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Brexit: What do you think will happen?

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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/18/nigel-farage-brexit-party-just-wreaked-havoc-strasbourg-left/

That photo. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
That photo. Laughing Laughing Laughing

That handshake. Sad You grip a man's palm, not hold his fingers.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Ste wrote:
That photo. Laughing Laughing Laughing

That handshake. Sad You grip a man's palm, not hold his fingers.


Well if you're in the lodge there's a code not to be ignored.

May have been wary of Junkers pocketing a few of his fingers too.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Ste wrote:
That photo. Laughing Laughing Laughing

That handshake. Sad You grip a man's palm, not hold his fingers.


I wouldn't read too much into it - probably the photo was taken just as Farage was trying to wrestle his hand back so as not to become entrapped in the grip of Europe!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:

Luckily all the MEPs seem to have been busy doing democratic things elsewhere, just a few Brexit Party people there running things Laughing .
How much do they get paid again.


The only MEPs in the place who are 100% sticking to their mandate.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Easy, Tiger. It was addressed way back, and mpd72 has just made the same points about May's Deal not being "Leave" at all. I'm surprised you've raised it again.

That won't do. A non-answer as expected. Argue your point, use a reference (no, I'm not going to look for your imagined point myself, it;'s up to you to show it having yourself made a claim), or STFU.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Easy, Tiger. It was addressed way back, and mpd72 has just made the same points about May's Deal not being "Leave" at all. I'm surprised you've raised it again.

That won't do. A non-answer as expected. Argue your point, use a reference (no, I'm not going to look for your imagined point myself, it;'s up to you to show it having yourself made a claim), or STFU.

Again then... it's true we didn't vote for No Deal because it was expected that in rejecting the political union we could maintain at least some of the trading agreements. Unfortunately the EU decided that we'd have to agree to various political elements which the referendum had already rejected before we'd even get to trade talks, i.e. not truly leave. So, bring on No Deal, take us out of the EU political empire and then we can negotiate mutually beneficial trade deals as a "third country."
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

That won't do. A non-answer as expected. Argue your point, use a reference (no, I'm not going to look for your imagined point myself, it;'s up to you to show it having yourself made a claim), or STFU.


Tbf, people are entitled to their opinions, whether or not they might be flawed. Not everyone has the time or inclination to go into every little detail, nor would many understand it all if they tried*, and much is just matters of opinion. So they fall back on making up their minds from the views of those who supposedly understand better. You claim to - fair enough. But you have to admit, the major weight of opinion is against you, including many high profile figures who do understand these things very well, many of whom also much prefer to leave with a WA. So it's little wonder people choose to dispute your view. Democracy is NOT telling them to STFU. That's what the Remainers in Parliament are trying to do to the people who voted to leave. Like it or not, democracy means all kinds of folk get the vote. If they didn't, you perhaps wouldn't even have May's WA to choose from - or the doctored version that Boris is likely to bring back at the last moment.

*Not to mention that many would like to see us leave with no WA, and sort things out from there, which is also a perfectly valid position.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Again then... it's true we didn't vote for No Deal because it was expected that in rejecting the political union we could maintain at least some of the trading agreements. Unfortunately the EU decided that we'd have to agree to various political elements which the referendum had already rejected before we'd even get to trade talks, i.e. not truly leave. So, bring on No Deal, take us out of the EU political empire and then we can negotiate mutually beneficial trade deals as a "third country."

Well, thanks for the reply, anyway. However, you said:

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
You've never understood May's "deal."

Your reply does not seem to have anything to do with that.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 18 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask yourself why you ever thought the deal was leaving the EU, then read again.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
But you have to admit

Again, I have no idea what you're trying to say. Some people apparently think we should have "deal", some "no-deal". Fine, that's a point of view.

However, to claim things as fact when they are clearly wrong is not "a point of view", it's an error.

Some people you say "make up their minds from the views of those who supposedly understand better"

So who's that, then? Who understands? How do we know they understand? How do we know they're not just spouting off in ignorance? It is necessary to put some effort into research to be able to know who's spouting off and who knows what they're on about.

You can't just say, for instance, "Oh I like so-and-so, and therefore he's right, or "Whatshisname likes cats but I like dogs so his understanding of horses is wrong". You need to have at least some understanding of horses to know who's right and who's wrong about the specifics.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Ask yourself why you ever thought the deal was leaving the EU, then read again.

Oh for Christ's sake not this crap again. Don't ask me to ask myself, you tell me.

You clearly don't think it's leaving the "eu", yet you're incapable of arguing. So I'll ask you a simple question about process:

Rearrange envisaged these events in time order:

a) Article 50 TEU completes.
b) The Withdrawal Agreement (this is what you call the "deal") is agreed.
c) The EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 completes.
d) The WA starts.
e) We leave the EU.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:20 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:


Some people you say "make up their minds from the views of those who supposedly understand better"

So who's that, then? Who understands? How do we know they understand? How do we know they're not just spouting off in ignorance? It is necessary to put some effort into research to be able to know who's spouting off and who knows what they're on about.


So come on then; why should we listen to your opinion? What qualifications do you have in this? And why do they trump those of so many others? Because you've read the WA and made some effort to understand it? And what if your understanding is wrong? I don't know who the hell you are! And this is what it comes down to for most - a matter of trust.

Some time ago, I asked you what you thought was the worst case scenario for the UK if we accepted the WA as it stands. If I remember rightly, you didn't get back to me on that. Who knows, it could be a convincing argument for me. My problem with it is, it seems to me to place the onus on being able to trust the EU, which I emphatically don't. You yourself said it is based largely on "good faith", whatever the hell that means in international law, and who would decide if someone were not acting in good faith, and what they could do about it.

But I think this is all largely academic anyway. Boris is not going to satisfy enough MPs to accept the WA even with an altered backstop. They've all shown their true colours, and the vast majority want Brexit scuppered, in any shape or form, even partial, maybe, with provisos or without. If you want out, that leaves only one other option - to fight for the clean break exit.

But if you wish to ignore all else I said, please at least accept the point that telling people to STFU isn't on. Unless it's Val. Or Scrat. Or similarly crazy people.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Ask yourself why you ever thought the deal was leaving the EU, then read again.

Oh for Christ's sake not this crap again. Don't ask me to ask myself, you tell me.

You clearly don't think it's leaving the "eu", yet you're incapable of arguing. So I'll ask you a simple question about process:

Rearrange envisaged these events in time order:

a) Article 50 TEU completes.
b) The Withdrawal Agreement (this is what you call the "deal") is agreed.
c) The EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 completes.
d) The WA starts.
e) We leave the EU.


f) During the subsequent transition period (which may be extended), the UK will remain a member of the European Economic Area, the single market and the customs union. EU laws will continue to apply and the UK will continue to pay into the EU budget.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:46 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

f) During the subsequent transition period (which may be extended), the UK will remain a member of the European Economic Area, the single market and the customs union. EU laws will continue to apply and the UK will continue to pay into the EU budget.


How long can it be extended for Jimbo, and on what basis might that happen?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

f) During the subsequent transition period (which may be extended), the UK will remain a member of the European Economic Area, the single market and the customs union. EU laws will continue to apply and the UK will continue to pay into the EU budget.


How long can it be extended for Jimbo, and on what basis might that happen?

I'm not sure if there was a limit, only that an extension would be by mutual consent.
As it stands the withdrawal agreement says, "We really are going to leave, just you wait and see, grrrr!!
Not really! Wink "
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

f) During the subsequent transition period (which may be extended), the UK will remain a member of the European Economic Area, the single market and the customs union. EU laws will continue to apply and the UK will continue to pay into the EU budget.


How long can it be extended for Jimbo, and on what basis might that happen?


Indefinitely if they cant find an acceptable solution to the NI backstop.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:27 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


She's like a left wing Robinson, begging for donations.


I wonder what proportion of hers will be spent on sniff though?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 19 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know, with the EU's stated declarations of wanting swift expansion to include Balkan states, and Verhofstadt's screaming about empire, I think the EU is placing itself firmly on a path towards war with Russia.
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