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Diggs
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 Posted: 15:15 - 12 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
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Its all politics and posturing because the US/Mexico border already has the fence where natural obstacles don't exist...
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 15:35 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Suntan Sid wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: | With the problem the US has on the Mexican border, seems like a no-brainer to me. |
Two thirds of all "illegal" immigrants enter the US legally, they simply don't bother to leave when their visas/work permits end.
Of course clamping down on the majority of illegals would mean the end of a lot of cheap, unaccountable, labour.
The border agencies could stop handing out thousands of work permits, everyday, at the border crossing points. It would be twice as effective as building a wall and cost a lot less, but who's going to mow the lawns and clean the rooms and toilets at the orange turd's country clubs and golf courses then? |
The reason I'm not challenging you on this is because it seems you can't know how much of what you read and see on the news is for real these days. I certainly won't believe anything anyone on here says 
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bhinso
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| Posted: 15:43 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | Its all politics and posturing because the US/Mexico border already has the fence where natural obstacles don't exist... |
Not strictly true that is it?
Only some of the 2,000 miles border (650 miles) currently has some sort of fence or wall, but most of it is old, low and in bad repair with holes all the way through it. It's certainly not all of the area without natural objects, by quite some margin.
His plans are to make it a lot more effective than the current one which has many areas where people quite happily climb over or walk through it in full view of the media.
Maybe the EU can show him how it's done, as they quietly built their 760KM wall without the anti Trump seemingly batting an eyelid?
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| Posted: 15:46 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| bhinso wrote: | | mpd72 CPT wrote: | https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi83MH5u7TgAhULnxQKHfx5A1MQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.ae%2Fworld%2Fmena%2Fsyria-turkey-border-wall-completed-1.738637&psig=AOvVaw0IMZ6PG6o5t9xmgFj-7SoA&ust=1550001570836655 |
I tried to click on that but I get:
"Kennisgeving voor omleiding
De pagina waarop je je bevindt, probeert je naar https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/syria-turkey-border-wall-completed-1.738637 te sturen.
Als je de betreffende pagina niet wilt bezoeken, kun je teruggaan naar de vorige pagina."
Web sites at work come up in different languages. Like when I open facebook (at lunch of course) it is in Arabic.
Unless it's just the UK preparing for about 30 years time  |
Just a link posted from my phone to this site, showing the 760KM wall built by the EU, which all the Pro EU, Anti Trump conveniently ignored quietly being built, because that would show massive hypocrisy when they wont let Trump build one.
The link was how my Iphone bastardises links found from Google. This was the original link.
https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/syria-turkey-border-wall-completed-1.738637
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| Posted: 16:11 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: |
You did (iirc)  I was never old enough 'to vote for Blair', although I remember at the time Blair was seen kinda like Obama; the guy who was gonna change everything. I think a lot of it was people pissed off after 18 years of the Tories and Major who wasn't exactly a charismatic character. |
Correct, I seem to remember a lot like me who saw him at the time as something different from only knowing a Tory government. The one and only time I'll ever vote Labour. The first thing that bastard did was double his wage, introduce more taxes, then open the floodgates on immigration.
| M.C wrote: | I remember 'Mondeo man', I doubt the landslide Labour won with in 1997 left Blair feeling uneasy and the need to increase the Labour voter base. Also it hasn't worked has it? We've had a Tory/coalition for getting on a decade now and I don't see the Great JC getting voted in unless the Tories really implode.
Why and how Blair massively increased immigration in his very first year in office... I've still yet to find a satisfactory answer and explanation. |
It's pretty obvious who immigrants on the whole will vote for though isn't it? There were quite a few who worked closely with Blair at the time who have said the same thing. He wont admit it though as it;s hardly patriotic and stinks of him putting himself ahead of the country, just like all the feckwits involved now.
| Quote: | The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.
He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.
Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons. |
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Diggs
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| Posted: 16:19 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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What you don't see in that picture are the patrols. It isn't as straightforward as crossing a river, wall or fence because much of the countryside around the border is like in your picture so walking isn't easy, and the locals don't take kindly to wetbacks.
Years ago I was on a Greyhound bus in Texas and it was pulled over by the plod at a makeshift checkpoint. Gun-totin' sherrifs came onboard, hauled off everybody who wasn't clearly white or black and put them in a cage. I didn't see what happened to them as we drove off, but i can't imagine they were given visas on the spot.
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| Posted: 16:26 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: | It's pretty obvious who immigrants on the whole will vote for though isn't it? There were quite a few who worked closely with Blair at the time who have said the same thing. He wont admit it though as it;s hardly patriotic and stinks of him putting himself ahead of the country, just like all the feckwits involved now.
| Quote: | The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.
He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.
Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons. |
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I'm not denying that it just doesn't fully explain the situation for me. Also if you think about it Labour were voted out partly due to immigration. Remember Gordon Brown and the 'bigoted woman'?
| Diggs wrote: | What you don't see in that picture are the patrols. It isn't as straightforward as crossing a river, wall or fence because much of the countryside around the border is like in your picture so walking isn't easy, and the locals don't take kindly to wetbacks.
Years ago I was on a Greyhound bus in Texas and it was pulled over by the plod at a makeshift checkpoint. Gun-totin' sherrifs came onboard, hauled off everybody who wasn't clearly white or black and put them in a cage. I didn't see what happened to them as we drove off, but i can't imagine they were given visas on the spot. |
The traffickers knew how to get around the motion sensors, patrols etc.. In the doc' a Mexican gang were basically guarding the boarder. I'm sure I posted it somewhere probably in the migrant thread. The point is there's a massive illegal trade involving people getting ripped off, robbed, raped... sounds familiar doesn't it? This all culminates in people hoping over a barbed wire fence. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 16:32 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | What you don't see in that picture are the patrols. It isn't as straightforward as crossing a river, wall or fence because much of the countryside around the border is like in your picture so walking isn't easy, and the locals don't take kindly to wetbacks.
Years ago I was on a Greyhound bus in Texas and it was pulled over by the plod at a makeshift checkpoint. Gun-totin' sherrifs came onboard, hauled off everybody who wasn't clearly white or black and put them in a cage. I didn't see what happened to them as we drove off, but i can't imagine they were given visas on the spot. |
Does this give an accurate picture of how it is everywhere along the border at all times? I suspect not, because of other things one reads and sees. But I couldn't say for certain. The recent news about hordes of people from various South American countries flooding towards the US border suggests Trump has a point about his wall. But when even the BBC adopts its own agenda these days, who knows without going and studying a situation for themselves? One day on a Greyhound bus is hardly going to give you a comprehensive picture of what's going on.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 16:35 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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It is 2000 miles long so nothing is going to be truly effective, particularly when there's money involved...
My point is that without help and somewhere to stay and work, the average Mexican and his/her family can't just walk into the US and expect not to get caught. A bit like the UK really...
The whole business of 'the wall' was a symbolic gesture on Trump's part.
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| Posted: 16:35 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | What you don't see in that picture are the patrols. It isn't as straightforward as crossing a river, wall or fence because much of the countryside around the border is like in your picture so walking isn't easy, and the locals don't take kindly to wetbacks. |
Really, you do seem to be an expert on this one. How many times have you tried crossing over the border illegally? You've done a lot in your life Diggs, you should write a book.
You think all 2,000 miles are secure? It's easy to checkpoint drugs and weapons at a border passing, but would be pretty easy to cross the border with them with some wire cutters. Do you think that bloke in the photo trecked miles to get there or drove to nearby? The US knows the majority of drugs is coming in across that border. Give Trump a break, he's doing nothing the EU haven't already using your money on the Turkish Syrian border.
| Diggs wrote: | Years ago I was on a Greyhound bus in Texas and it was pulled over by the plod at a makeshift checkpoint. Gun-totin' sherrifs came onboard, hauled off everybody who wasn't clearly white or black and put them in a cage. I didn't see what happened to them as we drove off, but i can't imagine they were given visas on the spot. |
Which just goes to highlight the level of illegal immigration and need to justify the barrier, just like the EU did quietly.
That Mexican border is where most of the drugs enter the US, I don;t blame them for wanting it secured.
| Quote: | In 2010, the FBI released a statement detailing the southwestern border and Mexico’s involvement in the illicit drug trade within the United States. At the time, Mexico was the No. 1 foreign supplier of marijuana. While Mexico produces no cocaine, the cartels do move Colombian cocaine through South and Central America into the U.S. through Mexico.
Mexico is also the largest supplier of methamphetamine. The country has labs established on both sides of the border that are controlled by Mexican drug cartels. Although Asia and the Middle East were the largest producers of heroin, 39% of heroin identified by DEA signature programs originated from Mexico, making the southwest border the source for many heroin overdoses west of the Mississippi River.
Today, the data show the majority of marijuana drug trafficking still takes place along the southwest border. The coastal borders (Miami, New Orleans, Ramey) see a great deal of traffic but the emphasis is largely on marijuana and cocaine, suggesting the coastal borders are secondary channels largely for Colombian cartels that push these primary drugs from South America. |
In 2014 alone, 2,445,200 lbs weight of drugs was sized coming across the Mexico border.
https://drugabuse.com/featured/drug-trafficking-across-borders/
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| Posted: 16:45 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: |
The whole business of 'the wall' was a symbolic gesture on Trump's part. |
Prove it.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 16:55 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Of course its not all secure. It never can be because the border is 2000 miles long. To put it in simple terms, it is most secure where towns straddle the border and least secure where crossing leads to nowhere. The US considers desert and scrubland a natural obstacle because nobody can survive for long or travel north without help.
I'm no expert on 2000 miles of border, but then again neither is anybody else here by the sound of it. All I know is what I have seen and experienced for myself.
Another example of US border control is the ease with which I managed to cross from Mexico without the correct paperwork some years ago because I didn't look Mexican. One of the blokes with me was held in a detention room and strip-searched before they'd let him cross because he was a bit Spanish looking, even though he had all the right bits. He comes from Batley, so it wasn't the accent....
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Posted: 17:05 - 12 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: |
I'm no expert on 2000 miles of border, but then again neither is anybody else here by the sound of it. All I know is what I have seen and experienced for myself. |
Sigh. This is it, isn't it? And yet still people make sweeping statements based on a couple of personal experiences, or because it's what they like to think. One day, maybe the world will get back to facts, or at least lose some of the unjustified arrogance with which they claim to know best 
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| Posted: 17:11 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | Diggs wrote: |
The whole business of 'the wall' was a symbolic gesture on Trump's part. |
Prove it. |
He's been in power for two years and the money to build the wall hasn't even been approved. Being the smart cookie that he is, he would have made sure he had enough potential support in Congress or the ability to raise the money some other way, before wooing voters with talk of a wall, surely?
Prove that he knew he could do it before making the promise...
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| Posted: 17:19 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
Prove it. |
Prove that he knew he could do it before making the promise... |
You're the one making the sweeping statements and claiming accurate knowledge. I don't need to prove anything, because I haven't claimed anything. I'm happy to admit I don't know, just have my suspicions.
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| Posted: 17:25 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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^ Speaking of arrogant know-it-alls
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Diggs
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| Posted: 17:26 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | | Diggs wrote: | He's been in power for two years and the money to build the wall hasn't even been approved. Being the smart cookie that he is, he would have made sure he had enough potential support in Congress or the ability to raise the money some other way, before wooing voters with talk of a wall, surely?
Prove that he knew he could do it before making the promise... |
It was a campaign pledge. He knew it wouldn't be approved. He's made sure everyone knows it was blocked by the democrats. They can't say where's the wall you promised.
Trump appears to be smarter than you  |
And that is my point. That is why I say it is symbolic, not reality. Its not a case of me claiming undue 'accurate knowledge' because it is a fact that the money hasn't been approved.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 17:29 - 12 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | ^ Speaking of arrogant know-it-alls |
I have never claimed to know it all. Are we going to fall out here?
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 72 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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