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Just got my auto-enroll pension through

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Just got my auto-enroll pension through Reply with quote

What a fucking carry-on. This is a rant rather than a question but feel free to join me.

Notwithstanding that my boss unofficially muttered something two years ago about having to freeze pay in anticipation of this crap.

So I get a letter through the post from a company I've never heard of telling me I'm now a member of their pension scheme.

Thought I'd have a look into it. I start going through their registration to access the details of what the fuck is going on. Well, it's like the very worst account creation known to man. As well as my 8 figure password containing a cap, a number and a special character, they want 4 secret questions (from a specified list) my email address and my mobile phone number.

It was at this point I realised I don't trust this company enough to even give them my email address with the reasonable expectation they wont spam the shit out of it so why would I even consider giving them my money to look after?

I decided to opt out by phone. After about 10 minutes of automated call shit, it tells me I can only opt out between two certain dates and need to wait another 48 hours for the first one. The final, automated opting out process took about 20 minutes.

The final kick up the arse was a statement to the effect that I'll be opted back in again in three years regardless of what I do.

The entire thing has made my unbelievably angry. This totally unknown to me (and therefore untrusted) company now has a huge chunk of my identity details on their database. So full name, home address, place of work, date of birth, salary information, payroll number and national insurance number.

I bet it doesn't get deleted from their database because I opted out. I simply don't give out that degree of information about myself to unknown third parties so what the fuck gives the government the right to compell my employer to do so on my behalf?

I'm currently waiting for the avalanche of pension related junk mail.

Also now need to have a bit of a chat with my boss on the subject of pay rises and the recent lack thereof. I garauntee he wont be the only employer to have done this (he's just not as good about keeping quiet about it).
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juat be thankful you don't have to deal with utter fuknuggets that claim to deal with student loans/finance!

Can you make a complaint to the data commissioner/tzar/ombudsman or whatever they're called?

Over at pepipoo, people are managing to extract money from PPC's who illegally access their details and/or retain the details unlawfully, £750 seems to be the going rate!
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I opted out. Fuck them. Thumbs Up

Your boss sounds like a tight arse. We still get our payrises whether we opt in or out.
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janner_10
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say y experience was the opposite. I put in 2% and my employer matches it.

Some guy came in and made a 30 min presentation so we all understood.

I had to do quite literally nothing aside tell them how much I wanted to contribute.

I was surprised how painless it all was.

Sounds like the problem is your company.
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I opted out on the premise that anything that the govt organises is bound to go tits up (history tells us that) so I didn't want any part of it.

Unfortunately it's human nature when forced into something to want to back away and be suspicious. The way the gvt have gone about it makes it feel like you're being tricked into something and I'm sure that why a lot of people opted out. (Every single person at my place opted out and that's about 150 employees) which was good as we were all given a pay rise on the back of the company not having to contribute to these 'compulsory opt in' pensions.

The gvt would have been much better off making it a choice but with them explaining fully the benefits of joining - rather than forcing everyone to join and then most people having to go through the rigmarole of opting out if they don't want it.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I opted in. I put 8% in and my employer puts 8% in. Basically free money and puts a reasonable chunk of money away for later in life.

As a higher rate taxpayer, the tax relief is significant too. Our employer uses the People's Pension who I've had no problems with thus far.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong. I could have done nothing at all and they would have paid whatever the minimum percentage of my wages they have to into it and matched that payment without me lifting a finger. It's what most people will do, then it'll come as a shock to them that they, as Roger says, have just enough to avoid any government help come retiring age. The rigmarole was in me wanting to do anything to control it.

I think it'll also come as a shock to many when they see how much this scheme ramps up over the next few years. I stand to lose £1500 off the top of my pay in 2019

I have zero confidence that any of these pension schemes will actually deliver a worthwhile pension at the end of the day. My Dad retired with a classic private pension scheme and said he may as well not have bothered. Luckily he made enough to retire on from the sale of his business and his financial advisor bumped the pot into other investment vehicles without converting it to cash.

Did anyone ask at these "meetings" with the pension companies about how much their admin charges are and what charges/ability exist to transferr money into a different pension scheme if their one doesn't seem to be performing? They are pretty much unaccountable for this. They do what they like and as long as they make it easy for the employers, most members wont bother even looking at it

I also think the government will find a way to tax it somehow.

To say employers haven't been holding a brake on pay is pretty naiive. They knew this was coming and knew they would have to budget for it and WILL have allowed for it as part of their payroll budgeting. As I said, most employers aren't so crass as to admit to their staff that they've been keeping a lid on pay (or recruitment) for the last three years.

So. My conclusion is, the amount my employer "matches" my contribution by is money that's been witheld from cost of living wage increases on the run up to implementation. I KNOW employers have been doing this and I KNOW it's not just my one. If I was running a small business, I'd have done the same (I just wouldn't blab about it to my employees).

It would cost my employer about three hundred this year but in three years it'll be a closer to a thousand (and £1500 off my top line too). Anyone who thinks employers aren't holding out on pay to cover this should take a long hard think about where they think it IS coming from.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're probably lucky in that our business has plenty in the margins to cover this. And also that almost all of us mere mortals have opted out, as we didn't see the benefit. The firm would pay in the minimum required, and it's not worthwhile.

Anything that the Gov says will help, chances are will only help them.
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I could have done nothing at all and they would have paid whatever the minimum percentage of my wages they have to into it and matched that payment without me lifting a finger. It's what most people will do, then it'll come as a shock to them that they, as Roger says, have just enough to avoid any government help come retiring age. The rigmarole was in me wanting to do anything to control it.

I think it'll also come as a shock to many when they see how much this scheme ramps up over the next few years. I stand to lose £1500 off the top of my pay in 2019

I have zero confidence that any of these pension schemes will actually deliver a worthwhile pension at the end of the day. My Dad retired with a classic private pension scheme and said he may as well not have bothered. Luckily he made enough to retire on from the sale of his business and his financial advisor bumped the pot into other investment vehicles without converting it to cash.

Did anyone ask at these "meetings" with the pension companies about how much their admin charges are and what charges/ability exist to transferr money into a different pension scheme if their one doesn't seem to be performing? They are pretty much unaccountable for this. They do what they like and as long as they make it easy for the employers, most members wont bother even looking at it

I also think the government will find a way to tax it somehow.

To say employers haven't been holding a brake on pay is pretty naiive. They knew this was coming and knew they would have to budget for it and WILL have allowed for it as part of their payroll budgeting. As I said, most employers aren't so crass as to admit to their staff that they've been keeping a lid on pay (or recruitment) for the last three years.

So. My conclusion is, the amount my employer "matches" my contribution by is money that's been witheld from cost of living wage increases on the run up to implementation. I KNOW employers have been doing this and I KNOW it's not just my one. If I was running a small business, I'd have done the same (I just wouldn't blab about it to my employees).

It would cost my employer about three hundred this year but in three years it'll be a closer to a thousand (and £1500 off my top line too). Anyone who thinks employers aren't holding out on pay to cover this should take a long hard think about where they think it IS coming from.


My place made it crystal clear that they couldn't commit on last years wage reviews till they knew exactly how many would take up the gvt scam auto opt in pension scheme. Thankfully not one single person took up on it so we were rewarded with a 4% wage rise that year and 3% this year. If a lot of people had opted in we'd have been lucky to have got 1%.

The company i work for would much rather give money into the employee's pockets than put that money into a pension which could end up being pissed down the river in 20 years time.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

I think it's a necessary idea. A lot of people I talk to have no pension or plan after retirement, even people in their 40's.

Maybe with life on long term benefits not looking too bad, many people think retirement will be similar. From what I've seen, the state pension is pants and pensioners still have to pay many things that professional "job seekers" don't, such as council tax.

I've had a private pension since I was 20. It started off as only a small monthly payment, but increases 10% a year. By the time I retire payments will be quite a bit, however I'll only be looking at around £500 a month from it, even having paid into it for almost 50 years.
I have a friend who will retire on a final salary pension in the next 2 years at 60. He's works in Rail H&S, so not even public sector anymore. The difference in retirement wealth is going to change dramatically over the next 15-20 years - this government plan is at least trying to make more people responsible for their won welfare in retirement.


It may well be a necessary idea, and ten years ago I was paying into a private pension. Then one thing and another happened, had to stop making the payments, and in the inbetween bit I realised the less you have come the end of your period, the better.

My maternal grandparents worked hard, saved, bought their house. When my grandfather ended up with Alzheimers, they were after making my nan sell the home they'd lived in for ~40 years, to pay for his care.

My paternal grandmother also worked all her life, but never saved, never bought a house, or nothing like that. She ended up in a care home too, that those who had worked all their lives, saved, had a house etc. had to pay £500+ a week for the privilege of.

Why should I scrimp and save while working, to have it all taken at the end of it? I'd rather enjoy my life now, and if the worst comes to it, I'll just not pay my council tax and get thrown into a prison for 3 square meals a day and a roof over my head Laughing
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


Because with an aging population and people living longer, tax payers won't be able to afford you much of a standard of living.
What seems to be changing is that family used to look after their elderly, now people put them out to pasture in granny farms and expect the state to pick up the bill.


All well and good, but the cost of living is that high, in many households all adults need to work to pay the bills, which means less people around to help with caring for the elderly relatives. And of course, it's not expected for the State to pick up the bill, they fully expect you to flog all your worldly belongings to pay for it.

Plus, I wouldn't wish Alzheimers on even you. It's horrible what it does to people.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 18 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instant opt-out from me.

As stated in other threads, it's an arbitrary wallop of bureaucracy I could do without.

I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people are not using their ISA allowance (15K this year). 15K in for 20 years tracking inflation and being used over 20 years isn't going to provide you with yachts in retirement, but it's a good start, and enough if the roof is already taken care of.

Based on the numbers people seem to be throwing about (3%, 6% on median salary), I can only really see it as a distraction. Low risk investments don't turn a bag of peanuts into a monthly food budget.

Matched contributions can be nice but as said, in most cases I can see it's still barely sufficient to provide a baked bean diet in the twilight years.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 18 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reality check: only some people can retire and live off of the work of others. It's not money, it's goods and services produced versus goods and services consumed. You can't eat numbers, or build a house from them.

The economy is going to increasingly reflect that. The State pension will be inadequate. The numbers won't matter, the cost of living will rise faster than whatever fantasy fiat amount is handed out. More and more geezers will have to keep working in order to keep living.

We will be competing with each other to be in the fortunate minority who can afford to live indolently. So please, don't save. Just give up, and hope something will turn up. I look forward to you emptying my bins when you're 80.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 18 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if you leave a job where you've been paying into one, what happens?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 18 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carries over to the next one apparently.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 18 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ok, I'll probably just leave it then. Dunno how much I've paid in (it's only been a few years).
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carvell
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 18 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
It would cost my employer about three hundred this year but in three years it'll be a closer to a thousand (and £1500 off my top line too). Anyone who thinks employers aren't holding out on pay to cover this should take a long hard think about where they think it IS coming from.

Do you have any other pension scheme at all?

Randomly assuming a £30k salary, the £1500 you're 'losing' is only 5%. That's a pretty small pension contribution.

If you don't have any other scheme, and you are opting to not add £1500 to your pension pot and take the free matched money that goes with it, what will you do when you retire?

State pension is £119 a week.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 19 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I've read these pensions might not be very good, that's something to look forward to Neutral
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 19 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why can't more oldies just have the decency to die on schedule?

Take my granddad for example, he died when I was 14/15 due to a "bad heart", or at least that's what I knew as I kid. I found out a few years ago that isn't exactly what happened.

In his working life my grandad had his own building firm and at the point he died owned two houses in east anglia that he had quite literally built with his own two hands, one a 60s house and another luxury one finished in the 90s (where he lived).

As you can imagine the combined value was a fair sum and he was a stubborn highly-independant old bugger, the last thing he'd want would be to see the results of his sweat and graft go into the hands of some care home so they could wring a few more years out of his tired old body, just living in such conditions would be bad enough for him.

So although he was an ill man with a bad heart.... at some stage he called time and refused continuing treatment: was dead within a few weeks aged 77 or so. His assets were all still in his name and were passed down to his kids as he wanted, he never had to endure the mush-spooning, arse-wiping decade(s) that most old people have to go through before being allowed to die. I think he made the sensible and logical choice, a more palatable end for him and the assets he worked so hard for stay in the family and don't go to line the pockets of some care-home CEO
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 19 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

carvell wrote:

Do you have any other pension scheme at all?

Randomly assuming a £30k salary, the £1500 you're 'losing' is only 5%. That's a pretty small pension contribution.

If you don't have any other scheme, and you are opting to not add £1500 to your pension pot and take the free matched money that goes with it, what will you do when you retire?

State pension is £119 a week.


I fully believe there will be fuck all of it left by the time I retire. It'll have been frittered away in fees, inflation and tax. Then when it comes to time to buy an annuity, nobody will want the pot which will undoubtedly be used as a recepticle for the various companies bad investments.

Nah. I'll keep overpaying my mortgage until it's gone. Then I might get me some of those new platinum coins.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 20 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

10% non-contributory Cool
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38609422?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_daily_politics_and_sunday_politics&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=news_central

I thought it was interesting, as someone who isn't paying in.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends how old you are. If you are under 30 now and pay in I doubt you will get a penny in pension out of it by the end. I think they are just trying to get enough money together to pay pensions to the boomers and then leave the post-boomers with whatever they have in cash.

I'm not saying people shouldn't save for retirement, but I think the percentage given by non-morons to third parties should be limited to the minimum. Money under your direct control is yours, money held by a pension company is really theirs and the state's and you have to hope they will give it back again.

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:

Why should I scrimp and save while working, to have it all taken at the end of it? I'd rather enjoy my life now, and if the worst comes to it, I'll just not pay my council tax and get thrown into a prison for 3 square meals a day and a roof over my head Laughing


Take the third way. Store your wealth in untraceable assets e.g gold, silver. If you have 4 safety deposit boxes and a safe with £100,000 spread across them you would be in good shape. On paper you have nothing, in practice £100k.
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