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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 15:01 - 10 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: |
If that makes me a socialist, so be it. What's in a name. |
Socialism shouldn't be seen as an anathema. People get fixated on extreme socialism, Marxism, that kind of thing. I think most people would say they are closer to the centre in their politics than to the extreme wings. It's about how you reconcile the two sides - each has something to offer. Currently, the western way is failing to achieve this, in Europe and the US. Business has been allowed too much of its own way. They have shown that they are not responsible enough to be allowed this.
If the EU had a clear vision that promoted this kind of social responsibility, I might even be for staying in. But if they have such a policy, they're not communicating it very well. Indeed, from what I've read, it took Brexit and the rise of populism in EU countries to make them see they even had a problem, and even now, they don't seem to be giving it the serious attention it needs. The EU is too much a pet project of a few politicians and industrialists, most of whom the vast majority of people neither know nor care about. Or that's how it seems to me and many others.
| Im-a-Ridah wrote: | I just don't think a citizens wage would work currently as our economy is too much of a low wage economy and the tax base wouldn't be enough to support the number of people who would just opt to watch TV. There would be benefits in the state paying people to develop businesses and technology while having something to fall back on but this is really just describing a PhD in STEM but in that case its just a paycut as they currently get £15k. We could also use it to get more care workers, but it would be easier to just employ more carers.
However a system of grant applications for people to buy tools to start a job or develop technology or a business might be a good idea. |
I think businesses, especially large companies, should be made to invest more in the communities they use for their workforces. For example, since we currently have a housing crisis in this country, they could perhaps build housing for their workers. It wouldn't be the first time it has been done, and perhaps there are models and examples that could be tweaked to work more widely. But not as a voluntary act by individual businesses; more as a part of trade policy - want to trade here? Make a contribution to the country and the people then. 
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| M.C |
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M.C
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| Posted: 15:03 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | What I want will never happen (in my lifetime) for a myriad of reasons.
I want people to take responsibility for their actions and not expect to be mollycoddled from the cradle to the grave.
I want politicians to do what (they think) is best for the country and not what's best for themselves. Even if I don't agree with it I'd support it.
I want immigration stopped until housing, infrastructure and wages have caught up with demand and costs.
I want a government wage paid to all adults - £10000 a year tax free before any other earnings. However it would mean no social security, no dole, no housing allowance, no tax credits, no child allowance, nothing else. You spend it on booze, you starve in the gutter. You work and you can add to it and start paying taxes.
Amongst lots of other things.
If that makes me a socialist, so be it. What's in a name. |
With no safety net it means anyone who loses their job is homeless, and effectively unemployable. What I'd like is what we had before Thatcher/Blair, where if you were academically inclined you went to a good school, where ordinary people bought houses, where ordinary people if they couldn't afford a house were housed by the council.
Where working equaled a better quality of life, rather than now where you're better off on benefits, and I don't mean that in a f'ing gimmedat dole scrounger way, more a how the f**k have 'they' gotten away with squeezing peoples living standards so much that this is the case.
If a party ever came along that delivered all that, they'd get my vote. |
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| Posted: 15:11 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: |
I want a government wage paid to all adults - £10000 a year tax free before any other earnings. However it would mean no social security, no dole, no housing allowance, no tax credits, no child allowance, nothing else. You spend it on booze, you starve in the gutter. You work and you can add to it and start paying taxes.
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A nice idea but completely unworkable.
50,000,000 adults X £10,000 = £500,000,000,000
The current benefits system all in, including pensions is less than £350BN.
Who's going to pay for this free money?
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 15:15 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: | | Polarbear wrote: |
I want a government wage paid to all adults - £10000 a year tax free before any other earnings. However it would mean no social security, no dole, no housing allowance, no tax credits, no child allowance, nothing else. You spend it on booze, you starve in the gutter. You work and you can add to it and start paying taxes.
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A nice idea but completely unworkable.
50,000,000 adults X £10,000 = £500,000,000,000
The current benefits system all in, including pensions is less than £350BN.
Who's going to pay for this free money? |
Which is why I said about business making a better contribution to society. A better, fairer way of doing things in my view. Trouble is, businessmen are too greedy, and globalism allows them to wriggle out of any responsibility.
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| Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah
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| Posted: 15:16 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: | | Polarbear wrote: |
I want a government wage paid to all adults - £10000 a year tax free before any other earnings. However it would mean no social security, no dole, no housing allowance, no tax credits, no child allowance, nothing else. You spend it on booze, you starve in the gutter. You work and you can add to it and start paying taxes.
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A nice idea but completely unworkable.
50,000,000 adults X £10,000 = £500,000,000,000
The current benefits system all in, including pensions is less than £350BN.
Who's going to pay for this free money? |
Tax income would be lower too. |
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 15:29 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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OK, other extreme - Just cull the scroungers.
I bet, if we could break down completely paid benefits it would be like the rich. A very small number having a huge percentage of the payouts.
Lets cull the worst pour encourager les autres 
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 15:43 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | OK, other extreme - Just cull the scroungers.
I bet, if we could break down completely paid benefits it would be like the rich. A very small number having a huge percentage of the payouts.
Lets cull the worst pour encourager les autres |
Rogerborg is back! 
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Polarbear
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 16:09 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Not the same. That was basically free spending money. They still had other benefits.
My version is no benefits system, no old age pension. You get the 10 grand a year and that's it.
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| Posted: 16:18 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: |
Not the same. That was basically free spending money. They still had other benefits.
My version is no benefits system, no old age pension. You get the 10 grand a year and that's it. |
Or 7 grand if the cost to the state is going to be the same.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 17:58 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | | Polarbear wrote: | Yes I grew up on a shit hole estate in glorious Weston-super-Mare but my Mum worked like fuck while my Gran brought me up. She even took an extra evening job just so she could buy me a new Grammar school uniform and I wouldn't have to go and get from the school cast offs.
Scrounger? Difficult one but I think once you have gone say 2 generations without anyone in the family contributing rather than taking from the system, you should be able categorise them as congenital wasters. |
Privileged  Would you say attending a grammar school helped you get out of that environment? The problem today is that people are born on rough estates, attend shit local schools, and get stuck there. It seems to be it's those who get an unusual opportunity, I guess grammar school counted as that in ye olden days, those that have a natural talent, or unusually supportive parents that make it out. |
My brother went to a grammar school, and I went to a comprehensive. He went into the army as a tank mechanic, and I went into the RAF as an avionics technician. So grammar schools don't necessarily say that much about a person. Schools other than grammar schools can be good seats of learning. It probably depends more on where the schools are located, their catchment.
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 19:03 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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One of the three bosses at my place didn't even get his English O Level, and he's not making a bad go of things. He went to a grammar school too, though I think what helped him was a nice redundancy payoff for him and one of the other bosses, which let them set up what they're doing now.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 19:23 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: | My brother went to a grammar school, and I went to a comprehensive. He went into the army as a tank mechanic, and I went into the RAF as an avionics technician. So grammar schools don't necessarily say that much about a person. Schools other than grammar schools can be good seats of learning. It probably depends more on where the schools are located, their catchment. |
Is he considerably richer than you?  I've met people who went to grammar school and ended up nowhere, and those who claim it was key to their success. I would say the former seem to generally be f**k-ups, I'm just curious as I don't know anyone under the age of 50 who went to a grammar school, even though they still exist with apparently more places than ever before they seem to be uber hard to get into. |
He's not rich, that's for sure. He now has an ok job, but still has to be a bit careful with money. He passed his 11+ and I didn't. Another time, I might well have; I was certainly doing well enough at school to have been capable.
I got 7 O levels at grade C and above (A in physics  ), I think he achieved similar. The teachers at my school were mostly pretty good, and disruption by other kids (and occasionally by me  ) wasn't too bad.
I will say I actually briefly went to a grammar school for 6th form (my mum apparently talked them into taking me  ) and I really struggled. I like to think it's because they did a very different O level syllabus to me, and there seemed to be big gaps in my learning when I tried their A level courses. But it might be because I actually am thick Still, got my B-TEC II in avionics and aerospace studies
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| Posted: 20:08 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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There's an argument to raising standards in all schools, it's just for a very long time there was no investment to drive that. For example I read recently my old school had a 4% pass rate in the 70s/80s/90s  I think I caught the tail end of Blair's education education education, we started off in old Victorian and asbestos 50's structures with no equipment, and then by the end there were new buildings going up and things were improving. Obviously that has all stopped with the Tories.
I shudder to think what it must be like in other parts of the country, mainly non-urban areas that didn't get any money. I dunno it seems like Britain used to be more of a meritocracy. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 20:14 - 10 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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I didn't understand that
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Riejufixing
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| Posted: 00:38 - 11 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Mrs May has rejected it. Good to see she's still doing the right thing:
"Theresa May has effectively ruled out Labour’s ideas for a compromise Brexit plan, shutting off another potential route to a deal as business groups warned that with less than 50 days to go the departure process was entering the “emergency zone”.
The prime minister’s formal response to Jeremy Corbyn’s proposal, in a letter to the Labour leader, stressed her objections to keeping the UK in some form of customs union, saying this would prevent the UK making its own trade deals." (Guradian) |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 76 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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