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Riejufixing
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Riejufixing
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 Posted: 01:10 - 15 Mar 2019  Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: | Christ on a bike, I'm not sure I've ever encountered anyone as thick as you, how many times do you need to be told that May's WA isn't leaving, it's counting us out of the EU, but counting us in to all their rules and regulations, what ever they might be, potentially forever and with us having absolutely no say or influence on any of them. |
Well, how about arguing your point. No? You won't do it? Go on, have a go!
What is "counting us out of the EU"? I take it you mean "legally fully and completely leaving the EU". That's what will happen if the WA is passed, isn't it.
If you have any coherent argument why that is not so., feel free to express it here. Now, please. |
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Shaft
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Posted: 01:19 - 15 Mar 2019  Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: | | Shaft wrote: | Christ on a bike, I'm not sure I've ever encountered anyone as thick as you, how many times do you need to be told that May's WA isn't leaving, it's counting us out of the EU, but counting us in to all their rules and regulations, what ever they might be, potentially forever and with us having absolutely no say or influence on any of them. |
Well, how about arguing your point. No? You won't do it? Go on, have a go!
What is "counting us out of the EU"? I take it you mean "legally fully and completely leaving the EU". That's what will happen if the WA is passed, isn't it.
If you have any coherent argument why that is not so., feel free to express it here. Now, please. |
What part of my post don't you understand?
Explain under May's deal, how we "legally, fully and completely leave the EU", because I'm all ears, as are all the remainers and all the leavers, because they clearly don't see it that way, or it would've been unanimously voted through, first time around.
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struan80
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Riejufixing
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| Posted: 01:44 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: | Explain under May's deal, how we "legally, fully and completely leave the EU", because I'm all ears, as are all the remainers and all the leavers, because they clearly don't see it that way, or it would've been unanimously voted through, first time around. |
You don't *know*, after all the information that's out there, as well as in this thread? Good Lord!
Anyway.
The leaving mechanism is that Article 50 TEU completes, as does our own EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018. This was to be on March 29th, at 11 p.m. When that happens, we are out of the EU:
o - A.50 (3) says "The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question", these being various Treaties including those of Lisbon, Nice, etc.
o - Our own EU (Withdrawal) Act says: "The European Communities Act 1972 is repealed on exit day".
Only after we're out does the Withdrawal Agreement actually start.
Now, you say "all the remainers, and all the leavers, think this". That's patently not so. Remainers are congratulating themselves that the WA was voted down, for the reason that if it comes in, we have already left the EU. Remainers will not vote for something that gets us out of the EU because they are Remainers! I think I posted about "Best for Britain" a page or so ago[1]. Now Leavers also know this. A larger number than before voted for the WA on the 12th, to try and avoid a significant delay to our leaving, and probable no-Brexit. These included people like David Davis, who is actually a Leaver, I hope you'll agree.
[1] Yes, p.239, Posted: 00:52 - 14 Mar 2019 |
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Im-a-Ridah
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Sister Sledge
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Diggs
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| Posted: 09:10 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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My latest prediction - EU agrees to the extension on the proviso that Parliament votes to agree TM's deal before 29th March, otherwise no extension and we leave with no deal. Parliament agrees after much public shouting and blustering, but in reality most MPs are relieved that this bit is done. The general public comes to accept it, again after much shouting and blustering, and life goes on for better or worse.
People forget about Brexit as we enter a summer of violence between the IRA v Unionists plus Muslims v YL followers.
We have a general election. Too close to call atm, but definitely not a TM or JC lead government.
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bhinso
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| Posted: 12:31 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: |
Christ on a bike, I'm not sure I've ever encountered anyone as thick as you, how many times do you need to be told that May's WA isn't leaving, it's counting us out of the EU, but counting us in to all their rules and regulations, what ever they might be, potentially forever and with us having absolutely no say or influence on any of them.
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It's got to be an EU stooge. Nobody is that thick to still believe what it does after being shown time and time again, why it's wrong.
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Super Spammer
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| Posted: 12:37 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: | "legally fully and completely leaving the EU". That's what will happen if the WA is passed, isn't it. |
Completely leaving the EU means still being tied by it's rules, regulations, ECJ, customs union, single market, freedom of movement, fishing quotas, in fact things are no different to now, other than coughing up £38BN and having no control over our future.
It's not leaving in any way shape or form. Most root vegetables have more of an understanding over it than you do. It's just kicking the can further down the road, tying us to the EU and giving all the control over our future to the EU. The backstop gives the EU the ultimate say over whether we leave and if so, how it happens.
You're getting worse than Val now with your inane pro EU propaganda.
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| bhinso |
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bhinso
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bhinso
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| Posted: 13:58 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Turd deal is going to be voted for for the Turd time.
One thing i heard on the news from Brussels last night was that the EU "Don't want the UK to leave without a deal".
This is obvious, but the first time I've heard it admitted. Previously it's been made out like the offered deal is purely out of generosity and will benefit UK way more than EU..
They're clearly much better negotiators than us  |
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| Posted: 14:12 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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| bhinso wrote: | Turd deal is going to be voted for for the Turd time.
One thing i heard on the news from Brussels last night was that the EU "Don't want the UK to leave without a deal".
This is obvious, but the first time I've heard it admitted. Previously it's been made out like the offered deal is purely out of generosity and will benefit UK way more than EU..
They're clearly much better negotiators than us |
It's pretty obvious. We've said we won't leave without a deal and the EU won't offer us anything other than May's, EU written turd.
It really is the most shite deal imaginable and will give the EU even more power over us, so they can actually decide if we ever leave and how we leave. We have zero control over it and if we can't agree on our future relationship, they still have us trapped for as long as they want because of the Backstop. They can also carry on charging us in 2 years time, on top of the £38BN gift.
May is either stupid or in their pocket, but it's quite clear, we have no choice but to become slaves of the EU and called it "leaving".
You couldn't make this sh1t up and I seriously think she'll get" Coxed" by some nutter over how she's handed this countries future to the EU.
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Riejufixing
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| Posted: 14:26 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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| bhinso wrote: | Nothing will change in TM Turd deal. |
The thing is, why do people think it's a "turd deal"? I really don't get that, and I am interested to find out, if anyone can be bothered to post anything factual.
Here are some of my thoughts on it:
First:
1a) Remainers hate it, because if it starts, we've already left the EU.
1b) The ERG hate it because it's not an abrupt break and we're still legally linked to the EU and "we might be trapped" (see (2b)).
1c) Labour's leadership hate it because it's not the very soft Brexit (permanent customs union) they want.
Is there anything controversial or inaccurate there?
Second:
There's concern that we might be "trapped in the backstop".
2a) Despite the fact that the EU don't want us in the backstop, because we'd have access to the EUSM without any budgetary contribution at all.
2b) The Attorney-General has said we cannot be trapped in the backstop against our will. There are several possible legal ways out, and one sure-fire way out, although we might be loathe to take that one.
Third:
People moan that "We'd have to pay £39bn for nothing".
3a) Even though if we left "no deal" we would probably pay half of that anyway.
3b) For that money, we continue to have full access to the EU and its markets as if we had not left: we'd be a non-member state with full access to the EUSM and all markets the EU has trade agreements with. That trade comes to about £260bn/year.
3c) The money could be considered a straight bribe.
Is there anything controversial or inaccurate there?
Fourth:
"We can't make trade deals with anyone during transition" although in fact:
4a) We can make trade deals AND enter into them with entities the EU does not have a trade deal with.
4b) We can make trade deals but not enter into them until the end of the transition period with any country the EU has a trade deal with (about 40). This is because we'd have two different legal trade deals with the same country at the same time, which is unworkable.
Is there anything controversial or inaccurate there?
If you or anyone else cares to reply, preferably on specific points so as not to get lost in a criss-cross of arguments, I really will be interested. |
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Riejufixing
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| Posted: 15:11 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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| Riejufixing wrote: |
The thing is, why do people think it's a "turd deal"? I really don't get that, and I am interested to find out, if anyone can be bothered to post anything factual.
. |
You've been told countless times but your employer seems to have sent you here purely to push this thrice polished turd, as if saying it enough will actually make people believe you.
Lets' break it down.
Does it give us back our own control on EU immigration? - No, nothing changes.
Does it free us from Eu rules and regulations? - No, nothing changes.
Does it give us back sovereignty of our own fishing waters? - No, nothing changes.
Does it free us from the jurisdiction of the ECJ? No, nothing changes.
Does it free us from the customs union? No, nothing changes.
Does it free us from the single market? No, nothing changes.
Does it allow us to organise our own trade deals? No, nothing changes. We would need to ask their express permision to negotiate and they would decide if it would affect them. If it did, which it would, they can refuse us permission.
Does it mean we don't have to keep funding the EU project? No, we have to pay £38BN up front and then they can force us to keep paying in after 2 years.
Does it mean that we can actually leave after the 2 years are up? No, during the 2 years we are supposed to work out our future relationship, aka actually leaving. If nothing can be agreed, the EU get to keep us in and funding them.
There are no legally binding rules to protect us from the EU keeping us in and milking us forever. They refuse to add this legally binding part and instead want us to rely purely on their good will not to do with us as they please. I mean, come on, get real?!
You're not seeing any of this are you, in your EU stooge role of splurging out lies and propaganda?
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| bhinso |
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bhinso
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| Posted: 16:15 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Just some of the pro-remain/deal arguments I've heard seem over-inflated.
Such as if we left with no deal, All UK food and industry would be dead.
Such as if we left with no deal, markets would crash, chaos and rioting on the streets, huge job losses and a recession 100 times worse than 2008.
Such as if we left with no deal on March 29th, the sun would not rise on March 30th.
Such as if we left with no deal, it's racist. Brexit IS racism.
To put the above into perspective, it's basically implying that the UK could not survive without Europe.
Imagine for a minute it is June 1940. Britain fights on alone. France has surrendered, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway over-run. Eire is staying out of it. The rest of Europe is occupied or staying neutral and hoping Hitler might leave them alone.
Crucially, the US and Russia are also neutral. All that stands between Mr H. and picking the rest off one by one is Britain and its declining commonwealth, plus brave men from places like Poland and the US joining the air force to fight for Democracy.
First we saw our airfields picked off, in support of an invasion. When that failed we saw our cities bombed to shit. But if anything it increased the morale of our citizens.
We were strong then, sacrificed a lot, but now we can't survive without the EU? Sorry, rant over  |
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bhinso
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| Posted: 16:28 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Really did go full Gammon there. When's the next diversity course?
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Riejufixing
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 41 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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