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Fifa poppy ban

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 05 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red poppies sprung up, covering many of the battlefields of WW1 because of their seeds tendancy to lie dormant in the earth for decades until the ground is disturbed.

The resulting symbolism of a field of blood following a battle is strong. As it the carpet of flowers covering the dead of both sides equally. Not a surprise it was taken as a symbol of rememberance of the dead.

It's not a political symbol in itself, it's a reminder, just as the graves of the war dead of both sides are equally well tended in France.

HOWEVER. It has now become poppy = British legion. A politicised if not political organisation representing veterans of the British forces. If you could seperate the two, I'd be much happier.

I'll be wearing a poppy and observing a minutes silence on Armistice day as a personal act of rememberance of how the whole of Europe conscripted and destroyed a generation of young men in total mechanised war, not once, but twice. I'll usually putt enough in the collection tin to cover its cost. This year I may actually break with that and wear a real poppy as there are still a few unseasonally in flower in my garden.

If I was in a football team who were playing on armistice day, I would wear one regardless of what anyone else said.

I will not be wearing a poppy in the weeks leading up to Armstice day. Nor will I be bolting one to my car.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 17 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37972265
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 17 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its organisations like FIFA and Britain First that are trying to politicise wearing of a poppy imo. I say 'sod them' and wear one if you want to, or don't.... Whatever you do, don't let others make you feel like it is anything other than a symbol of respect.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 00:08 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If FIFA choose to fine, or deduct points from, England and Scotland it's not the end of the world. An appeal can be made....To FIFA.
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Last edited by Raffles on 13:51 - 18 Nov 2016; edited 1 time in total
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

This could really harm England and Scotlands world cup chances. Sad



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lihp
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
a symbol of respect.


Can you pay your respects without wearing a poppy?

If they were really that bothered about "paying their respects", they would have postponed the game so it wasn't played on Remembrance Sunday, then they would have been free to pay their respects properly.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


Surely FIFA pick the fixture dates, not England and Scotland between themselves?

The majority of the rest of the football league have to stop playing and have an "international break", so these world cup qualifier matches can go ahead. It's not that simple.


Match fixtures can be requested a change. It could have been switched to a Saturday for example.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
lihp wrote:


Match fixtures can be requested a change. It could have been switched to a Saturday for example.


Really? Anything solid to back that up, or is your word as good as your bond?


So you agree that match dates can be changed?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure a nice big back hander to the rulers of FIFA would have smoothed the way. It's how it's worked since time immemorial. Rolling Eyes
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lihp
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said they could have requested a change of fixture. After all they knew about long enough ago to know what date it falls on.

Faux outrage, wearing a poppy is NOT remembrance.
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

lihp wrote:

If they were really that bothered about "paying their respects", they would have postponed the game so it wasn't played on Remembrance Sunday, then they would have been free to pay their respects properly.


In what way is their act of remembrance, the same as everyone else's, not paying respects properly?

Surely the widely publicised act of remembrance does more for the cause than a private act?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
lihp wrote:

If they were really that bothered about "paying their respects", they would have postponed the game so it wasn't played on Remembrance Sunday, then they would have been free to pay their respects properly.


In what way is their act of remembrance, the same as everyone else's, not paying respects properly?

Surely the widely publicised act of remembrance does more for the cause than a private act?


The poppy is all about being SEEN to be "remembering".
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

lihp wrote:

The poppy is all about being SEEN to be "remembering".


And the minute's silence?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
lihp wrote:

The poppy is all about being SEEN to be "remembering".


And the minute's silence?


Clearly quite differently.

Many, many people choose to donate to RBL without wearing a poppy. Wearing the poppy is not "paying respect". That comes with the acts you do, ranging from attending services, or even just observing the 1 minute silence.

All wearing the poppy achieves is to SHOW others that you donated to RBL. It is no different than just saying "look at me, I donated and am remembering"
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lihp
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

Maybe you should tell all other public figures not to wear one too? Even your idol Corbyn wears a red one now, after his little white poppy protest before he came to power.

I vote Conservative

Quote:

Let's face it, John "Channel 4 Multi coloured tie" Snow is about the only public figure who refuses to wear one now.

I think you're being naive thinking that these public figures have a lot of choice. They will be under immense pressure from the media to be seen wearing it. John Snow is the exception.

Quote:

I take it you're OK with footballers wearing anti racism badges? Anti Bullying wrist bands etc? It's just people who gave their lives to keep us from being German who you don't want people wearing a badge to represent their remembrance then?

I'm not ok with footballers in general. I'm indifferent to wether they wear one or not.

You are simply not reading what I am saying, and trying to pick an argument which is not there.

My only point is a disagreement that Wearing a Poppy = Remembrance. It's not, wearing a poppy = being seen to be supporting a charity.

Like grieving, everybody does it differently. Just because somebody does not wear a poppy, or attend a service, or observe a silence. It does not mean they are not remembering.

All wearing a poppy is, is a public statement that you made a donation to RBL, and is no different to all the silly wrist bands.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

And apparently footballers in your opinion.

Which footballers refused to wear one?

Quote:

So one minute you're saying that public figures are under huge pressure to wear one, then the next, that footballers aren't?


What are you going on about? Where did I say footballers aren't under pressure to wear one?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 18 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


I suspect you're letting your fashionable hatred of football, stop you from seeing the way FIFA behaved here in playing "Billy Big Bollocks".


I'm saying that FIFA are playing billy big bollocks, while the mainstream media manufacture some outrage to sell papers. Saying they should have the choice to wear one. While slamming others for not.

It's a manufactured issue so both sides can stamp their feet like little children.
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