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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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 Posted: 17:20 - 20 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: | Eu bureaucrats don't give a shit about the good of its people, hence why unemployment is soo high and they crushed Greece , they care more about keeping the project together. |
No argument there. The issue is: what do?
| Rob Fzs wrote: | It does amuse me though, that the guy that slates the dvla for being useless, thinks the same civil service will be able to stop the eu taking the carpet from beneath us, the same civil service that is mostly ram packed full of remainers, worked it out yet? |
no m8 yews shortar wurds m8 mabi il getit.
| Rob Fzs wrote: | The best option is the option that gets us out of the Eu right away |
We are agreeing.
| Rob Fzs wrote: | all that is probably too much info though, long live Britannia etc etc |
yeh m8 rockon m8
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Itchy
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Posted: 17:42 - 20 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | I take it you've missed the US, Australia and Japan, amongst others, |
Wait we're delusional? Have you actually thought about what a free trade deal actually means?
| mpd72 wrote: | all creaming themselves over the prospect of finally being able to strike a quick, free trade deal with the UK, once were free of the constraints of the EU trading bloc, which still hasn't managed to do so in 20 plus effing years?  |
Er it's not 1840 any more.
Trade means goods and services moving in both directions.
Free Trade means that while you get to operate in the economy of another nation. They get to operate in yours too. So while they open up a vulnerability... you too must do so as well.
Australia learned the hard way with their US free trade deal. Exports to the US slowed down and diminished and they were worse off because of the free trade deal.
Just consider a few case studies.
New Zealand lamb. Today and now with 0% EU tariffs (but a quota) they can produce lamb cheaper than UK farmers. The quota is a form of protectionism. Drop the protectionism and your own lamb farmers go bust as they can't compete.
Or big pharmaceuticals. The UK has a fairly big industry worth 9bn and exporting $34bn. Cool great right? Except the US has an pharmaceuticals industry worth 450bn. Their R&D budgets are bigger than the entire industry in the UK. Now you think the US phama industry won't try and break into the market of the UK phama industries? US phama is extremely predatory what with TV adverts.
Or oil. US has considerably more lax environmental laws. They can produce at a lower cost.
Or engineering US has some great engineering too. Rolls Royce for example competes against General Electric + Pratt and Whitney, Boeing, General electric. All massive massive engineering companies. You think they won't try muscle into your market?
If you say well no you can't do that or want exemptions then it's not a free trade deal and it slows down the entire process. So like I said before you are far too optimistic. Unless you think the US will give you everything you want and their companies won't try muscle into your market.
Oh and before you say I'm being dumb this is ALREADY happening. ARM for example was simply bought up by softbank. Pfizer last year tried to take over Allergan. Pfizer also tried to buy out AstraZeneca this was in 2014.
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| Posted: 23:02 - 20 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: | I take it you've missed the US, Australia and Japan, amongst others, |
Wait we're delusional? Have you actually thought about what a free trade deal actually means?
| mpd72 wrote: | all creaming themselves over the prospect of finally being able to strike a quick, free trade deal with the UK, once were free of the constraints of the EU trading bloc, which still hasn't managed to do so in 20 plus effing years? |
Er it's not 1840 any more.
Trade means goods and services moving in both directions.
Free Trade means that while you get to operate in the economy of another nation. They get to operate in yours too. So while they open up a vulnerability... you too must do so as well.
Australia learned the hard way with their US free trade deal. Exports to the US slowed down and diminished and they were worse off because of the free trade deal.
Just consider a few case studies.
New Zealand lamb. Today and now with 0% EU tariffs (but a quota) they can produce lamb cheaper than UK farmers. The quota is a form of protectionism. Drop the protectionism and your own lamb farmers go bust as they can't compete.
Or big pharmaceuticals. The UK has a fairly big industry worth 9bn and exporting $34bn. Cool great right? Except the US has an pharmaceuticals industry worth 450bn. Their R&D budgets are bigger than the entire industry in the UK. Now you think the US phama industry won't try and break into the market of the UK phama industries? US phama is extremely predatory what with TV adverts.
Or oil. US has considerably more lax environmental laws. They can produce at a lower cost.
Or engineering US has some great engineering too. Rolls Royce for example competes against General Electric + Pratt and Whitney, Boeing, General electric. All massive massive engineering companies. You think they won't try muscle into your market?
If you say well no you can't do that or want exemptions then it's not a free trade deal and it slows down the entire process. So like I said before you are far too optimistic. Unless you think the US will give you everything you want and their companies won't try muscle into your market.
Oh and before you say I'm being dumb this is ALREADY happening. ARM for example was simply bought up by softbank. Pfizer last year tried to take over Allergan. Pfizer also tried to buy out AstraZeneca this was in 2014. |
You lost me attention around 2 lines in. Fact, not China China China please.
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Itchy
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| Posted: 23:05 - 20 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
You lost me attention around 2 lines in. Fact, not China China China please.
I have no response whatsoever to this therefore I am resorting to my usual snowflake weak tactic of ignoring questions that I can't answer |
Actually I'll change it to reflect your true self
| mpd72 wrote: | MURDER MURDER MURDER MURDER |
FTFY
I'll shorten it for you into three easy steps.
1 Trade is a two way process.
2 Free trade can just as easily harm your economy if they have equally good if not better companies.
3 Therefore your broken record like a trade deal with the USA will fix everything doesn't stand up to scrutiny other than pure fantasy and hope exactly the same thing you accuse anybody who disagrees with you.
| Quote: | The Australia–United States free trade agreement (AUSFTA) came into force, Australia and the United States have reduced their trade by US$53 billion with rest of the world and are worse off than they would have been without the agreement. |
| Quote: | The agreement was responsible for reducing — or diverting — $53.1 billion of trade with the rest of the world by 2012. |
| Quote: | Imports to Australia and the United States from the rest of the world fell by $37.5 billion and exports to the rest of the world from the two countries fell by $15.6 billion over eight years to 2012. |
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| Posted: 23:17 - 20 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: |
You lost me attention around 2 lines in. Fact, not China China China please.
I have no response whatsoever to this therefore I am resorting to my usual snowflake weak tactic of ignoring questions that I can't answer |
Actually I'll change it to reflect your true self
| mpd72 wrote: | MURDER MURDER MURDER MURDER |
FTFY
I'll shorten it for you into three easy steps.
1 Trade is a two way process.
2 Free trade can just as easily harm your economy if they have equally good if not better companies.
3 Therefore your free trade deal with the US will fix everything isn't a valid answer as seen by Australia US trade deal.
| Quote: | The Australia–United States free trade agreement (AUSFTA) came into force, Australia and the United States have reduced their trade by US$53 billion with rest of the world and are worse off than they would have been without the agreement. |
| Quote: | The agreement was responsible for reducing — or diverting — $53.1 billion of trade with the rest of the world by 2012. |
| Quote: | Imports to Australia and the United States from the rest of the world fell by $37.5 billion and exports to the rest of the world from the two countries fell by $15.6 billion over eight years to 2012. |
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Yep, as I thought.
You're too daft to understand that the EU is predominately a trading bloc to suit German manufacturing.
Carry on Ding Wah.
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| Posted: 23:35 - 20 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Keep it for your special thread, the grown ups are talking  |
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Itchy
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| Posted: 23:48 - 20 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Oh wow you're so predictable.
You still haven't answered my question and you're still deflecting.
I'll reiterate.
Why is a trade deal with the US going to be so great? As I mentioned the US has some extremely large industries and these industries will want to sell things.
Of course if you don't actually have an answer then you too are using blind faith and therefore you should stop citing it as how it's going to be great as you cannot back up your claims.
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Rogerborg
nimbA
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| Posted: 09:08 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: | Why is a trade deal with the US going to be so great? |
Because it doesn't necessarily have to be a free trade deal. It'll be the deal that we negotiate, not the one that Berlin forces on us.
I'll anticipate the "why would we get a better deal than Berlin?" question, and the answer is "to hack off Berlin".
If everyone acted entirely rationally we'd live in a world of perfect harmony, with apple trees and honey bees, and snow white turtle doves.
Absent that, human pettiness gets a look in and nobody likes the Hun and their Fourth Reich.
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| Posted: 10:15 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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We could just ignore the EU migration and border rules like other European countries currently are, without penalty...
Actually, we probably can't.
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| Posted: 10:17 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Italy's already poised to unleash the swarm by issuing EU travel visas and waving them on to Germoney, $weden and Treasure Island.
My question to those CBI moguls would be: why aren't you "transitioning" towards paying a living wage to UK staff now?
The answer of course being that they won't do it until they have no other choice, so this talk of a "period" is silly dissembling. Regardless of how gentle a slope they're offered, they'll choose to turn it into a cliff edge.
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Rob Fzs
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| Posted: 12:57 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: |
Oh wow you're so predictable.
You still haven't answered my question and you're still deflecting.
I'll reiterate.
Why is a trade deal with the US going to be so great? As I mentioned the US has some extremely large industries and these industries will want to sell things.
Of course if you don't actually have an answer then you too are using blind faith and therefore you should stop citing it as how it's going to be great as you cannot back up your claims. |
Deal with the US will be shit, we'll end up with all their gear tariff free and we'll be stuck with a load of quota's on our stuff going there killing any industry we have left , nevermind the massive gap in regulatory bureaucracy that will take years and years to matchup because no one factory is going to produce 2 product lines
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| Posted: 13:00 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | | Itchy wrote: | China China China |
So just to re-iterate. If we leave the EU single market we're fecked because free trade deals are needed to make our economy work.
But if we strike free trade deals, free of the constraints of the EU, with proper economies like the US and Japan, we're fecked because free trade deals are bad?
Mkay..... |
They're pretty shit, it's why China is always in dispite with the WTO, they're protectionist as fuck but will happily let tards like you, buy all their crap in, tariff free while they have tariffs and quota's on anything you sell to them , sounds like a crap deal for anyone that makes anything to sell, which is what you want more of?
And no i don't give a shit what you want to happen, this is what does happen, China have only just let the US sell them Rice, so what chance of we got with fuck all negotiating experience when the americans struggle to get their market over there
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Rob Fzs
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| Posted: 13:09 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | | Rob Fzs wrote: |
The eu has been negotiating trade deals for the last 20 years, |
Hang on, I think you're trying to be serious - I can't sniff sarcasm?!
Out of these trade deals, you know the completed ones, are there any decent sized economies?
Let's just post the complete list of completed EU ones for shits n giggles.
Akrotiri and Dhekelia
Albania
Algeria
Andorra
Bailiwick of Guernsey
Bailiwick of Jersey
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Chile
Egypt
EU's Overseas Countries and Territories
Faroe Islands
Georgia
Iceland
Isle of Man
Israel
Jordan
Kosovo
Lebanon
Liechtenstein
Mexico
Moldova
Monaco
Montenegro
Morocco
Norway
Palestinian Authority
Republic of Macedonia
San Marino
Serbia
South Africa
South Korea
Switzerland
Tunisia
Turkey
Ukraine
| Rob Fzs wrote: | we haven't negotiated a trade deal since the 1960's ,we don't have a single trade negotiator that is British, we've just borrowed one off New Zealand, if you think they won't pull the wool over our eyes, you're dreaming |
So we're not part of the EU too then? I'd say we've completed as many as Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal etc... You get the idea.
| Rob Fzs wrote: | Eff off option doesn't exist, the second the m25 becomes a lorry park because we're classed as a 3rd country, westminster will roll over and give in to all the Eu's demands, we don't have nigel fucking farage in power here, we've got a parliament that is 70/ 30 remainers and they will do whatever it takes to have the easy option, at least with the Norway option, we're out of the Eu rather than some stupid WTO option where the ECJ will be the one that does all trade disputes. |
I don't believe your doom and gloom. This is all in your head, it's pure fantasy. I'll leave it if that's OK by you?
I take it you've missed the US, Australia and Japan, amongst others, all creaming themselves over the prospect of finally being able to strike a quick, free trade deal with the UK, once were free of the constraints of the EU trading bloc, which still hasn't managed to do so in 20 plus effing years? |
You're thick as shit, they have numerous deals with all these big economies, mostly tarrif free up to a point to protect domestic industries, if you don't understand this, then you are too dumb to relise the damage unfettered free trade does.
People cant benefit from it when they have no job, because all the jobs have been taken by people who can build and make, the things they used to make abroad, because tarrifs have been removed. wake up.
Do tell me, why do you want tarrif free access to crap from these countries? how are you going to benefit, when the benefits bill from peoples lost jobs will no doubt put your tax bill up more ?
Do tell me how regulatory equivalence for all these different systems is going to be sorted 'quick'
Let me guess, you'll read that as saying it cant be done, it can, but not at a damaging stupid way of doing it such as you suggest, whats the rush? are you going to die soon or something?!?
Australia has fuck all people to buy our stuff anyway, so how are we going to benefit from that?
It's common sense really, when you get a bike tank painted, you can have it quick and cheap, but it will be shit wont it, the same goes for trade deals.
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Posted: 13:15 - 21 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: |
Deal with the US will be shit, we'll end up with all their gear tariff free and we'll be stuck with a load of quota's on our stuff going there killing any industry we have left , nevermind the massive gap in regulatory bureaucracy that will take years and years to matchup because no one factory is going to produce 2 product lines |
I'm getting deja vu...
Again, pure guesswork. Your entire opinion of our leaving the EU is pure fantasy isn't it?
Why don't you wait to see what happens and give it a chance, instead of dreaming of Armageddon, just to prove you were right to vote Remain?
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| Posted: 13:18 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: |
They're pretty shit, it's why China is always in dispite with the WTO, they're protectionist as fuck but will happily let tards like you, buy all their crap in, tariff free while they have tariffs and quota's on anything you sell to them , sounds like a crap deal for anyone that makes anything to sell, which is what you want more of?
And no i don't give a shit what you want to happen, this is what does happen, China have only just let the US sell them Rice, so what chance of we got with fuck all negotiating experience when the americans struggle to get their market over there |
Oh really? When did the EU negotiate a free trade deal with China China China? I must have blinked and missed it.
I don't suppose you have tonight's lottery numbers whilst your spelling out the future with such certainty?
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| Posted: 13:32 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: |
You're thick as shit, they have numerous deals with all these big economies, mostly tarrif free up to a point to protect domestic industries, if you don't understand this, then you are too dumb to relise the damage unfettered free trade does. |
Go for it, prove me as thick as shit by showing me one from a RoW top 5 economy.
| Rob Fzs wrote: | if you don't understand this, then you are too dumb to relise the damage unfettered free trade does. |
Ah, got you. So the EU free trade area is bad for us then?
| Rob Fzs wrote: | People cant benefit from it when they have no job, because all the jobs have been taken by people who can build and make, the things they used to make abroad, because tarrifs have been removed. wake up. |
Phew. It's lucky the manufacturing powerhouse of Europe and the worlds 4th largest economy doesn't have tariff free access to the UK then eh?
| Rob Fzs wrote: | Do tell me, why do you want tarrif free access to crap from these countries? how are you going to benefit, when the benefits bill from peoples lost jobs will no doubt put your tax bill up more ? |
I want trade deals which will benefit us, not Germany. It's not hard to grasp the concept. This may not include free trade deals, in fact Germany having to pay tariffs to the UK could be beneficial for us.
| Rob Fzs wrote: | Do tell me how regulatory equivalence for all these different systems is going to be sorted 'quick' |
Agreeing a trade deal between 2 countries is far simpler than between 28.
| Rob Fzs wrote: | Let me guess, you'll read that as saying it cant be done, it can, but not at a damaging stupid way of doing it such as you suggest, whats the rush? are you going to die soon or something?!?
Australia has fuck all people to buy our stuff anyway, so how are we going to benefit from that? |
Let's have a look at some of the economies smaller than Australia shall we? You might notice that the biggest free trade deals accomplished by the EU are to economies far smaller. You may also notice a lot of EU countries have smaller economies.
Spain
Mexico
Indonesia
Turkey
Netherlands
Switzerland
Saudi Arabia
Argentina
Taiwan
Sweden
Poland
Belgium
Thailand
Nigeria
Austria
Iran
United Arab Emirates
Norway
Egypt
Hong Kong
Israel
Denmark
Philippines
Singapore
Malaysia
South Africa
Ireland
Venezuela
Pakistan
Colombia
Chile
Finland
Bangladesh
Portugal
Vietnam
Peru
Greece
Czech Republic
Romania
New Zealand
Iraq
Algeria
Qatar
Kazakhstan
Hungary
Kuwait
Morocco
Puerto Rico
Ecuador
Angola
Sudan
Ukraine
Slovakia
Sri Lanka
Syria[n 4]
Ethiopia
Dominican Republic
Kenya
Guatemala
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Federated States of Micronesia
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| Rob Fzs wrote: | It's common sense really, when you get a bike tank painted, you can have it quick and cheap, but it will be shit wont it, the same goes for trade deals. |
If I want a bike tank painted, I take it to 1 person to do the job properly, not 28 who want to argue abut how the job should be done.
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TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Rob Fzs
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| Posted: 13:45 - 21 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rob Fzs wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: |
I'm getting deja vu...
Again, pure guesswork. Your entire opinion of our leaving the EU is pure fantasy isn't it?
Why don't you wait to see what happens and give it a chance, instead of dreaming of Armageddon, just to prove you were right to vote Remain? |
It's not guess work, this is reality, if you want to leave it to chance, then i needn't say more.... |
The future can not physically be reality as you claim, nor can it be predicted either way with any certainty as you also claim.
You have an opinion on what might happen, nothing more, nothing less, which is far from infallible. It's purely the views of a staunch remainer, desperately willing the shit to hit the fan, in order to give some credibility to your minority decision on the referendum.
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TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 278 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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