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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Posted: 19:48 - 10 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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gorillaonabike wrote: | BrexEconomics 101: Imagine Triumph if we Brexit.
- Our currency drops (which is has done already)
- Triumph sells more motorcycles internationally because the currency is lower
- Triumph sells more motorcycles in the UK because the currency is lower and tariffs prevent foreign competition.
- Triumph wins. Britain wins. Britain is great again.
Easy, right? |
Nope. Triumph manufacture their bikes in Thailand. They bolt them together in the UK and make a few in the UK.
You also forget about component costs.
If you devalue your currency.
Then the components unless you make them from raw materials dug out of the ground or have gigantic reserves all it does it push your costs up. If you trash your currency by 50% sure it makes your goods 50% cheaper but the parts and components to make them the price has also gone up 50% too.
Therefore this means that it only works if you make everything from scratch and or you add enormous amounts of value to the raw materials or components you receive from overseas.
gorillaonabike wrote: | But hold on a second, why is it that China or India with incredibly low costs, skilled workforces and great trade links aren't dominating the car industry? Why is the car industry, for example, dominated by countries with high costs, strong currencies and expensive workforces? Why is it that in the 'real world,' the opposite occurs? |
A couple of things quotas and tariffs which made Nissan move their plant to the UK to dodge them.
Also internal demand. Demand causes industries to cater for this demand. This forms a domestic industry. The domestic industry if it can produce stuff excess to its own demand it can export these if they meet the standards nations demand and subject to tariffs and quotas.
The companies then think. Do I make something really expensive to meet those standards overseas and sell maybe 1000 of them? Or do I make something cheaper and sell 10,000,000 of them? ____________________ Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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kawakid |
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kawakid World Chat Champion
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Val |
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Val World Chat Champion
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Posted: 22:23 - 10 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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I found a Brexit Christmas greetings card, it says the brightest and the best should have stayed in Nazareth:
https://i65.tinypic.com/16m3wxu.jpg ____________________ Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
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Rob Fzs |
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Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:52 - 10 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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How ironic. The UK not providing accommodation for free to travellers from the Middle East?
I don't think you thought that one through Village. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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nowhere.elysium |
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nowhere.elysium The Pork Lord
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 10:48 - 11 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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If this is true about the next attempt to derail Brexit, then it highlights exactly why we should leave.
https://news.sky.com/story/second-legal-challenge-to-brexit-could-be-tabled-in-irish-courts-10689932
sore loser Remoaner wrote: | He aims to bring an action in the Irish High Court in which he hopes to establish whether an Article 50 notification sent by the UK to Brussels could be overturned at a future date.
He is taking on the Irish government, the European Council and the European Commission and he is hoping UK MEPs who want the UK to remain in the EU will spearhead his legal action.Mr Maugham, who wants another EU referendum because he claims many people who voted Leave now regret doing so, claims Article 50 may, in fact, already have been triggered..... |
Already been triggered has it? Yeah right...
So he's a barrister who's raising money by crowdfunding to mount a legal case.... OK, any of that money for his fee is it?
So he wants to use an Irish and EU court to overturn the decision of the UK. What was that about lack of sovereignty again? ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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gorillaonabik... |
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gorillaonabik... Nearly there...
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Posted: 11:32 - 11 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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Itchy wrote: |
You also forget about component costs.
If you devalue your currency ... If you trash your currency by 50% sure it makes your goods 50% cheaper but the parts and components to make them the price has also gone up 50% too.
Therefore this means that it only works if you make everything from scratch and or you add enormous amounts of value to the raw materials or components you receive from overseas.
...
A couple of things quotas and tariffs which made Nissan move their plant to the UK to dodge them.
Also internal demand. Demand causes industries to cater for this demand. This forms a domestic industry. The domestic industry if it can produce stuff excess to its own demand it can export these if they meet the standards nations demand and subject to tariffs and quotas. |
So... hold on a second. In the real world (not economic 'theory') is it possible that a higher currency creates the internal market conditions for a product which is then exported? And is this why poorer countries with lower relative currencies make cheaper, lower grade products?
And all this talk about currency devaluation being a good thing for a first world country is just 'theory' and completely untrue. Is this correct? ____________________ FZR400 (blown engine), ZXR750 (blown engine), ZX6R (accident), CBR600 which had engine issues after which I learned to change gear..., CBR900, CBR924 (stolen), CB600, CB1300 (everything blew up), BMW K1300GT (written off, hit from rear while stationary), Bandit 1250 for a couple of months, Triumph Sprint ST 1050 (nicked) and somewhere in there, I wrote off a Ducati 748 at Cadwell. |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:26 - 11 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: | So why are Apple products made in China? Why aren't they pieces of crap that fall apart like half of the stuff you get (from China)? Why does the US still have an automotive industry producing cheap cars? |
Made in China stuff: It does not matter where their products are being made, what matters is who does the control of the build quality. With China it's simple, you get what you pay for.
'merica making cheap cars: Their cars are outdated, of poor build quality. Even the premium cars from the US of A are somehow cheap, in many aspects. For instance, I've seen the Tesla sedan car, and the stitching of the leather seats was laughable. I know you might say, that it does not matter, but it sure does when you can buy a very affordable VW concern car for far less money, with far better build quality. I know electric cars are more expensive, etc. etc., but when you buy a such expensive vehicle, you expect a certain degree of build quality. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:03 - 11 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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RhynoCZ wrote: | M.C wrote: | So why are Apple products made in China? Why aren't they pieces of crap that fall apart like half of the stuff you get (from China)? Why does the US still have an automotive industry producing cheap cars? |
Made in China stuff: It does not matter where their products are being made, what matters is who does the control of the build quality. With China it's simple, you get what you pay for.
'merica making cheap cars: Their cars are outdated, of poor build quality. Even the premium cars from the US of A are somehow cheap, in many aspects. For instance, I've seen the Tesla sedan car, and the stitching of the leather seats was laughable. I know you might say, that it does not matter, but it sure does when you can buy a very affordable VW concern car for far less money, with far better build quality. I know electric cars are more expensive, etc. etc., but when you buy a such expensive vehicle, you expect a certain degree of build quality. |
That was my point. Quality items can be made in China. American cars are basic and use poor quality materials, but you can buy a V8 pickup for 20k, over here that gets you an Astra diesel which's also made of plastic (just of a slightly higher quality ). |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:15 - 11 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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Oh, sorry M.C, I completely missed the bottom end of the first page. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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gorillaonabik... |
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gorillaonabik... Nearly there...
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Posted: 08:27 - 12 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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RhynoCZ wrote: |
Made in China stuff: It does not matter where their products are being made, what matters is who does the control of the build quality. With China it's simple, you get what you pay for. |
So let's look at the phone industry. Why is it that a country with a 'cheap' currency (China) is only producing quality products when a country with a very strong currency is controlling production? ____________________ FZR400 (blown engine), ZXR750 (blown engine), ZX6R (accident), CBR600 which had engine issues after which I learned to change gear..., CBR900, CBR924 (stolen), CB600, CB1300 (everything blew up), BMW K1300GT (written off, hit from rear while stationary), Bandit 1250 for a couple of months, Triumph Sprint ST 1050 (nicked) and somewhere in there, I wrote off a Ducati 748 at Cadwell. |
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Rob Fzs |
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Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
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gorillaonabik... |
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gorillaonabik... Nearly there...
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Posted: 01:02 - 13 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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Rob Fzs wrote: | urmm because they own the brand?
You can buy plenty of cheap knockoff iphones direct from china, no doubt its the same piece of equipment but people mostly buy on branding. |
Let's try it another way... How is it that countries with strong currencies dominate high end phone production? Why isn't China or India not simply blowing them out of the water as they have an incredibly 'cheap' currency which should give them a massive cost advantage? After all, iPhones are being manufactured in China, so why can't the Chinese simply produce an equivalent item, themselves?
And why is an identical situation found in the car industry?
The Brexit economic theory is that a lower currency should create manufacturing opportunities for the UK. Why is it that out in the real world, with 'real world' economic practice, the opposite occurs? ____________________ FZR400 (blown engine), ZXR750 (blown engine), ZX6R (accident), CBR600 which had engine issues after which I learned to change gear..., CBR900, CBR924 (stolen), CB600, CB1300 (everything blew up), BMW K1300GT (written off, hit from rear while stationary), Bandit 1250 for a couple of months, Triumph Sprint ST 1050 (nicked) and somewhere in there, I wrote off a Ducati 748 at Cadwell. |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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Rob Fzs |
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Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
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Posted: 09:40 - 13 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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gorillaonabike wrote: | Rob Fzs wrote: | urmm because they own the brand?
You can buy plenty of cheap knockoff iphones direct from china, no doubt its the same piece of equipment but people mostly buy on branding. |
Let's try it another way... How is it that countries with strong currencies dominate high end phone production? Why isn't China or India not simply blowing them out of the water as they have an incredibly 'cheap' currency which should give them a massive cost advantage? After all, iPhones are being manufactured in China, so why can't the Chinese simply produce an equivalent item, themselves?
And why is an identical situation found in the car industry?
The Brexit economic theory is that a lower currency should create manufacturing opportunities for the UK. Why is it that out in the real world, with 'real world' economic practice, the opposite occurs? |
They are doing, plenty of Chnese brands about, doesn't mean shit if people want the Iphone branding, that is the beauty of added value production, someone can produce something exactly the same and as cheaply as they like, if it's not got the street cred people don't want it
You're mixing up commodities with added value products. ____________________ '00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30> Yamaha RD350 YPVS F2 > Kawasaki ZZR 600 D1 > Yamaha TZR 250 2MA >Suzuki TL1000R > Yamaha TDR250 > Honda 929 blade > Suzuki SV1000 > Honda H100
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- Super Spammer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 11:24 - 13 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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mentalboy wrote: | I don't think anyone will have to worry too much about what does or doesn't happen concerning Brexit, at the rate the US president elect is winding up the Chinese we'll be staring at the wrong side of WWIII by March! |
Honest question, do you actually believe this?
Who's going to kick it off? China-China-China, run by a bunch of rational engineers, or Trump, with a consistent track record of positioning well and negotiating hard but never irrationally?
The latest data point on that: up to election day, he was telling Clinton II that she was going to jail. The instant he won, that idea went out the window, as it always does when he closes a deal. He's spent half his time since then meeting with his opponents, including even ecoloons. They've all come out smiling and praising him.
He's not at all vindictive, unhinged or unreasonable. Any appearance to the contrary is a bargaining tactic. Trump is a persuasive face-to-face deal maker, in a way that leverage-obsessed Clinton II would never have understood. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg nimbA
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:49 - 13 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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mentalboy wrote: |
Honestly, no.
If the Chinese wanted to up the ante they've only got to start playing silly beggars with their imports. It'd be like cutting off their nose to spite their face though, something the Americans might do but I don't think the Chinese are that stupid. |
Maybe I'm missing the gist here, but it's a buyers market. China is screwed if big Western economies reduce their dependence on buying Chinese goods. Their economy is slowing down quite a bit already.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37006911
Applying this to Brexit, rather than worrying about the UK, remember that in a buyer's market, we're net buyers to 22 of the 27 other EU countries. We hold the buying power, we're the majority customer not vendor. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:49 - 13 Dec 2016 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: |
The latest data point on that: up to election day, he was telling Clinton II that she was going to jail. The instant he won, that idea went out the window, as it always does when he closes a deal. He's spent half his time since then meeting with his opponents, including even ecoloons. They've all come out smiling and praising him.
He's not at all vindictive, unhinged or unreasonable. Any appearance to the contrary is a bargaining tactic. Trump is a persuasive face-to-face deal maker, in a way that leverage-obsessed Clinton II would never have understood. |
But all those nasty things he said he was going to do, and the media got upset about, he now doesn't look like doing and that's making the media upset. Surely the only way to make them happy's to follow through, right?
mpd72 wrote: |
Applying this to Brexit, rather than worrying about the UK, remember that in a buyer's market, we're net buyers to 22 of the 27 other EU countries. We hold the buying power, we're the majority customer not vendor. |
Gorillaonabike economics aside, it does indeed put us in a position of power, although no one seems to have realised that yet. I also wonder if there are people who want a bad deal, just to gain some sort of butthurt satisfaction. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 137 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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