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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:51 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sable wrote:
Which other motorcycle group could reliably run a protest motorcycle event

The No To Bike Parking Tax mob, in about 2010.

MAG hung them out to dry ("democracy, not demos, simples") and it was pre-peak-hipster, so the Shoreditcheratti massive was notably absent.

Maybe they'll take some time off from getting their beards plaited while flogging £4.50 bowls of porridge to organise something worthwhile.

Since we don't know, we'll have to make our own fun for now.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
MAG hung them out to dry ("democracy, not demos, simples")



then threw all their toys out their pram when London mayor (and some others?) wouldn't play ball, and threatened direct action. Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, but, Sadiq said he'd be their bestest, bestest friend. Now they can't even get a meeting with the Deputy Assistant Backup Mayor. Laughing

The only thing that I'm sure of is that MAG, BMF, the Shoreditcheratti and the rump of the No To Mob will resolutely refuse to work with each other, because each outfit will be convinced that only they are the One True Riders' Rights organisation. Pass the popcorn
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
But, but, Sadiq said he'd be their bestest, bestest friend. Now they can't even get a meeting with the Deputy Assistant Backup Mayor. Laughing

The only thing that I'm sure of is that MAG, BMF, the Shoreditcheratti and the rump of the No To Mob will resolutely refuse to work with each other, because each outfit will be convinced that only they are the One True Riders' Rights organisation. Pass the popcorn



I'm in the TRF. Cool

who just affiliated with MAG Embarassed
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally get the sentiment here, honestly I do.

I'm no hardcore biker, nor am I a retro-bike fashionista. I started riding as a cheap means to get to work and back, started enjoying it so took it further and went for social rides with mates no and then. That said, my point is that however these people have chosen to approach the concerns of all bikers is up to them. The message they're aiming to deliver is the same message you or I would want to deliver - safety for bikers, better use of the roads and general awareness of bikers' needs.


Now, for the much needed full disclosure...

I'm not affiliated with the group(s) behind this in any way. I do not have lunch in their cafes, nor do I get my hair cut at their barbers. I don't do social media. None of it. In fact this forum and MSUK are the only two "social" platforms (if they're classed as that) I frequent.
I have a friend, who is a biker and is really into restoring old military bikes as a hobby. Through his years of meddling he's got to know a great number of those involved in the DGR and Bike Shed. That's not to say he's a bearded-hipster, but far from it. He's an ordinary engineer who seeks information about his hobby from those that know it, doesn't matter who they are. He is the "friend" through which I heard about this and that was simply a coffee break conversation where we were discussing the recent theft of my bike. He mentioned about the group and said to look them up. Literally that. Now, believe it or not he's not aware of my inputs to this forum. It's not something I've ever felt the need to mention. It's only BCF after all!!

All said and done, I still believe any noise is good noise when it comes to the topics in question. In particular the ULEZ issue which is probably going to cripple a lot of daily-riders in the southeast.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheArchitect wrote:
The message they're aiming to deliver

Is currently a mystery.

Serious question: since MAG have already said they're on the case, what's the purpose of backing another organisation with the same goals? Are they complementary? Competing? Redundant?

My point is that if their organisation was all that, then we (and TfL and the Major's office) wouldn't need to be asking that question. Calls would already have been made, feathers unruffled, ducks put in a row, and there would be a single Popular Bikers' Front pushing London specific issues.
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what MAG are doing or are planning to do. Failed to do my due diligence on that.

Frankly speaking, I don't even know what this lot will achieve either, however I did read about what they plan to achieve, but as mentioned earlier in the thread they seem to have removed that page from their site for now!

One would assume common sense prevails and they are either already working alongside the likes of MAG to strengthen the current movement, or are in talks with the right powers to facilitate conversations that perhaps MAG isn't currently able to organise.
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Sable
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get why people hate hipsters. I don't really care. I just thought the cross hairs on Architect was misplaced.

Rogerborg wrote:
Serious question: since MAG have already said they're on the case, what's the purpose of backing another organisation with the same goals? Are they complementary? Competing? Redundant?


I imagine a large part of the goal is shared publicity between <Insert profit biker organisations here>.

I am sure MAG have had some victories in the past but honestly I have no interest in backing llamas wearing biker pyjamas that makes dramas. MAG could do with being a bit less Eastenders and get some good PR about them.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sable wrote:
I get why people hate hipsters. I don't really care. I just thought the cross hairs on Architect was misplaced.


I don't see any crosshairs on him, but he didn't seem to understand why a lot of us want sod all to do with them.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheArchitect wrote:
I have no idea what MAG are doing or are planning to do.

Why would you? You're not the one organising a complementary / competing / redundant campaign.


TheArchitect wrote:
One would assume common sense prevails

This one would not.


TheArchitect wrote:
in talks with the right powers to facilitate conversations that perhaps MAG isn't currently able to organise.

MAG have professional lobbyists who were (or thought they were) working with the mayor's office and TfL. They've just realised that they've being mugged off though.

Unless the Shoreditcheratti have some proper A list celebs on board prepared to run a public shaming campaign against Sadiq Khan, I can't see why they'd expect to get any more access.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 25 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sable wrote:

I am sure MAG have had some victories in the past


I'm not convinced that they do. I am sure they claim to have had some.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 10:36 - 27 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking as someone who was involved in direct action as part of the NTBPT mob, garnering support from like-minded individuals is easy. Gaining and maintaining momentum for participation in actual, physical events on a regular basis is difficult and requires a strong bond based on respect for those leading the charge.

Very easy to type tough on an iMac in Costa, but blockading Trafalgar Square every Wednesday morning for months, or wedging your bike in the revolving doors of Westminster Council's offices preventing the staff from entering takes commitment to the cause and tests the group belief and ultimate respect in the lead figures.

In our case we got close, real close. Feathers were well and truly ruffled. Unfortunately in the end a few decided to turn against the groups activism, which caused a divide and then a falter. Still took Westminster council to the RCoJ though, which I bet few ever expected. Thumbs Up

Expecting the hipster brigade to garner that level of support for real, regular boots-on-the-ground action? Never happen.

They remind me of this:

http://streetartlondon.co.uk/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/12/Banksy-Street-Art-Lifestyle-Out-Stock-1.jpg
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 27 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Unless the Shoreditcheratti have some proper A list celebs on board


Well they have both money and fame on board, according to their last Annual return.
Although whether they want to ruffle feathers and sully their own reputations ... hard to say.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 27 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

McCharlie is famously dyslexic, so he might think he's "A" list.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 01 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It lives!

http://www.weridelondon.com/

Oh, wow, #Hashtags. And awareness rides! In work togs and open face lids, in winter.

InB4 "at least they're trying to do something".
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 01 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It lives!

http://www.weridelondon.com/

Oh, wow, #Hashtags. And awareness rides! In work togs and open face lids, in winter.

InB4 "at least they're trying to do something".


Well I'm going to say it, at least they are doing something.

Looking at their websites, the BMF (supposedly the biggest bike club in the UK) doesn't even mention the issue and MAG, whilst being 'fuming' (do you see what they did there Rolling Eyes ) give us a couple of paragraphs of typical Leon Mannings breastbeating and bugger all else; by their own admission, their most recent 'campaign' was two years ago and, as far as I can tell, their policy of having behind the scenes talks achieves sod all.

This might seem a storm in a teacup to non London bikers, but this is the thin end of a very shitty wedge.

If Sado Kuhnt gets his way, not only will he bring this in two years early, but he will change the borders from the current congestion zone, to the North and South circular roads, which effectively makes London a no go zone for bikes older than 2007.

If this goes through unchallenged, it opens the flood gates for every other big city to do the same, so just because you don't go near London, don't be under any illusion that it doesn't effect you.

I'm no hipster and I don't go along with their vision of biking, but if they are prepared to get the ball rolling, then all power too them.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
[MAG's] policy of having behind the scenes talks achieves sod all.

Precisely. MAG's professional lobbyists are already talking directly to the transport chief''s deputy's assistant's secretary.

Now, given that snarling up central London once a week for years couldn't even get the NTBPT mob a whiff of a concession from Westminster council, what exactly is a #Hashtag and a polite ride out going to achieve at a higher level?

No fluffy handwaving, please: what's the connection between a #Hashtag and being given a serious audience with someone who matters?

I'm not proposing a better plan, I'm noting that their current one doesn't appear to be a plan at all, just a vague hope. When I see a clear connection between a campaign of action and the desired response, I'll get behind it.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conversely, MAG's recent internal politics, turmoil and inactivity has played directly into the hands of the bureaucrats..

Which begs the question, are they really that useless - or are they controlled opposition?

At the height of the NTBPT campaign we tried to get MAG and members of the UK biking press interested.. No joy at all, even though lots of the NTBPT lot were active MAG members.

Thinking
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Rufous
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Which begs the question, are they really that useless - or are they controlled opposition?


They don't serve bikers but are controlled by manipulative, self-serving psychopaths.

There's mounting evidence that MAG has been actively trying to dissolve, subvert and derail its own London Bike Theft Protest movement, by kicking out the active figures in that campaign, trying to smear them as if they were politicians, and letting their own, pet control freak pretend to have high-level contacts among, police and MI5 who are actively liaising with them behind the scenes to stop bike theft. The main deal seems to be "shut up, do nothing, expect no change, and accept the leadership of our phoney". They're trying to fill the void in action/capability/change with lies, basically, in order to be seen as leaders of a gang by someone. "I'm really a mover and shaker - shut up, believe my lies about spies and supercops, and help me weed out the real leaders and effective people from our campaign." More info to come.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, I was hoping for better after Liversidge was ousted (again).

But hope, as I noted above, is not a strategy. I should know better, having had experience of the petty politics that goes on in national volunteer organisations with Superficially Similar Rivals. It really is Judean People's Front versus People's Front of Judea stuff.

And here we go now with the Judean Popular People's Front. Rolling Eyes


Kris wrote:
At the height of the NTBPT campaign we tried to get MAG and members of the UK biking press interested.

The impression I got from a fair remove was that MAG are (or were) mostly concerned with rural cruiserist issues for rural cruiserist riders. Helmets, leg protectors[*], hi vis, mandatory CE gear, that sort of thing. Daily commuters on their daily commutes, pfft, who cares about that lot? BRAAAP-BRAP-BRAP-BRAP.

It's nice to see them taking a belated interest in what must surely the biggest group of riders.

[*] LEG PROTECTARS NEVAR FORGIT!!!!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wuxtry!

It turns out that MAG has actually been working with the Shoreditcheratti.

MAG, with this formatting which I'm sick and tired of fixing for them wrote:
WeRideLondon Campaign goes live. Leon has done quite a bit of work this month to help
refine the wording and strategy for a multi platform social media based campaign.
https:
//www.f
acebook.com/weridelondon
It will run in supportive tandem with MAG's opposition to the Mayor’s plans for taxing non
-
compliant motorcycles £12.50 per day in a dramatically expanded ULEZ scheme

and TfLs ongoing
program of road and junction narrowing to ma
ke it either physically impossible or far more
dangerous for PTW riders to overtake of filter through jammed traffic.


Let's see how long that co-operation lasts, shall we? Whistle
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Let's see how long that co-operation lasts, shall we? Whistle


It won't.

They'll get sick of the pretentious bullshit faster than us mere mortals.
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secretagentmo...
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 21 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hipsters = Future Triumph Bobber Owners
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 21 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely they should be banning pre-2997 cars, vans and buses first???Or I am I missing the point?
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 22 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Fuck Hipsters. They know nothing outside of the crappy skin deep shit they are riding.


wow!!!
didn`t think such a cliquey set of irrelevancies could instigate such annoyance ...

I very much doubt they will stand the test of time.

PS. whats the café like ... is it like visitin marwell .. do you get asked to sponsor one of the animals ?
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