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Brexit: What do you think will happen?

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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:


You do know they're going to have to change the treaties when we leave right? so if it's a bum deal, as you say, they will adjust how they pay for their budget, and then what?

We're stuck with a shit deal, we cant trade easily with the Eu because we told them to eff off and no one else will want to make another deal with us because we look like a bunch of irrational dickheads.


This shows just how little you know about how the EU works. You like to think you do, but you really haven't got a clue. Treaty change is about the last thing the EU types want. These could even lead to referenda in member states on the treaty which could start an even worse chain for them.


Infact, Macron say's there should be treaty change to stop what you're suggesting Laughing

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/856873/brexit-news-latest-eu-pound-to-euro-jean-claude-juncker-emmanuel-macron-boris-johnson

fucking Eu expert are we?
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:
He doesn't understand how the Eu works like most of Westminster


Which is going to work in our favour, right? No wait....

Taking back control, giving it to people with no clue.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
He doesn't understand how the Eu works like most of Westminster


Which is going to work in our favour, right? No wait....

Taking back control, giving it to people with no clue.


Well they have to learn one day, no wonder the NHS, the schools, infrastructure is all a mess because we have politicians , that simply cant be arsed to do detail , they're going to have to and should be rightly ridiculed until they do get their ship in order.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
From whom is the EU going to borrow it?

It's all in the links provided

You've answered the question of from whom the EU has been able to borrow in the past.

I'm asking who will lend to the world's most moribund economy in the future, under the conditions that will exist then.

Aside: if the EU doesn't need our dollah dollah bills, why are they so adamant that we need to pay them?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:


I'm asking who will lend to the world's most moribund economy in the future, under the conditions that will exist then.

Aside: if the EU doesn't need our dollah dollah bills, why are they so adamant that we need to pay them?


You can borrow print QE as much money as you want from yourself! Until you can't

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Rogerborg wrote:
Aside: if the EU doesn't need our dollah dollah bills, why are they so adamant that we need to pay them?


It's a simple show of dominance and or contempt. Ever read the book American psycho? Patrick Bateman has a nasty trick where he waves a $100 bill under the noses of homeless before snatching it away. It's a similar idea.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:
no wonder the NHS, the schools, infrastructure is all a mess because we have politicians...


.. have their fingers in the pies that will benefit.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:
Well they have to learn one day, no wonder the NHS, the schools, infrastructure is all a mess because we have politicians ,



Um no, what a lot of people don't realise is that the UK is extremely corrupt just like everywhere else.

The prime difference is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance and denial meaning people simply don't accept it and think it could never happen here*

For instance the local towns have all been regenerated. One of them has had the high street tarmac lifted and replaced by bricks. It's being done by hand and the brother of the council boss just by coincidence got the contract. A brick laying pavement machine is $120,000. Yet the contract is worth £1bn tax payers money.

Another well documented example is Bexley council their CEO made a policy of child care bidding. By yet again complete coincidence the sister in law of the council CEO won the contract. Anybody who spoke up against it in council meetings was ejected and barred.


*money printing was also haha those stupid 3rd world people such a thing could never happen here mentality
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:48 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
Well they have to learn one day, no wonder the NHS, the schools, infrastructure is all a mess because we have politicians ,



Um no, what a lot of people don't realise is that the UK is extremely corrupt just like everywhere else.

The prime difference is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance and denial meaning people simply don't accept it and think it could never happen here*

*money printing was also haha those stupid 3rd world people such a thing could never happen here mentality

Oddly I think we're more corrupt, as all the corruption's in plain sight, they don't even need to bother covering it up as a) people don't seem to give a shit (see the paradise papers or morality threads), and b) WTF are 'we' going to do about it, stage a military coup?

I think most people think or hope one day it'll benefit them, but of course it never will. I agree about printing money, the ships going down but the bands still playing on (so we don't notice).
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 01:22 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Itchy wrote:



Um no, what a lot of people don't realise is that the UK is extremely corrupt just like everywhere else.

The prime difference is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance and denial meaning people simply don't accept it and think it could never happen here*

*money printing was also haha those stupid 3rd world people such a thing could never happen here mentality

Oddly I think we're more corrupt, as all the corruption's in plain sight, they don't even need to bother covering it up as a) people don't seem to give a shit (see the paradise papers or morality threads), and b) WTF are 'we' going to do about it, stage a military coup?

I think most people think or hope one day it'll benefit them, but of course it never will. I agree about printing money, the ships going down but the bands still playing on (so we don't notice).


Start buying into alternative forms of wealth then. Precious metals, cryptocurrency, etc.
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Val
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PostPosted: 01:57 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:

Um no, what a lot of people don't realise is that the UK is extremely corrupt just like everywhere else.

The prime difference is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance and denial meaning people simply don't accept it and think it could never happen here*

For instance the local towns have all been regenerated. One of them has had the high street tarmac lifted and replaced by bricks. It's being done by hand and the brother of the council boss just by coincidence got the contract. A brick laying pavement machine is $120,000. Yet the contract is worth £1bn tax payers money.



About of 500 meters from where I live they have changed a roundabout to a traffic light. They've managed to work on that exactly 6 months. Than I found out the council has spent £3 million.

For a foccing traffic light Rolling Eyes
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
Than I found out the council has spent £3 million.

For a foccing traffic light Rolling Eyes


Most of that was probably spent on the tea though.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

You've answered the question of from whom the EU has been able to borrow in the past.

I'm asking who will lend to the world's most moribund economy in the future, under the conditions that will exist then.

Aside: if the EU doesn't need our dollah dollah bills, why are they so adamant that we need to pay them?


Well who doesn't like free money? and it seems to me, they're going to get it
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
Well they have to learn one day, no wonder the NHS, the schools, infrastructure is all a mess because we have politicians ,



Um no, what a lot of people don't realise is that the UK is extremely corrupt just like everywhere else.

The prime difference is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance and denial meaning people simply don't accept it and think it could never happen here*

For instance the local towns have all been regenerated. One of them has had the high street tarmac lifted and replaced by bricks. It's being done by hand and the brother of the council boss just by coincidence got the contract. A brick laying pavement machine is $120,000. Yet the contract is worth £1bn tax payers money.

Another well documented example is Bexley council their CEO made a policy of child care bidding. By yet again complete coincidence the sister in law of the council CEO won the contract. Anybody who spoke up against it in council meetings was ejected and barred.


*money printing was also haha those stupid 3rd world people such a thing could never happen here mentality


Politicians in corruption shocker, the closer they are to home, the closer the scrutiny can begin
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Aside: if the EU doesn't need our dollah dollah bills, why are they so adamant that we need to pay them?

It's a simple show of dominance and or contempt.

Indeed, which is why we need to listen to the Moggster and not pay a pennycent of Brusselsgeld.

It's not like it'll make the slightest difference to the "deal" that they put on the table at a minute to midnight (CET) anyway.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/politics/tories-strip-right-equality-eu-withdrawal-bill/22/11/
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 01:21 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:


Politicians in corruption shocker, the closer they are to home, the closer the scrutiny can begin


I think you're being too optimistic as corruption happens yet when caught nothing ever seems to happen.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 02:27 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:


Politicians in corruption shocker, the closer they are to home, the closer the scrutiny can begin


I think you're being too optimistic as corruption happens yet when caught nothing ever seems to happen.

Vicky Pryce was on the BBC again the other day (something about Brexit/the economy), isn't she a convicted criminal Thinking
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/politics/tories-strip-right-equality-eu-withdrawal-bill/22/11/

Oh hai. I've taken the liberty of looking into the actual facts behind the headline from that shrieking libtard rag. I know it's not as much fun (for you) to debate from a position of information rather than ignorance, but let's give it a spin, shall we?


What was defeated was Amendment 46:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2017-11-21/debates/4BD8BD60-F424-4132-871D-D26E6E326DE9/EuropeanUnion(Withdrawal)Bill

"Amendment 46, page 3, line 20, leave out subsection (4) [of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill]."

Which in Corbyn's usual vague, cack handed manner refers to Section 5 of:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2017-2019/0005/18005.pdf

Which is in whole:

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill wrote:


5 Exceptions to savings and incorporation

(1) The principle of the supremacy of EU law does not apply to any enactment or rule of law passed or made on or after exit day.

(2) Accordingly, the principle of the supremacy of EU law continues to apply on or after exit day so far as relevant to the interpretation, disapplication or quashing of any enactment or rule of law passed or made before exit day.

(3) Subsection (1) does not prevent the principle of the supremacy of EU law from applying to a modification made on or after exit day of any enactment or rule of law passed or made before exit day if the application of the principle is consistent with the intention of the modification.

(4) The Charter of Fundamental Rights is not part of domestic law on or after exit day.

(5) Subsection (4) does not affect the retention in domestic law on or after exit day in accordance with this Act of any fundamental rights or principles which exist irrespective of the Charter (and references to the Charter in any case law are, so far as necessary for this purpose, to be read as if they were references to any corresponding retained fundamental rights or principles)


This clarified that, yes, we will still consider any EU laws that we'd applied prior to Brexit to still apply.

But no, we aren't going to adopt a wooly worded "charter" in its entirety as though it were well debated and phrased law.

However, we're fine with retaining our current statutory interpretation of it, and all rights that we've already granted based on it.

Problem?
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/politics/tories-strip-right-equality-eu-withdrawal-bill/22/11/


Think alot of this is to do with ECJ jurisdiction rather than the tories going full tory

only another 700 million laws that the same will happen to, but at least they're finally getting an airing in public
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/politics/tories-strip-right-equality-eu-withdrawal-bill/22/11/

Oh hai. I've taken the liberty of looking into the actual facts behind the headline from that shrieking libtard rag. I know it's not as much fun (for you) to debate from a position of information rather than ignorance, but let's give it a spin, shall we?


What was defeated was Amendment 46:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2017-11-21/debates/4BD8BD60-F424-4132-871D-D26E6E326DE9/EuropeanUnion(Withdrawal)Bill

"Amendment 46, page 3, line 20, leave out subsection (4) [of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill]."

Which in Corbyn's usual vague, cack handed manner refers to Section 5 of:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2017-2019/0005/18005.pdf

Which is in whole:

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill wrote:


5 Exceptions to savings and incorporation

(1) The principle of the supremacy of EU law does not apply to any enactment or rule of law passed or made on or after exit day.

(2) Accordingly, the principle of the supremacy of EU law continues to apply on or after exit day so far as relevant to the interpretation, disapplication or quashing of any enactment or rule of law passed or made before exit day.

(3) Subsection (1) does not prevent the principle of the supremacy of EU law from applying to a modification made on or after exit day of any enactment or rule of law passed or made before exit day if the application of the principle is consistent with the intention of the modification.

(4) The Charter of Fundamental Rights is not part of domestic law on or after exit day.

(5) Subsection (4) does not affect the retention in domestic law on or after exit day in accordance with this Act of any fundamental rights or principles which exist irrespective of the Charter (and references to the Charter in any case law are, so far as necessary for this purpose, to be read as if they were references to any corresponding retained fundamental rights or principles)


This clarified that, yes, we will still consider any EU laws that we'd applied prior to Brexit to still apply.

But no, we aren't going to adopt a wooly worded "charter" in its entirety as though it were well debated and phrased law.

However, we're fine with retaining our current statutory interpretation of it, and all rights that we've already granted based on it.

Problem?


Yes.

You missed the ridiculously wrong use of language in the article which completely discredits any germalist or the point they're trying to get across. Folded arms

Coarse indeed. Snigger.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
You missed the ridiculously wrong use of language in the article

I'd have to read it to miss it.

Urgh, Appeaser Theresa's delusions are getting embarrasing now. "Very positive atmosphere" she witters, while the EUrocrats just scowl and demand more dollah, and complete capitulation. Brick Wall
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 25 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
You missed the ridiculously wrong use of language in the article

I'd have to read it to miss it.

Urgh, Appeaser Theresa's delusions are getting embarrasing now. "Very positive atmosphere" she witters, while the EUrocrats just scowl and demand more dollah, and complete capitulation. Brick Wall


EEA/EFTA is going to look amazing by the time she's finished
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 25 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Every day it's getting harder to discount the theory that her goal is to deliver such a bad deal that the proles will demand to stay, or to get back in at any price (hellllo Euro).

Her incompetence literally beggars belief.
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kippyzona
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 28 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
50 billion quid.
The magic money tree is back.
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