Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Brexit: What do you think will happen?

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 212, 213, 214 ... 521, 522, 523  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

panrider_uk
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:52 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't happen of course but we can now pull Article 50, reissue it the next day and give ourselves another 2 years of time.
____________________
Current bike: Honda ST1100
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:59 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
M.C wrote:

Nothing racist about it, people are sick and tired of 'outsiders' dictating how things should be done. The more this grows, right now ethnic minorities are meant to be like sacred animals or something, the more intolerance grows. Anyone with a brain can see it's counterproductive.


I agree. It's quite frightening how stupid people in power can be. Surely they see this 'look at a person the wrong way' hate crime society is fuelling the ultra right.

It's like all these 'positive' discrimination jobs. More women. more blacks, more muslims etc. Personally I want the best person for the job whoever but that isn't acceptable, it has to be the best minority person for the job.

Keep shoving something down someone's throat and they might just swallow it but they are more likely to throw it up again afterwards.



There is a huge difference between:

"I dont like the current policy in my country, which seems to favour positive discrimination in hiring decisions"

and:

"I hate you because you're foreign.

One is a totally acceptable observation, the other is racism.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:01 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Of course it's workable, it just needs to be allowed to progress. Instead the government has wasted years talking about it without ever implementing anything to ease the coming situation, or to make the EU think they're serious. Thankfully some business' have made preparations, although some won't act until they have to. Changes have to be made, it's not going to be the same so get over it and get on with it.

What I interpret Itch is trying to express (correct me if I wrong Itchy) and I agree with which you and several others seem to just not comprehend is reality vs what you want. It might be tenable and workable and give all the pots of gold at the end of the rainbows if everyone got on board and all agreed to sail in the same direction but that is not reality.

Reality is - potentially half the country disagree, there is opposition. It has to be workable despite opposition or it falls flat.

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Corbyn's "opposition" has totally disregarded national interest and is solely focussed on a power grab. I find that unforgivable.

You assert that he is acting against national interest? Again, potentially if not more now, half the country would disagree, are you seeing this yet?

Your framing is interesting but I'll leave that there, I'll simply point out the only way to gain consensus is to persuade or remove the opposition, one involves a more democratic route another is a touch more authoritarian.

Welcome to at least a semblance of democracy.


Agree with Itchy and you in the main, apart from the fact that it's not half the country, as I pointed out in a previous post, its more like 14% who will be content with the outcome of Tuesdays decision, which is why you end up with a 52% leave vote and seemingly very strong opposition.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

Diggs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:45 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you that the whole thing has been a farce from start to finish. I also agree that UKIP will lose the 'ordinary bloke' vote because of its silly association with YL and his shady past (and future, no doubt...).

It will be interesting to see what Farage does now. If he is clever, his new party will campaign on a Brexit/anti-establishment ticket only because that is where the votes are right now.
____________________
Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:49 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
52% voted to leave the EU, as in "Leave", not a half in, half out, but still tied to the EU "deal", which is basically still being in the EU, with a couple of minor tweaks.

The whole event has been a farce. The establishment thought we'd be too scared to vote out and have spent the last 2 plus years, trying to find an excuse to wriggle out of it without causing a national outrage. It was fairly obvious from the offset when an avid remain supporter was put in charge of making a massive balls up of "Brexit means Brexit" pretending to leave.

People are so sick of the propaganda and bullshit now, that I doubt most would even bother to kick off.

This appears to be how politics in this "democratic country" works now.
A hardcore left wing minority seem to pull the strings over the democratic majority. At present the Tories are probably further left than Nu Labour were, with tax cuts and wage rises for the poor, whilst squeezing the middle earners.

There is a gaping hole in the political landscape in this country and I doubt UKIP will be the answer now they've picked up the shitty stick of media tainting for being linked to Robinson.

I suspect Farage will start a middle ground to right party as soon as Corbyn and May finish off sabotaging this Brexit attempt.


52% of those who turned out voted to leave, no details, just leave. You have no way of knowing if they wanted soft, hard or fried brexit, everyone had a different idea of what it meant to them, the only common thing was that it involed leaving in some way.

The turnout represents 72% of the registered voters

The registered voters are ~70% of the overall population

Those who voted leave are then divided between deal and no deal, we're yet to see how that one falls, but the number of hard brexit supporters is likely over 15% of the total population.

That doesnt change the referendum result, but it does explain why it feels like the opposition is extremely strong.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

diesel dog
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:57 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:
You have no way of knowing if they wanted soft, hard or fried brexit, everyone had a different idea of what it meant to them,


That's opinion and not fact.
____________________
MT10
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:04 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

diesel dog wrote:
B5234FT wrote:
You have no way of knowing if they wanted soft, hard or fried brexit, everyone had a different idea of what it meant to them,


That's opinion and not fact.


Is it? I've spoken to a number of leave voters, some of whom wanted to be out, regardless of the situation, just out. Others wanted to be out and were confident we could get a good deal, each had their own reasons for being out and concessions they did, or did not want to see made on a deal.

I cant give you precentages, no one can, but it is a fact that the number of leave supporters who wanted no deal brexit was not 52%, it was some number less than that, by at least as many people as I've personally spoken to who voted leave and dont support it.

TLDR, It's a fact that you don't know, no one does. It's also a fact that there was a range of opinions amongst leave voters, just like every other group of people ever.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

diesel dog
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:07 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the contents of your reply has just reinforced it is opinion and not fact.
____________________
MT10
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:17 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I agree with you that the whole thing has been a farce from start to finish. I also agree that UKIP will lose the 'ordinary bloke' vote because of its silly association with YL and his shady past (and future, no doubt...).

It will be interesting to see what Farage does now. If he is clever, his new party will campaign on a Brexit/anti-establishment ticket only because that is where the votes are right now.


They already lost it.

After Farage resigned as leader they shot themselves in the foot in so many ways it was untrue. Robinson was just the icing on the cake.

Despite what Abbott and co say, most people who voted brexit are reasonable middle of the road citizens who aren't far right, not racist and don't hold with the EDL or parties like that.

UKIP might as well disband now, they are seen as the 'nice' version of the EDL/BNP by too many people.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:38 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

diesel dog wrote:
Yes, the contents of your reply has just reinforced it is opinion and not fact.


And yet you're still unable to explain why.

mpd72 CPT wrote:


I disagree, "leave" means exactly that. Any "deal" is adding a partial leave scenario. That's not leaving, that's sort of leaving.

This deal appears to have been written by the EU, not by or for us. It is far from actually leaving the EU and leaves us tied to it indefinitely, after coughing up £39BN up front, just on the off chance they might talk to us about actually leaving at some stage in the future.

As for "48%" voted Remain. Tough, you lost, that's democracy for you. It was a simple yes/no answer. This deal is aimed more at keeping the 48%, plus May, Corbyn and the rest of the establishment happy, not the majority vote who want to leave.

We keep hearing this "most leave voters want a soft Brexit" bollocks from Remain supporters. The vast majority I hear want to leave the EU under WTO rules, rather than have a watered down Brexit in nothing but name type deal.


I'm not suggesting leave means there has to be a deal, of course it doesnt. I am suggesting there were a subset of leave voters who expected to have one and that's a fact, as I've met some.

I'm not suggesting the current deal is a good one, at all, I've never said anything of the sort.

I've not suggested that as 48% voted remain......anything.

I also never said "most leave voters". All I'm pointing out is that in any vote, but especially a close one, "the majority" is never in fact a majority of the country and therefore opposition is inevitable, even if those 52% are wholly united in what they want.


Last edited by B5234FT on 12:42 - 10 Dec 2018; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:45 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:


Er, because you're guessing and making up the figures to suit your agenda?

15% want a a proper Brexit. Yeah right...

Laughing


The only guess is the proportion of deal/no deal/this deal within leave voters.

52% of 72% of 70% is 27%, which is the maximum support accross the whole population for any form of brexit, and at least some of those expected a deal of some form when they placed their vote.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:02 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:

Is it? I've spoken to a number of leave voters, some of whom wanted to be out, regardless of the situation, just out. Others wanted to be out and were confident we could get a good deal, each had their own reasons for being out and concessions they did, or did not want to see made on a deal.


A deal is one thing, but if we are tied to any EU political and economic institutions which mean we have to follow their rules, we haven't left. We have left when it is up to our courts and institutions what we do, what rules and laws we make for our country, who we trade with etc. That's what leave means. Whatever deals we make with the EU don't come into it, or shouldn't.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:10 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


A deal is one thing, but if we are tied to any EU political and economic institutions which mean we have to follow their rules, we haven't left. We have left when it is up to our courts and institutions what we do, what rules and laws we make for our country, who we trade with etc. That's what leave means. Whatever deals we make with the EU don't come into it, or shouldn't.


Agreed, as I said above. I'm not arguing about what leave means to me, you or MPD, I'm simply stating that *some* (unknown quantity) of leave voters voted leave in the expectation of a deal, meaning that a leave voter is not necessarily a supporter of a no deal brexit.

We can argue the numbers (although its pointless as no one knows) but you cant argue they dont exist, or that their views are irrelevant
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:16 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:

Agreed, as I said above. I'm not arguing about what leave means to me, you or MPD, I'm simply stating that *some* (unknown quantity) of leave voters voted leave in the expectation of a deal, meaning that a leave voter is not necessarily a supporter of a no deal brexit.


What do Remainers want from the EU? Do they expect progression to a superstate? Do they expect Brussels to set social policy for all member states? Defence spending? Level of healthcare? Housing policy? What is the EU trying to achieve, what is its goal? Do all Remainers know all this and agree on on it all? Of course not. But it is nothing to do with the simple binary choice of leave or remain in the EU. Leave does indeed mean leave. No matter how it is done, it can only mean one thing.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

chickenstrip
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:22 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also puzzles me those politicians who say we must respect the EU referendum result, but we mustn't leave without a deal. Given the position of the EU, that means we can't leave. No deal IS the only leave option at this point.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Diggs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:39 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Statement from No.10 at 15.30 this 'aft apparently on whether tomorrow's vote will actually take place.....
____________________
Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:44 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theresa the Appeaser goes to Brussels

https://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/OliverTwist_09022016.jpg
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Diggs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:02 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Bumble gives his reply...
____________________
Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:13 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
B5234FT wrote:

Agreed, as I said above. I'm not arguing about what leave means to me, you or MPD, I'm simply stating that *some* (unknown quantity) of leave voters voted leave in the expectation of a deal, meaning that a leave voter is not necessarily a supporter of a no deal brexit.


What do Remainers want from the EU? Do they expect progression to a superstate? Do they expect Brussels to set social policy for all member states? Defence spending? Level of healthcare? Housing policy? What is the EU trying to achieve, what is its goal? Do all Remainers know all this and agree on on it all? Of course not. But it is nothing to do with the simple binary choice of leave or remain in the EU. Leave does indeed mean leave. No matter how it is done, it can only mean one thing.


100% definitely not, but that doesnt matter as they didnt win. Had they done so, a good number would have been unhappy with the eventual outcome in precisely the same way.

Also agree, as I've said many times.

All I've pointed out is the reason the opposition feels so strong is because in any debate, whatever your position, the vast majority of the country dont agree with you, so while it's easy to say "52% of people do" that's ignoring the basic mechanics of it and the inescapable fact that it's 25% or less of the actual human beings in the UK you could discuss it with.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
- This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

B5234FT
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:21 - 10 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm out. It's like you're replying to an entirely different post Laughing

Which part of that was about proportional representation, or not leaving? Wink
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 5 years, 109 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 212, 213, 214 ... 521, 522, 523  Next
Page 213 of 523

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.20 Sec - Server Load: 0.37 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 152.78 Kb