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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Admiral Wants Your Data! Reply with quote

Apparently the marketing drones at Admiral want the permission of first time driverss/vehicle owners to allow data mining of their Faceache accounts!

Here's the article:-

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/02/admiral-to-price-car-insurance-based-on-facebook-posts

However, the usual mealy mouthed insurance speak reveals these two nuggets from the article:-

Quote:
The scheme is voluntary, and will only offer discounts rather than price increases, which could be worth up to £350 a year.


Quote:
Mines said Admiral could eventually develop the scheme further, meaning it could include other social media sites and increase the price of insurance for some drivers.


So no contradiction at all there then! Rolling Eyes
Call me a cynic but I suspect option 2, (above), will turn out to be the preferred business model!

They will use an algorithm to analyse you!
Apparently using "quotation marks" and the words "always" and "never" rather than "maybe" is going to mark you out as some kind of insurance risk pariah!

What could possibly go wrong, FFS? Rolling Eyes
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Last edited by Suntan Sid on 12:33 - 02 Nov 2016; edited 1 time in total
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd put that down to The Guardian reporting misquotes than any deliberate conflicting statements from the insurer.

The faux outrage of it all is amusing to me, though.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a Facebookless old fart, I've got nothing to worry about!
However are Admiral really expecting us old farts to believe that this will be used for the benefit of first timers?
The other one's got bells on it, if you want to pull it.
It will be used as a stick to beat up the premiums of learners. "Oh dear, you posted a naughty word", that'll be another 5% on your premium", Kerfuckingching!

Sadly, the people who will get caught up in this, teens an early twenties, despite being born in the "Digital Age", are the very people who, simply, can't resist living every, sordid, detail of their lives online!
Even sadder, these fukwits can't even comprehend the value of an online pseudonym FFS! Rolling Eyes
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like those drive apps you can get.
Sod those unless you drive like a chauffeur all day, every day.
I would imagine it wont be long before they start sharing that data amongst themselves to create huge databases on 'safe' yet outside of the law drivers. By 'safe', I mean drivers like myself that have never had a point or a claim against me, yet I would probably be in the higher end risk category for a driving app, due to driving slightly more brisk than they would like me to.

Data mining is all well and good if the data is used to the benefit of the consumer, but that is rarely the case, as it's almost always to the benefit to the companies profits to use the data to increase revenue.

I mean why would a company spend a fortune on a project with the sole intention of lowering the cost of their services and in turn, their profits?

They wouldn't.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Facebook says "No"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37847647
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzoid wrote:



https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/e/e9/Nelson_Ha-Ha.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121205194057
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
Being a Facebookless old fart, I've got nothing to worry about!
However are Admiral really expecting us old farts to believe that this will be used for the benefit of first timers?
The other one's got bells on it, if you want to pull it.
It will be used as a stick to beat up the premiums of learners. "Oh dear, you posted a naughty word", that'll be another 5% on your premium", Kerfuckingching!


Option 2: Young drivers go on as they are, with a 1 in 3 accident rate of below 19 year old males in their first year of driving, and insurers shut up shop entirely and just don't offer any cover for young drivers at all.

Finding innovative ways to give the more sensible young drivers an affordable option that makes viable business sense from the insurer's perspective should be applauded rather than scorned. But I get the reasons you might be cynical of the idea entirely. But then, you're an old git, as you say, so?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzoid wrote:

I strongly suspect that should be 'Facebook says "No" while figuring out how to monetise these data for their own benefit'.

Faux profile, "Careful Now" posts and mad love for BRAKE = great discount?
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone with the forethought to do that, Roger, would be smart enough to write in eloquent sentences and wouldn't be a culprit of the overused !!!!!111!!!!!.
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Finding innovative ways to give the more sensible young drivers an affordable option that makes viable business sense from the insurer's perspective should be applauded rather than scorned. But I get the reasons you might be cynical of the idea entirely. But then, you're an old git, as you say, so?


Do very much agree.

Would support it if it increased premiums fairly.

If you drive like a reckless tosser then you insurance premium should be higher and if you are sensible then you should get a break? What gives? Why should all those driving sensibly be subsidising those that just don't give a shit about driving safely etc?

Edit: this is on the basis that they will fairly asses people's risk (somehow) and not just scrape your data off and sell it to the highest bidder...
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:
arry wrote:
Finding innovative ways to give the more sensible young drivers an affordable option that makes viable business sense from the insurer's perspective should be applauded rather than scorned. But I get the reasons you might be cynical of the idea entirely. But then, you're an old git, as you say, so?


Do very much agree.

Would support it if it increased premiums fairly.

If you drive like a reckless tosser then you insurance premium should be higher and if you are sensible then you should get a break? What gives? Why should all those driving sensibly be subsidising those that just don't give a shit about driving safely etc?

Edit: this is on the basis that they will fairly asses people's risk (somehow) and not just scrape your data off and sell it to the highest bidder...


Isn't that what the Telematics devices are for?
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 02 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I agree with telematics in principle*.

*just not on my motorbike
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got to wonder how long it will be before manufacturers start fitting them as standard.

Big brother is going to be watching you soon Laughing Get your ridng/driving jollies in now folks, it will soon be a thing of the past.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Re: Admiral Wants Your Data! Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
Apparently the marketing drones at Admiral want the permission of first time driverss/vehicle owners to allow data mining of their Faceache accounts!

It's a valuable lesson in how to run your social media accounts. Laughing

Linklatered by boozey with a massive spliff.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzoid wrote:
Isn't that what the Telematics devices are for?

Yes, except they're shit. You score better by driving slowly over road humps than avoiding harsh braking. Engine braking seems to be another thing they don't like.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Engine braking seems to be another thing they don't like.


So planning ahead is bad and panic braking is good? My quote will go into negative figures if I stick one of those telematics on the eggcup....
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 04 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Suntan Sid wrote:

The other one's got bells on it, if you want to pull it.
It will be used as a stick to beat up the premiums of learners. "Oh dear, you posted a naughty word", that'll be another 5% on your premium", Kerfuckingching!


Option 2: Young drivers go on as they are, with a 1 in 3 accident rate of below 19 year old males in their first year of driving, and insurers shut up shop entirely and just don't offer any cover for young drivers at all.


Or they could all go common law right to travel until the current regime gets knocked on the head.

Or introduce the Kei car concept and cap insurance.

Or some other way which respects a basic right to transport without being used as an excuse for the public to get screwed around and ripped off by civil servants and third party cronies.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 04 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
Or they could all go common law right to travel

Free mentalists of the land?
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 04 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:

Or they could all go common law right to travel until the current regime gets knocked on the head.

Or introduce the Kei car concept and cap insurance.

Or some other way which respects a basic right to transport without being used as an excuse for the public to get screwed around and ripped off by civil servants and third party cronies.


Yup, we'll all just sit tight for that to happen.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 04 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
a basic right to transport

Like, refugees? It is because I is under 25?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 04 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to go common law right to travel:

Dear Avon and Somerset Police Authority,

There are various sites that have said that as Statute law is by consent that withdrawing consent means you can not be contracted to Statute and are under common law as not conveying business goods.
Example of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nYnnololw
Example of legal

"NOTICE OF UNDERSTANDING AND CLAIM OF RIGHT

I ...... ....... of The family ....., do solemnly and sincerely declare that,

it is my understanding that any right that you may claim over my car is through my consent.

and it is my understanding that any statute by which you may claim to use to back any claim you may make on my car can only be valid if i consent to those statutes.

and it is my understanding that my purchase of my car, my possession of it, my upkeep and maintanence of it, proves that i am the lawful owner and have sole claim to it.

and it is my understanding that any claim that you have over myself to control whatever form of conveyance i may choose to operate on Her Majesty's roads and highways is only done with my consent

and it is my understanding that any statute by which you may claim to use to back any claim you may make to control whatever form of conveyance i may choose to operate on Her Majesty's roads and highways is only done so with my consent.

and it is my understanding that if you claim title to my car then you only do so with my consent.

I hereby serve notice and state clearly specifically and unequivocally that, under the law and customs of England, of which Her Majesty Queen Elizibeth II has sworn oath to protect, i make claim to what is rightly, justly and lawfully mine.

i claim full rights, title and lawfull ownership of of any form of conveyance in my possessionand the use of it on Her Majesty's roads and highways or on private land.

i claim that any consent which may have been either expressed or implied by myself or my person in regard to or relation of operating any form of conveyance on Her Majesty's roads and highways is withdrawn.

i claim that any registrations or licences with the dvla are now void.

i claim it is my lawful right to travel and use any form of conveyance on Her Majesty's roads and highways so long as i act with care and responsibilty to any third parties.

I claim my FEE SCHEDULE in regard to my lawful right to freely travel on Her Majesty's roads and highways for any transgressions by police officers, government principals or agents or justice system participants is FIVE HUNDRED GB POUNDS PER HOUR if and from the moment on being stopped (with the exception of being stopped by the police to ascertain if the conveyance has been stolen), questioned, interrogated or in any way detained, harassed or otherwise regulated and FIVE THOUSAND GB POUNDS PER HOUR if and from the moment I am handcuffed, transported, incarcerated or subjected to any adjudication process without my express written and notarised consent. Also if violence be done to either me or those under my care and protection, or damage of loss to my privately owned, borrowed or hired conveyance the fee shall be FIFTEEN THOUSAND GB POUNDS in addition to any compensation that may be awarded.

I claim the right to convene a proper court de jure in order to address any potentially criminal actions of any police officers, government officials, principals or agents or justice system participants who, having been served notice of this claim fail to dispute or discuss or make lawful counterclaim and then interfere by act or omission with the lawful exercise of properly claimed and established rights and freedoms.

I claim the right to deal with any counterclaims or disputes publicly and in an open forum using discussion and negotiation and to capture both video and audio evidence of said discussion and negotiation for whatever lawful purpose as I see fit.

Affected parties wishing to dispute the claims made herein, or make their own counterclaims must respond appropriately within TEN (10) days of service of notice of this action. Responses must be under Oath or attestation, upon fullcommercial liability and penalty of perjury and received via registered mail to:

no later than TEN (10) days from the date of original service as dated by way of Royal Mail recorded delivery service.

Failure to register a dispute against the claims made herein will result in an automatic default judgement and permanent and irrevocable estoppels by acquiescence barring the bringing of charges under any statute, act or regulation against myself, ..... ...... of the family ....... for exercising these lawful and properly established rights, freedoms and duties. "

As you can see there appears to be de-registered from dvla contract and statute law and therefore VED exempt vehicles driving on roads.

Can you tell me your procedure regarding de registered vehicles driven under common law right to travel.

Your procedure for interacting with de-registered vehicles and the occupants right to travel.

How many legally de-registered vehicles are in the area, I do not mean registered and uninsured/taxed-I mean fully de-registered vehicles with own identification.

Your policy on de-registered vehicles with mot on chassis number,own plate and insurance on chassis number for any common law loss.

Your procedure for interacting with de-registered vehicles and the occupants right to travel

Yours faithfully,

Daniel

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/de_registered_car_free_man_on_th
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 04 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Jmoan wrote:
Or they could all go common law right to travel

Free mentalists of the land?


The only mental thing here are these increasingly daft and illegitimate demands on how people get around.
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 04 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:

The only mental thing here are these increasingly daft and illegitimate demands on how people get around.


Or indeed the persistent argument that any form of transport is actually needed. People did just fine when cars were a luxury item less than 50 years ago, whereas nowadays every member of the family NEEDS to have their own personal mobility and an average household must have 2.4 cars.

I've not driven for nearly 10 weeks. I've used the bike twice in that time to do 20 miles.

In all of that time I've:
Not failed to get to work
Not starved because I can't get shopping
Not failed to see my friends
Not had any other form of meltdown or misery beset me on all sides of the path of righteousness.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 05 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:


Option 2: Young drivers go on as they are, with a 1 in 3 accident rate of below 19 year old males in their first year of driving, and insurers shut up shop entirely and just don't offer any cover for young drivers at all.

Finding innovative ways to give the more sensible young drivers an affordable option that makes viable business sense from the insurer's perspective should be applauded rather than scorned. But I get the reasons you might be cynical of the idea entirely. But then, you're an old git, as you say, so?


Young drivers have been crashing and dying for the last 40 odd years. It's not gone up. The insurers are still making a living, so I doubt there's any danger of them stopping insurance for under 20s. Maybe they've just seen another way they can live their own pockets even more.

It's good that Facebook said no. I wonder what Twitter will say?
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almostthere
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PostPosted: 08:51 - 05 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Jmoan wrote:

The only mental thing here are these increasingly daft and illegitimate demands on how people get around.


Or indeed the persistent argument that any form of transport is actually needed. People did just fine when cars were a luxury item less than 50 years ago, whereas nowadays every member of the family NEEDS to have their own personal mobility and an average household must have 2.4 cars.

I've not driven for nearly 10 weeks. I've used the bike twice in that time to do 20 miles.

In all of that time I've:
Not failed to get to work
Not starved because I can't get shopping
Not failed to see my friends
Not had any other form of meltdown or misery beset me on all sides of the path of righteousness.


Of course it's a necessity without my car how the fuck would I get to the pub and back Very Happy
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