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Brexit: What do you think will happen?

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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every news network (still) seems to be saying something different, but apparently the EU's perspective on this is that although we can revoke article 50 at anytime, extending it would require a good reason like a general election.

I think hope even the staunchest remainer can see how revoking article 50 would be a bad thing*, and cause a major backlash, but as I said before it's mainly a question of how they fudge the 'democracy' angle.

*however Laughing
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
Why are you here then?


To annoy you!

It works every single time, and every single time you react in the same manner, with petty insults and name calling, proving my point every single time, you simply can't help yourself!

HTH.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well. I've just dropped a note through my MPs door saying about how so many people are clueless and don't even know what's happening, let alone understand any of it. Perhaps there'll be a "Brexit for Dummies Guide" on the government website. Shrug. Bit late now.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Well. I've just dropped a note through my MPs door saying about how so many people are clueless and don't even know what's happening, let alone understand any of it. Perhaps there'll be a "Brexit for Dummies Guide" on the government website. Shrug. Bit late now.


What do you want, a medal?

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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Well. I've just dropped a note through my MPs door saying about how so many people are clueless and don't even know what's happening, let alone understand any of it. Perhaps there'll be a "Brexit for Dummies Guide" on the government website. Shrug. Bit late now.


One of my entitled constituents just put a letter through my door whining about Brexit so I just filed it in the shredder Laughing

I'm considering sending him a guide on how to respect other people but I'm not sure how he will read it with his head so far up his own arse Laughing

Wink
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
Well. I've just dropped a note through my MPs door saying about how so many people are clueless and don't even know what's happening, let alone understand any of it. Perhaps there'll be a "Brexit for Dummies Guide" on the government website. Shrug. Bit late now.


One of my entitled constituents just put a letter through my door whining about Brexit so I just filed it in the shredder Laughing

I'm considering sending him a guide on how to respect other people but I'm not sure how he will read it with his head so far up his own arse Laughing

Wink


I wasn't going to log in, but this demanded karma Laughing
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Sload
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone mentioned JC so https://youtu.be/ZadTDkjRA_U
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
Someone mentioned JC so https://youtu.be/ZadTDkjRA_U

Confirmation that he's a delusional dickhead. Thank you.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 10 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Sload wrote:
Someone mentioned JC so https://youtu.be/ZadTDkjRA_U

Confirmation that he's a delusional dickhead. Thank you.

It was that speech I was referring to earlier, they showed a snippet on the news of him calling for a general election, and that he's threatening to call a vote of no-confidence presumably when her deal gets rejected.
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Val
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PostPosted: 02:24 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Every news network (still) seems to be saying something different, but apparently the EU's perspective on this is that although we can revoke article 50 at anytime, extending it would require a good reason like a general election.

I think hope even the staunchest remainer can see how revoking article 50 would be a bad thing*, and cause a major backlash, but as I said before it's mainly a question of how they fudge the 'democracy' angle.

*however Laughing


That would be me. I'm staunchest remainer. Bear with me. There will be logic and facts.

Let's look at the facts:

1. UK is supposed to have Parliamentary democracy - means the only democratic way to decide anything is via Parliament.
2. Cameron decides to have a referendum on Brexit.
3. When terms and conditions of the referendum are discussed in Parliament the referendum is declared as advisory means there will be no strict provisions on the vote.
4. Advisory referendum decides to leave the EU. Based on criminal vote fraud. ANY other elections would have been declared as invalid. Not the referendum because it is advisory hence NOT a subject to strict provisions by law.
5. Instead of debating and deciding democratically in Parliament what are the consequences and what must be done, May decides to declare the same advisory referendum plus a lot of imaginary red lines and conditions invented personally by her as "the will of the people".
6. Some angry citizens give May to High Court blaming her for triggering A50 based on biggest electoral fraud in UK's history ever. The Judge decides the case has expired. The fucking biggest electoral fraud in UK's history has 3 months due date.
6. After 2 years of can kicking May present some fudge as a deal with EU.
7. Parliament literally laughs at the BS called a deal.
8. May tries to kick the can 1 month more.

The whole farce above is presented as "democracy".

Any sane person would have thought Parliament canceling the whole farce and revoking A50 is the best course of action.

Exactly what Swiss have done:
https://t.co/9Hq4aZdh6o

Apparently would be undemocratic to have working Parliamentary democracy and rule of law.

Are you saying that UK must ignore UK Parliamentary democracy and the rule of law in order to appease people who don't respect the rule of law and Parliamentary democracy because they blackmail UK with violence? Rolling Eyes
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Val
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PostPosted: 02:30 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
Someone mentioned JC so https://youtu.be/ZadTDkjRA_U


The faces. Of the people. At the end. Of the speech. Laughing Laughing Laughing

https://i.imgur.com/5oz6t1O.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/60U7Got.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bWSfpQr.jpg

What have been heard cannot be unheard Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Val
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PostPosted: 02:52 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Val wrote:
Given the fact Parliament must decide again afterwards what is the point to have a new referendum?

Whatever is the decision it must happen in the Parliament.

And there are only 2 options there:

1. May's deal.
2. Revoke A50 and stay in EU

Neither option delivers Brexit and both require Parliament to agree, but if can't decide there's a 3rd option which kicks in automatically on March 29th.


Only if there is no working Parliament and PM on 29 March.

You are argument is void. Because if there is working Parliament and PM both have a duty to do what is best for the UK.

It's like bus going off a cliff. It will fail if the driver don't hit the brakes. What are chances that to happen?

The same with No deal. It has no mandate. In fact because May have the power to cancel A50 with a single stroke of a pen, May failing to do that is a crime. Misconduct in public office. The same if the bus driver fails to hit the brakes and intentionally drives the bus off the cliff.

https://i.imgur.com/o8VysK9.png
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val I'm neutral politically. I also bear no grudge towards you. But...

Have you ever been dragged off the factory floor and forced to be present at something like that? I have. I was on bonus and losing money by the second. I also wanted to go to the toilet but they wouldn't let me because 'security'. I was not a happy person. It wasn't a simple attend whilst the speech happened either - I was interviewed by security and literally forced to attend. I was in the room for over two fucking hours.
It was fucking Tony Blair - I hated the man before he became famous to the whole country..

Article 50, illegality and all the other treason bollox. MPs etc are (mostly) protected in parliament. They're given extra permissions to push boundaries and overstep things - it's how it works that's all.
Do you honestly think that should May do something 'illegal' they'll lock her up? Do you think she cares if she does something 'illegal' and she's struck from office? Nah - she's going home with a fat cheque, mega pension and lifetime security is May. She doesn't give a shit what she does - her real job here is to delay and stall things.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Val I'm neutral politically. I also bear no grudge towards you. But...

Have you ever been dragged off the factory floor and forced to be present at something like that? I have. I was on bonus and losing money by the second. I also wanted to go to the toilet but they wouldn't let me because 'security'. I was not a happy person. It wasn't a simple attend whilst the speech happened either - I was interviewed by security and literally forced to attend. I was in the room for over two fucking hours.
It was fucking Tony Blair - I hated the man before he became famous to the whole country..

Article 50, illegality and all the other treason bollox. MPs etc are (mostly) protected in parliament. They're given extra permissions to push boundaries and overstep things - it's how it works that's all.
Do you honestly think that should May do something 'illegal' they'll lock her up? Do you think she cares if she does something 'illegal' and she's struck from office? Nah - she's going home with a fat cheque, mega pension and lifetime security is May. She doesn't give a shit what she does - her real job here is to delay and stall things.


Jeremy's speech wasn't very good, just the same old idea of spending loads of money on whatever you want. It's really good that he realises what the problems are and I agreed with him on those points. The pot he has available is the same as the one the Tories will have so he can't spend much more than they can and everyone knows it! He says he wants to help future generations but increasing the national debt doesn't do that and he has indicated that might be his approach. It looked a bit like he was giving the speech from the corner of a service station on the M1 Laughing

The reaction of the clerks in the commons to Bercow's one off parliamentary exception was much better. He refused to give out their advice, because their advice was "don't do it".
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Let's look at the facts:

1. UK is supposed to have Parliamentary democracy - means the only democratic way to decide anything is via Parliament.
2. Cameron decides to have a referendum on Brexit.
3. When terms and conditions of the referendum are discussed in Parliament the referendum is declared as advisory means there will be no strict provisions on the vote.
4. Advisory referendum decides to leave the EU. Based on criminal vote fraud. ANY other elections would have been declared as invalid. Not the referendum because it is advisory hence NOT a subject to strict provisions by law.


Well, you lost it at number four.

1) Nearly true, but the people decide some things.
2) Yup.
3) OK.
4) Yes, no, no.

4a) You missed out: Parliament, by a large majority, decided to write the result of the referendum into law and voted for us to leave the EU.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Val wrote:
Let's look at the facts:

1. UK is supposed to have Parliamentary democracy - means the only democratic way to decide anything is via Parliament.
2. Cameron decides to have a referendum on Brexit.
3. When terms and conditions of the referendum are discussed in Parliament the referendum is declared as advisory means there will be no strict provisions on the vote.
4. Advisory referendum decides to leave the EU. Based on criminal vote fraud. ANY other elections would have been declared as invalid. Not the referendum because it is advisory hence NOT a subject to strict provisions by law.


Well, you lost it at number four.

1) Nearly true, but the people decide some things.
2) Yup.
3) OK.
4) Yes, no, no.

4a) You missed out: Parliament, by a large majority, decided to write the result of the referendum into law and voted for us to leave the EU.


Val is trying to suggest that "advisory" is equivalent to "a suggestion", but this is not the case. It's more "advisory" in the sense of "government legal advice". The government cannot be compelled to follow the advice, just like it cannot be compelled not to not nuke Belgium. A referendum is binding by its very nature. Val would of course be making the very same argument were the referendum on something he agreed with. Were Jeremy to have won the election I'm sure he wouldn't be complaining about all those lies about paying off everyone's tuition fees Laughing Also the entire EU project to date has been built on lying and misleading the public so that's not a very compelling excuse. 35 years of lies vs a dispute about the difference between net contributions of £180m vs gross contributions £350m Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Val's idea of democracy is that we ignore referendum results, in which case there isn't any point in ever holding one Neutral
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I think Val's idea of democracy is that we ignore referendum results, in which case there isn't any point in ever holding one Neutral


He's coming close to being "plonked", for posting lies and crap like the other ones. Were it possible to have a sensible discussion, maybe not. However.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I recall, the 'advisory' aspect was buried in a Parliamentary Briefing document and was never spoken of until - surprise! we voted the wrong way. The government's own leaflet was discussed in Parliament and its clear statement that, "We will implement what you decide" wasn't disputed.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val can make the argument of it not being legally binding, he is accurate. You can and in fact do argue this is a technicality yet it doesn't falsify his claim.

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 11 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doh! Do tell me the point of holding a referendum if you ignore the result then?

2.5 years on and it's the same tired arguments Sleeping
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