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Brexit: What do you think will happen?

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Kawasaki Jimbo
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:
Well, Mogg's beginning to come around to "the deal", which is a help.


Interesting. Source?
How come our awful Home Office Minister didn't have to stand up and
perform the U-turn over fees?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
This thing about what the Lisbon treaty says is fundamentally wrong , it's been debunked numerous times and if you're gonna make a argument for leave, actually use official documents, rather than horseshit concocted by Leave means Leave and the other knuckle dragging hard brexit groups


Actually, we don't have to make an argument for leave. In case you didn't notice a majority have already voted for it.

We should leave, end of.


It is calm and tranquil to think of it being as simple as that.

But we mibby need to deal with the bastirts later to sell (whatever it is we still manufacture)

We cannot trust The US of Arseholes with Trump on his Nationalisation agenda and the Chinese/Indians have most of everything else covered.

Or is that I do not know what the hell I am talking about same as every other party in this 'deal'?

My theory was to complain to the EU and complain to the EU, and complain to the EU until they ejected us.

We would be in the same boat as we are now. But probably get out free and not have to pay any dues.
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Riejufixing
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Joined: 24 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
Well, Mogg's beginning to come around to "the deal", which is a help.

Interesting. Source?


Rather a backhanded statement, but nonetheless a statement of some sort:

"Writing in the Mail on Sunday Mr Rees-Mogg added: “If I had to choose between no deal and Mrs May’s original accord, I would have no hesitation of opting for a no-deal Brexit but even Mrs May’s deal would be better than not leaving at all.”"

Getting blood out of a stone. Bless!
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cdlxxvi
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Joined: 13 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
Remain is a status quo, with revolutionary changes being very hypothetical, with more than even chance of minor, evolutionary steps (based on evidence over decades of experience so far).

Deliberate, incremental change is what brought us to Brexit.

The EU is gradually moving away from unanimity to qualified majority voting (QMV)*, so nations (sorry, "states") could be outvoted and obliged to accept policies they don't like. Westminster uses QMV of course, but there's a difference between applying a single set of rules to a nation compared to a whole continent of diverse economies and cultures. I don't think it can work, and it's already created a resistance movement usually labelled nationalist, populist, right-wing, which threatens peace. The EU did this.

*Junker's last "state of the union' speech went further and called for QMV in taxation and foreign affairs. He also urged increased cooperation in defence.


As EU grows in size and worldwide importance, its governance must be streamlined; as you correctly observed, even in as small country as UK a whim of some Nowhereshire cannot obstruct the whole union. EU didn't "do" anything out of ordinary; the devil here is in portraying that normal process as something evil; a pathetic excuse for Brexit, but alas, it could be spun enough to trick the voters.

Riejufixing wrote:
Mrs May's said again that a "no-deal" must remain a possibility; that Article 50 won't be extended; the referendum result must be respected, we will leave; the Good Friday Agreement will not be reopened; workers' rights won't be eroded; EU people can stay, without paying application fees; and that there won't be a hard UK/Ireland border. So that's all good, too.


So we will have cake and eat it, and not get fat in the result, and it will end with us having more cakes than before we ate one, and it will be full of honey and almonds which will taste of port and lemon.
And if EU won't make us such cake, we will stab ourselves in the stomach on their new sofa, which they cannot accept because they will not want to clean the sofa.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
Mrs May's said again that a "no-deal" must remain a possibility; that Article 50 won't be extended; the referendum result must be respected, we will leave; the Good Friday Agreement will not be reopened; workers' rights won't be eroded; EU people can stay, without paying application fees; and that there won't be a hard UK/Ireland border. So that's all good, too.


So we will have cake and eat it, and not get fat in the result, and it will end with us having more cakes than before we ate one, and it will be full of honey and almonds which will taste of port and lemon.
And if EU won't make us such cake, we will stab ourselves in the stomach on their new sofa, which they cannot accept because they will not want to clean the sofa.


Yoiu what? What have you been drinking!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:

So we will have cake and eat it, and not get fat in the result, and it will end with us having more cakes than before we ate one, and it will be full of honey and almonds which will taste of port and lemon.


Fuck me, I do believe he's grasped it at last! Laughing

Cake - it's what Brexit is really about Cool
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Sload
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Joined: 28 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
So we will have cake and eat it, and not get fat in the result, and it will end with us having more cakes than before we ate one, and it will be full of honey and almonds which will taste of port and lemon.
And if EU won't make us such cake, we will stab ourselves in the stomach on their new sofa, which they cannot accept because they will not want to clean the sofa.

Exactly Thumbs Up
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
As EU grows in size and worldwide importance, its governance must be streamlined.

Spoken like a true EUpean. As said, I find that a worrying prospect.
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cdlxxvi
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Joined: 13 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
As EU grows in size and worldwide importance, its governance must be streamlined.

Spoken like a true EUpean. As said, I find that a worrying prospect.


Why would it worry you? Do you worry about sharing a government with London, or with Northern Ireland?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Eh? Why has there been devolution with Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland then? People don't want a central government that doesn't understand or care about them.
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Riejufixing
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Joined: 24 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
stand up and perform the U-turn


U-turn, U-turn, did someone say "U-turn"?

https://www.dominicgrieve.org.uk/news/dominic-grieves-election-message-constituents

Can you splee "Hypocritical bastard"?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
Why would it worry you? Do you worry about sharing a government with London, or with Northern Ireland?

No because (The City aside) the regions of the UK are not that different. Trying to destroy diversity by imposing common rules on the four points of the European compass isn't something I welcome, and it doesn't work economically.
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cdlxxvi
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Joined: 13 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
Why would it worry you? Do you worry about sharing a government with London, or with Northern Ireland?

No because (The City aside) the regions of the UK are not that different. Trying to destroy diversity by imposing common rules on the four points of the European compass isn't something I welcome, and it doesn't work economically.


I'd say that there are more differences between Belgravia and Belfast than between Spain and Sweden?

Loss of diversity is a byproduct of technology that eases communication, not a political agenda. It's not EU that imposed that authentic Sicilian cuisine on a Lancashire market town.

As for economy, I'd argue that a degree of legal unification facilitates business.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 23:51 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Eh? Why has there been devolution with Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland then? People don't want a central government that doesn't understand or care about them.


Local and central government aren't mutually exclusive, and I believe no one argues they should be.
My point is that given our common economic and interests, shared political agenda, and similar cultural background, we should adopt unified governance at EU level to streamline our cooperation, not unlike England and Scotland did not that long ago.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
As for economy, I'd argue that a degree of legal unification facilitates business.

What do you think about a common currency or harmonised taxation?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
As for economy, I'd argue that a degree of legal unification facilitates business.

What do you think about a common currency or harmonised taxation?


I don't know how harmonised the taxation is as I've never really cared, but I know that the Dutch VAT is more than ours, Germany is less than ours, Ireland is more, and the Swiss are paying less than everyone else!

Doesn't seem harmonised in the true sense of the word.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
M.C wrote:
Eh? Why has there been devolution with Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland then? People don't want a central government that doesn't understand or care about them.


Local and central government aren't mutually exclusive, and I believe no one argues they should be.
My point is that given our common economic and interests, shared political agenda, and similar cultural background, we should adopt unified governance at EU level to streamline our cooperation, not unlike England and Scotland did not that long ago.

You'll notice people on the whole disagree with that, hence Brexit, hence the Catalan independence movement.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:37 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
I don't know how harmonised the taxation is as I've never really cared, but I know that the Dutch VAT is more than ours, Germany is less than ours, Ireland is more, and the Swiss are paying less than everyone else!

Doesn't seem harmonised in the true sense of the word.

It isn't harmonised yet, but it's been proposed. A vote for Remain because the status quo seems acceptable ignores the fact that this is our last chance to act unilaterally before the 27 states move towards ever closer union, some unwillingly due to QMV.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
As for economy, I'd argue that a degree of legal unification facilitates business.

What do you think about a common currency or harmonised taxation?


Common currency is a global power 101. Imagine running a big business in USA, China, or India, and dealing with 10 local currencies each of these countries. Ridiculous idea, right?

I know little about taxes, so please don't value my opinion too much, but I think that we've seen state-level taxes being used to poach business from fellow EU countries rather than compete globally, so I can see at least some merits in harmonising them.
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