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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 22:32 - 18 Jul 2018  Post subject: |
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Is that your answer? 
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Itchy
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Itchy
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 23:02 - 18 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: | BREXIT is supposed to make you all rich beyond your wildest dreams and all of humanity to grovel at your feet!!! |
Where do you get this stuff from? Honestly Itchy, you do come out with some nonsense sometimes. It just goes to show that you really don't understand the people who want out of the EU at all.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 23:09 - 18 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: | Is that your answer? |
Absolutely, in that you're citing a UK government controlled source. The UK government of course NEVER EVER EVER lies right? |
So you think that when the US and Britain claim China, whether government or military, is involved in industrial espionage, they are outright lying? Do you have evidence to that effect? Or is it because of Iraq, they must be lying? Surely you don't look at the world in such simplistic terms?
And do you think that the Chinese government NEVER EVER EVER (and boy, did it feel silly writing it like that ) lies?
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Itchy
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Itchy
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 00:12 - 19 Jul 2018  Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: |
It's simple people vote on ideology and principle. They are even willing to subject themselves to cognitive dissonance, facts? Consequences? Constraints? Reality DO NOT MATTER.
This is aptly summed up by an increase in the chocolate rations.
Or history
In 1949 the communists won the civil war. Many cheered the communists. A mere 20 years later the cheers were considerably muted as 120 million of them were dead. The fields of wheat were destroyed and the nation that had been the wealthiest and most powerful for 2000 years was suddenly poorer than Sub Saharan Africa.
The problem that ideology and principle do not defy reality and constraints set by reality. |
Yes, it is simple. People want Brexit so they can get back control of immigration, without having an outside source tell them who they must take in (Merkel has much to answer for here, but she was just the straw that broke the camel's back). Contrary to the hysterical claims of some press and Leave voters, it doesn't mean we're all racist. They want out of the EU because they believe that the EU will continue on to ever greater political union, ending in a superstate, the nature of which will have been largely formed by the powerhouses of Berlin in conjunction with Paris, which was not what they thought they signed up for originally. Because they don't like the direction that political union is going. Because they don't like the extra layer of bureaucracy in Brussels, which they feel makes decisions that affect their lives without them getting enough say in the matter. Because they don't want their government to be faceless and seemingly unaccountable to them. Because they already feel they have national government to ignore their wishes, why have the EU do the same?
And because they don't feel the EU is this great panacea that some seem to regard it as. They see it has problems of it's own, which they don't want compounding their own.
All your examples from history are well and good. It might even be useful to learn from some of it. but you're entirely missing the point. People just want their own country back. They don't think we'll be some kind of superpower, as you seem to think they do. They don't even particularly want that we should be. They just want half decent lives with a chance to make something of them. They still want to engage with the world, and they don't expect favourable treatment from it. They're happy to succeed or fail on their own merits, or lack of.
So now you have Brexit, or some half-hearted concoction that the government is turning it into. So what are you as a remainer going to do? It's here. It's not just those who voted to leave that will have to deal with it. So you can either tear it apart and whinge and whine, or you can try to make the best of it. Personally, I'm not a great deal of use these days, what with all my injuries and ailments, so I'm willing to make the best of things whatever we end up with. What are YOU going to do?
Oh no, I forgot, you don't feel you have any stake in this country in any case, do you. Well aren't you the one we should all listen to 
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 00:13 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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I gave your last post a "funny". I mean, what else could I give it?
Itchy, I'm sorry but you just over-complicate the matter. BCF isn't populated by politicians and corporate businessmen. It's mostly made up of people with far humbler outlooks. But they got given a vote, and the country's future is just as much theirs.
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panrider_uk
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 00:34 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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| panrider_uk wrote: | | Itchy wrote: |
Consider the space port.
The constraints are physics, cost and know how.
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Can you elaborate on this please? |
Oh, for crying out loud, don't encourage him! 
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Itchy
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Posted: 00:38 - 19 Jul 2018  Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | Yes, it is simple. People want Brexit so they can get back control of immigration, without having an outside source tell them who they must take in (Merkel has much to answer for here, but she was just the straw that broke the camel's back). Contrary to the hysterical claims of some press and Leave voters, it doesn't mean we're all racist.
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So what you're saying is you voted to leave the EU to control immigration from places like India, Pakistan and Africa which aren't in the EU...
GENIUS!!!
| chickenstrip wrote: | They want out of the EU because they believe that the EU will continue on to ever greater political union |
Yes and? Just because something is stated as a goal does not mean it is feasible and realistic or will actually happen.
Turkey for instance has wanted to join the EU for 30 or so years. They passed 2 of the 31 tests 3 years ago to join the EU. Today they pass 1 of those 31 tests meaning their joining won't happen.
| chickenstrip wrote: | People just want their own country back. |
See the Sovereignty post. UK sovereignty has NEVER been in doubt. So back from who?
| chickenstrip wrote: | They just want half decent lives with a chance to make something of them. |
So what exactly is stopping them from doing this now or ten years ago or 20 years ago?
| chickenstrip wrote: | They still want to engage with the world, and they don't expect favourable treatment from it. |
Funny how every proposal the UK government has made has been I want the perks but none of the responsibilities. Or hell that guy who was an illegal immigrant and encouraged others to work illegally. Yet at the same time wants his own nation to have strong immigration laws and is anti illegal immigrant.
| chickenstrip wrote: | They're happy to succeed or fail on their own merits, or lack of. |
Some do some do not.
Employers aren't charities they choose who is going to make the most money for them. If you're not this person then you can't they be stealing our jobs mentality.
I mean hell there was a woman on Newsbeat today who said jobs should be taken from Europeans in the UK and given to UK people. What if those UK people aren't qualified for it? What about the 20% functionally illiterate people? Who caused this situation?
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 00:44 - 19 Jul 2018  Post subject: |
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Do you attend a lot of parties? Do you find yourself stood alone at them?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 08:15 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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TBF, he turned up to the paintball we had a few years back.
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BTTD
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| Posted: 09:25 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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Everything leads to economic armaggedon, and there is no relevant measure other than money.  |
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panrider_uk
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 09:39 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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So, again: we're not preparing.
Do you genuinely not understand the difference between the real now, and the hypothetical future? 
We're clearly not leaving the EU, so we'll get free trade with your betters in Japan.
| chickenstrip wrote: | | Itchy wrote: | So when you STEAL it's OK but when others STEAL it's not OK? |
Well, not from just anyone, no. But it's only China we're talking about  |
I think the general principle is that it's OK if you're taking from anyone who could fairly be described as a "native". It's not like they're going to bestir themselves to invent anything useful with the local resources off their own backs, or they'd have done so already.
The history of China-China-China is essentially:
 Invent gunpowder 12,000 years ago and use it for fireworks.
Force the peasants to toil in the fields until they're 150, shelling rice and milking silkworms.
Force the peasants to toil in the factories until they're 150, making technology ripped off from Europeans or their superiors in Japan.
Economic colonialism.
I certainly admire the ruthless efficiency with which they're putting whole nations into debt by lending them the money to build infrastructure that they can't maintain or even complete.
Anyway, back on topic, terrorfear from dead tree publishers (gotta support your buggy whip industry), and Raab goes to Brussels for no good reason that I can see.
Surely they'll just pat him on the head and hand him some Tintins and a colouring book to keep him occupied.
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 10:40 - 19 Jul 2018  Post subject: |
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Itchy's problem is that he works everything out with mathematical precision, or tries to. But he completely fails to take into account the human aspect, which will always leave him wrong-footed. Itchy has no humanity. In that regard, he is exactly like the EU, and many politicians the world over, who rely on economic projections and models to guide their policies. Such models just don't work in the real world.
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panrider_uk
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| Posted: 11:06 - 19 Jul 2018 Post subject: |
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That's probably close enough ta 
It was his prediction of the price of a loaf that sticks in my mind
His predictions are so wrong he should advise Mark Carney
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 274 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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