culture old boy, something most BFC cretins will simple never have. Wink


I can empathize with the tune of a properly balanced, and lusty V-Twin engine... A Vincent, a Bevel drive Ducati, a Moto-Guzzi, crikey even a Morini 3&1/2!

But if I want to sit with my arse three inches off the deck, with my hands above my head, with no control over my destiny... I think I might take the slightly more comfy option of going over to Small Heath, and walking up the High Street chanting "Mohammad was a Ginger! He did it for a Joke!" And just surrender to ISIS!

Though I suspect that if I turned up on a cruiser they'd probably just feed me, as the mentally unstable are beloved of the prophet..... oooh..... BALTI! I could be onto something there! anyone got a Harley I could borrow for a few hours.... HK.. you aint used yours much this year.. fancy a good curry? Wink
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fags like cruisers.

If someone is showing an interest in cruisers then at that point they're only bike curious, they're not a real fag until they've got a Harley.

I'm not sure what that makes the OP. Laughing
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faffergotgunz
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikes are like sweets.

Non nom nom nom....
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

faffergotgunz wrote:
Non nom nom nom....

Confused what, they talk Latin with a stutter?
You must have suffered a Guzzi at some point Wink
I'm told there is a cure, but it involves a CX500 timing chain, and the dementure that can lead to, Guzzitisis is often the lesser of evils. Laughing
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Flatbadger
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading Hell's Angel leader Sonny Barger's book a while back and came across this gem (googled up nicely) -

'it has always been important for hells angles to ride american made machines. in terms of pure workmanship, personally i dont like harleys. i ride them cause i am in the club and and that is the image, but if i could, i would seriously consider riding a HONDA ST1100 or a bmw. we really missed the boat not switching over to the japanese models when they began building bigger bikes. ill usually say "fuck harley davidson". you can buy an ST1100 and the motherfucker will do 110 mph right from the factory all day long. while it is too late to switch over now, it would have been a nice move cause japenese bikes today are much cheaper and better built, however they dont have as much personaility.'
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