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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: CF650MT Reply with quote

Hi All

Well, WK have just announced that they will be stovking the new CF650MT from next year.

https://www.facebook.com/WKBikes/

https://img3.xcarimg.com/news/18367/20500/21366/640_480_20161020202342636945144152493.jpg

https://img2.xcarimg.com/news/18367/20500/21367/640_480_20161020202925518971093570448.jpg


The CF650MT is based on the Kawasaki ER6/Versys, but designed by Kiska (KTM)

Based on my experience with my 650TR, I will bed seriously considering this as a replacement for my RX-3 250.

Now, if only they'll bring the 650TR-G as well, then that will be my next 2 bikes sorted Smile
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first question - What's the quality likely to be? CBR125 pot metal? Platinum plated titanuim?

Rough estimate on price? I appreciate it's not a particularly fast or exciting bike, but it may fit the bill for a commuter, if it will accommodate a tall rider.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 23 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if the quality is anything like my 650TR, then can't see too many issues there. Also, if the qualirty matches the CF650TR-G, again, can't think of too many issues there, I know somene who rode a Tr-G from China to the UK & Back, all in all about 46000 KM, without issue, just carried out standard maintainance, had to replace the tyres and I think the chain once.

As for prices, I don't know, WK aren't showing any prices for it, needless to say, I'd be perfectly happy owning another CFMoto bike.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:24 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks nice.

The usual doom-mongering applies: keep it and ride it and you'll get stuffed on parts. Sell it on and you'll get stuffed on resale.

Winning strategy is to buy one then never ride or sell it. Whistle

On price, WK's form is to launch them high, see if anyone bites, and then start slashing the sticker price. The 650N launched at £4400 and is now £3300 (SALE!), the TR was a whopping £5200 and is now £3600 (SALE!). All plus OTR.

The local dealer got caught out by this and had bikes sitting around gathering dust while stickered significantly above the final SALE! prices. As usual, it was "take it or leave it, mate, that's the price." Unsurprisingly, WK bikes are no longer among the eleven (11) different brands that they're selling, which rather illustrates the problem with long term support.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roger

Initially i did have concerns with WK, however, having had to deal with them direct recently, for a new side panel, thanks to a white van man !!, but that's another story, and also a couple of months ago asking for some specs, they have definitely improved !

As to the info I requested, it was supplied quickly, and was correct, and the side panel, again, prompt delivery, all I need to do now, is find the time to replace the damaged panel !!

My CF650TR itself, runs really well, and I don't have any quality concerns. As for pricing, you may have a point, although, as was pointed out when a few of us met the chap from China, who rode a CF650TR-G over, and back, WK are actually selling the CF650's cheaper than they are for sale in China !! I do think WK, will have to price the MT competitively, especially considering the Honda CB500X is available new for about £5600, and looking at 2nd prices for CB500X's, doesn't seem to hold it's value too well.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's significant is that nobody appears to be offering discounts on the 'X', whereas there are usually bargains to be had on the 'F'.

That does suggest that there's still more demand for gripped-and-sorted 'adventure' bikes over the naked equivalent (heck, I got one), so WK might be able to shift some of these if they sort out their dealer issues.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
WK are actually selling the CF650's cheaper than they are for sale in China !


WK are selling an old model is why. This is the current one that costs more in China https://world.taobao.com/item/538589934949.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.q273DG#detail

I think part of their issue (in the UK) is they are trying to sell a clone of a boring, shit, horrible, hateful bike (ER6) and even at £3300 (which is a very attractive price for a new bike) all I can think is all the far more fun option I could get for less than that 2nd hand. Reckon they'd have done better cloning an SV.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each to their own ...

However, I wasn't especially interested in the 650NK, as I ride a TR, whether you find it boring or not, is of no concern to me, likewise, I don't see the appeal of an SV, whereas plenty of other do. Wheras, is Suzuki ever do release the DL250, now that looks a fun bike.

Anyhow, back to the 650MT, I like the look of it, and based on my experience with my 650TR, I'd have no issue with quality, or riding enjoyment, but, as I've said, they need to price it right, what with the CB500X being available at it's current price.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
boring, shit, horrible, hateful bike [...] SV.

Now BCF compliant. Whistle

Hyosung effectively cloned SV engines and frames for their 650s, and they didn't exactly fly out of showrooms.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I needed a commuter bike and these are Euro whatever compliant then it's one of the few 'non-mainstream' bike manufacturers that I'd take a good look at.
But it would have to be at the right (cheap) price... and probably used.
However I don't... Cool
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said all along if Kawasaki produced their own version of the 650TR I would seriously consider it.

As far as Chinese though, they still haven't convinced me but £3599 is stupid money for a new 650. Fucks sake, I could buy 3.5 for the price I paid for my Trophy, Laughing
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yeah, perhaps, but, if a bike can do 46000 KM, with no ill effects, no breakdowns, and only have to deal with the usual consumables, tyres, oil, chain etc, then I think they must be getting pretty close on both the reliability & quality front. Also, the 3 that rode the 650TR-G did so with very heavily loaded bikes, much more so that would usually be expected for normal day to day riding..

As I said, I'd have no qualms about owning another CFMoto.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
Hi

Yeah, perhaps, but, if a bike can do 46000 KM, with no ill effects, no breakdowns, and only have to deal with the usual consumables, tyres, oil, chain etc, then I think they must be getting pretty close on both the reliability & quality front. Also, the 3 that rode the 650TR-G did so with very heavily loaded bikes, much more so that would usually be expected for normal day to day riding..

As I said, I'd have no qualms about owning another CFMoto.


Actually that doesn't particularly convince me one way or the other. Those bikes will have been checked over meticulously and I expect picked out. If CFMoto had any idea of what was going to be done with their bikes they wouldn't want them fucking up big style.

What will convince me is when some spotty little oiks, with no motorcycle maintenance skills come on here and say their 125 has done 20,000 miles, left outside and still runs well a la CG and YBRs of the learner world.

I looked at a Benelli Tornado when they were selling them off cheap but I just couldn't justify the risk as much as I loved the looks (and the little fans on the tail).

Whether anything will ever result in me buying another one after the debacle my son had with his, I doubt it. If that makes me a luddite as far a Chinese bikes go, so be it. Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
As to the info I requested [from WK UK] it was supplied quickly

But, but "WK bikes here in the UK are useless & clueless."

No, really, "WK bikes here in the UK, really are useless, and really don't know the bike they sell.

Whistle
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
Hi Roger

Initially i did have concerns with WK, however, having had to deal with them direct recently, for a new side panel, thanks to a white van man !!, but that's another story, and also a couple of months ago asking for some specs, they have definitely improved !

As to the info I requested, it was supplied quickly, and was correct, and the side panel, again, prompt delivery, all I need to do now, is find the time to replace the damaged panel !!


As I said, initially I had concerns with WK, but over the last couple of months or so, much improved. Those comments are mine, from quite a while ago, May??, and at the time I made them, I'd stand by them. yes I did think, that CFMotos/WK Bikes biggest problem in the UK, was WK bikes !! However, I have seen a marked improvement in their customer service/ speed of and contents of their replies on their facebook page.
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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
wr6133 wrote:
boring, shit, horrible, hateful bike [...] SV.

Now BCF compliant. Whistle

Hyosung effectively cloned SV engines and frames for their 650s, and they didn't exactly fly out of showrooms.

Probably didn't help that they cloned a 90s engine, then dumped it into an 80s frame, and put sketchy-looking 00s ancillary guff on top to try and sweeten the deal.
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nitrosurf
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, those GV 650's are an interesting proposition in a kind of EL900 dragster-come gheyster kind of way. Plus they've got that whole 'JJ Abrams version of the Enterprise' styling thing going on.

What I think that Hyosung have got that the plethora of Chinese makers don't have is unity. Not in a sinister religious way, but as in they're one 'maker' with their own design and manufacturing (as far as I can tell), whereas the Chinese products are made in many factories and are marketed by a separate set of people under certain brands. You don't have the focus on a product-line doing it like that, you're just flogging other people's stuff.

Maybe when a couple of the brand's stabilise and start selling things that they design and manufacture in house, that no other brand sells, people will see them as a good alternative to the 'accepted' brands rather than cheap knock off/clones of established Japanese stuff.

I've been surprised as of late how much money is asked for the currently available Chinese stuff. Too much given the alternatives available.


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Last edited by nitrosurf on 09:00 - 25 Oct 2016; edited 1 time in total
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 24 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

CFMoto are a manufacturer, they manufacture their own bikes.

As from next year, Zhongshen, will be known as Cyclone (how that affects Honly, Romet etc I don't know), as they try and build the brand.

Benelli , chinese owned & manufactured

Lifan , again chines own brand, that manufacture their own bikes

There are others, but that's a start ..
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 01:30 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off the CFMoto company profile website....

https://www.cfmoto.cn/about/1.html

User value

“Serving no useful purpose, having no excuse for being” with more than 20 years professional experience in motorcycle industry, CFMOTO is always devoted to supplying optimum user value for each product, based on this, CFMOTO products benefit more than any other vehicles from an unbelievable wealth of experience from decades in this fiercely competitive field, and prove to be the ideal partner for enjoying life and exploring the world.


WTF does that mean Laughing
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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like they've got the hang of marketing bollocks at least.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:

However, I wasn't especially interested in the 650NK, as I ride a TR,


Still it's cheap here due to being an old model. Cursory look at taobao suggests ABS became standard in 2015.

Quote:
whether you find it boring or not, is of no concern to me


No but it should be too anyone marketing these bikes in the UK. As their sales show your not in a majority or even a vaguely significant minority.

I mean all jests aside crossing an ER6 (fairly dull learner bike) with a deuville (the dullville) is probably not the best way to launch yourself in to the market. Sure it may be a great commuter with practical luggage but most commuters want reliability which due to the bikes origin is tainted with a giant ? over it's head (earned or not).
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G
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Hyosung effectively cloned SV engines and frames for their 650s, and they didn't exactly fly out of showrooms.

Wasn't it an SV clone engine in a GS500 clone frame?

I can remember the hype which was "cheap manufacturer makes 650cc v-twin sports bike for £3k".
What we got was a commuter engine in an even more commuter frame for about the same price as an SV.

The hype sounded interesting; as ever, the reality less so.
(To be fair, the firestorm was promoted along similar lines with similar results... though Honda isn't exactly known for it's interesting bikes.)
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 08:22 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
but most commuters want reliability


I wouldn't consider getting a 650MT if i had any reliability concerns, and as it happens, I don't have any reliability concerns. Whilst the TR may be boring to you, it's not to me, in fact for my uses it's ideal, and I love riding it. It's also built like a brick s**thouse on wheels, as was demonstrated when a man in a van decided to cut across me !!

SV's, sportsbikes really don't interest me in the slightest, I'd be very tempted with a Triumph Rocket, but I have concerns over corrosion issues, based on my America ownership. I probably will end up owning a cruiser again at some point, not a Harley though.

And to say it's old technology, well, that's a tad relative, as the bike I've kept the longest and never tire of riding is my Enfield 350 Bullet, and the CF650's are incredibly modern in comparison !! Smile
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Wasn't [the Hyosung GT650] an SV clone engine in a GS500 clone frame?

Or "tribute acts", yes, I'd meant to edit that to "Suzuki engines and frames".

Their new 650s look to have in-house frames, or at least not ripped off directly from Suzuki.

The issue of old stock is cromulent. I'd be wanting to check the VIN to see when a "2016" WK (or Suzuki for that matter) bike was actually manufactured.
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CrusaderPhil
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 04 Mar 2017    Post subject: CF650MT Reply with quote

Like linuxyeti I ride a WK650-TR have done 8200 since last April last year in all weathers, I have had no issues with the bike apart from a high pitched squeal that nobody else could hear, it was eventually traced by a young mechanic to the fuel pump, which I had already claimed was the culprit, once diagnosed it was replaced without question by the dealer.

I expect to have around 20,000 on the 650TR by the time it is 2 years old, I will be considering the 650MT without a second thought, I ride a Triumph Sprint GS and a Honda NC750 in my volunteering capacity and can categorically say that the 650TR is a better ride than either the Triumph or the Honda, it is certainly as fast as the Honda, the Triumph whilst a lovely bike, whilst more powerful and faster but it has too far forward a seating position, putting a strain on the shoulders.
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