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Road registered electric pit bike with claimed 90m range

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G
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Road registered electric pit bike with claimed 90m range Reply with quote

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262756007226

In some cases specs listed are questionable or contradictory.

Made of various cheap electric push bike bits that I recognise.

Only 1.6kw/40mph.

However, I do like that it's reasonably priced and seems to be be 'right' for an electric bike - compact, enough range and speed to be used around a city etc.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has hydraulic disk break.

The advert implies the bike is not assembled when it arrives unless you pay extra.
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G
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

The advert implies the bike is not assembled when it arrives unless you pay extra.

That is - no joke - the 'VIP' package.
Because only important people would expect their bike actually ready to ride.

Also note it specifies no chain, as you'd expect for a hub motor.
Yet has "Engine Rear Sprocket : 15/41T - 420 Chain".
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh noes, KIT of PARTES!!! Might just need a wheel put on.

Claims 90 miles, or 120km (75miles).

At full power, and using every drop of the battery's claimed energy, you're looking at 1.58 hours of runtime. Realistically, 1.5. Really realistically, maybe an hour. Maybe, but I wouldn't go out without breakdown cover that specifically includes motorcycles and electric vehicles.

40mph from 1.6kW seems wildly optimistic (as well as making it a motorcycle rather than a moped). A Honda Vision 50 claims 28mph ("design speed") from 2.5kW. Granted, that's 1.6kW at the rear wheel versus 2.5kW at the crank.

Absolute best case, I make that ~60 miles, not the claimed 90 or even 75.

Still easily good enough for commutes on the flat, if true. But... 40 mph from 1.6kW? I'm thinking not. Hills, you might as well get off and push.

Register it quickly, because if it doesn't have Euro 4 certification (linked brakes, always on lights, OBD, anti-tamper) DVLA should say no as of January 1st.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 11:20 - 12 Dec 2016; edited 1 time in total
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G
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

No stats listed for battery chemistry or amp hours unfortunately.
At that price I expect some golf cart batteries or similar.
However, for around £100 you can a 20ah 18v battery I reckon (5 cell - I know it's a little over that for a 6 cell.)

40mph from 1.6kw seems not too un-realistic to me - a 1kw hub motor will edge me to 30mph on an electric push bike with off road tyres and this is quite likely more aerodynamic with tyres offering less resistance.

Hills mine does suffer; this should do a bit better as the motor can spin faster due to smaller diameter wheel and more volts. (I'm presuming it's direct drive not geared.)
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It claims 72V and 35AH. 72V @ 1.6kW I make to be 22.22A or 1.58 hours at full power all things being ideal (which I doubt they will be).

Like all electric bikes, I'd want to read a trusted owner review over many kilo-miles and battery cycles before spending north of £1200 on one (with delivery and registration).

Insurance should be a right laugh.
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G
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, missed the 35AH.
Can't see that being anything but lead acid at the price then.
Presuming that's their total capacity, you should only discharge lead acid to 50% for an even semi-reasonable life.
Lithium is more like 80% for a bit longer life - that's Li-ion and Li-Po; the lifepo4 chemistry lasts significantly longer. £360 for a 40ah 24v lifepo4 battery pack from China (then any fees you may get on top).

I have kept an eye out for 12" or similar hub motors - ideally a bit more power than these.

Could quite likely get a second motor (and controller) to replace the front - 3.2kw should then hit 40mph consistently and have the benefit of 2 wheel drive for questionable conditions.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Roger regarding independent reviews. You can bet '90Mile range' is an eight stone Chinaman gingerly trundling around a zero gradient test track on a still day.
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G
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an idea of comparison, with a bit tired 13AH 44v or so total capacity li-po batteries on 1kw with full power used a lot of the time and some hills, 10 miles or so is about the limit. About 450Wh usable capacity

So if that's 35AH total capacity in lead acid, that's about 1260WH.
So should still be pretty reasonable for an in-town commute each way, but well short of the claims.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be interested in something like this as a London commuter hack If I thought I could believe the claims about range and get a realistic idea of battery life and therefore the whole real cost of running the machine for X years.

In general how much of a hole in the range does having the headlight on make to a leccy bike?
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G
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be easy to work out - 35w headlight and 5w tail light say, gives a 2.5% reduction in full power range of the bike.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd hope it'd be LED all round.

At some point I will have an electric bike, but it won't be this one.
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G
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't see it having a road legal LED headlight when you've got budget components at a budget price. May have an incandescent light with the same power as an LED headlight however Smile.

It wouldn't be my choice, but I think it's definitely getting towards the right way and could be a good choice for many in London etc.

The hub could be interesting for making a hybrid MSX, pit bike or similar - slot it in, add a controller and smallish lithium battery and you've got the option of either and the capability to sustain town speeds on electric alone.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electric start - handy on an electric bike Very Happy
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G
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you could wire one of these up to the power switch if you wanted an alternative..
https://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/an-electric-kickstarter-is-what-the-world-deserves-1702105561

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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's no (king of the slow stop start city slog) GSXR1000 is it?

But I can see why some would like it, but it's not for me at all.

If I were commuting in London, I'd want the option to pedal as well, and let's face it the brakes and suspension on modern quality MTB's is easily good enough for a 2hp motor and 40mph. I'd want the option to pedal assist, either to aid acceleration, burn off the beer when it's flat, and to get me home away from the gangsta feral hoodies when the batteries suddenly go flat.

I think the price is ok though, seeing as you can't get a really good spec and quality electric MTB/city bike for much less than double the price of these things.

Nice to see a new vehicle with less than 180bhp that G almost endorses though! Wink
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G
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 1.6kw, I'd say you're getting to the point pedalling is a bit redundant - in reality you'll probably find you don't really pedal.
You could just as well fit pedals to a motorcycle so you can spin your feet.

Given the choice (and working shoulders/wrists/etc) I'd be endorsing a KTM200XC for fun Smile.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cleavage in the final pic' has sold it for me. What does it weigh? Being low down and silent's a recipe for almost certain death, it better stop quickly.
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G
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Re: Road registered electric pit bike with claimed 90m range Reply with quote

35ah battery around 11kg. So 66kg of battery.
Judging by said cleavage pic, they're not that lot really - as with bigger pit bikes, the height is often similar to 'normal' bikes, but the rest more compact. (You can register the bigger pit bikes as an enduro bike with big wheels and maybe a bit extra on the seat.)
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Snowdonia Rider
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been watching that sellers Monkey Bike's for a while, trying to decide whether I want one or not. They used to advertise that they provide full support and backup through out the DVLA registration process but they've deleted that part from their adverts now since having a negative feedback saying bike could not be registered. Dunno why I have such a strong itch to get a Monkey Bike anyway Thinking
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also got in touch with them about their "street legal" knobbly-bikes earlier this year.

They were all assurances, but when pressed to confirm that they have low evaporation fuel systems and always-on lights (which have been mandatory on all bikes since the start of 2016, at least de jure), and the certification to show it, they suddenly clammed up.

Apparently they don't welcome "ANY" questions. Whistle
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be a weirdo, but give me a top spec hardtail city bike or MTB, with say a 500w motor some trick battery's that allow 25mph, and a non pedal assisted (worst case) range of 25miles. That's enough for me if it was a light agile aluminium bike, with a spunky trick spec. You could take it on the train, or up to your 10 th floor London office too.

For a pit bike, I'd lust over a Kawasaki KSR 80 or 110, with a trick Japanese titanium pipe, and some bling bits fitted. But I can't see you being able to take a nice crisp smokey 2smoke pit bike into your work building or office.

Oh and Id actually pedal a 50quid cheap bike to work every day, if it meant I could hoon on a 200cc KTM motard on my days off, so again I'm agreeing with G. Shocked Laughing
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G
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

500w won't do 25mph with a direct drive from my experience. Might with a gear hub motor and probably would with a mid drive - but seems a bit of a waste having a mid drive on a hardtail.
When you're talking 500w, battery won't affect speed really - most should be able to easily provide that.

Weight of the bike won't make a massive difference overall, as it's a lot less of a percentage with all the electric stuff added on.

If you wanted something to take into an office, a folding electric push bike probably better.


Handling and grip, I reckon the pit bike will do a load better. (Well, a decently set up one, this may well be terrible of course.)
Though I haven't ridden a fat-tyred push bike with road tyres at speed.


Oh and note that the KSR110 is a 4 stroke - 80 the 2 stroke.

However, point with this is that the major cost will be the replacement batteries probably. Being a hub drive it should be very low maintenance.
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SuperMike
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 17 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

An old friend of mine brought a 1000w rear wheel for his mountain bike from alibaba. Pretty easy to fit - battery sat on a pannier rack on the back. Great fun. I think that 40mph from 1.6kw is very achievable. On full juice this thing would take me up hill at 30mph no problems. Range was only about 25 miles on full beans however, though if you are just commuting to work and back daily then that is plenty if you have a charger in the office.

Very illegal, but I guess unless you undertake plod at 30mph up a hill reading the financial times then you are unlikely to get busted?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 17 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperMike wrote:
An old friend of mine brought a 1000w rear wheel for his mountain bike from alibaba. Pretty easy to fit - battery sat on a pannier rack on the back. Great fun. I think that 40mph from 1.6kw is very achievable. On full juice this thing would take me up hill at 30mph no problems. Range was only about 25 miles on full beans however, though if you are just commuting to work and back daily then that is plenty if you have a charger in the office.

Very illegal, but I guess unless you undertake plod at 30mph up a hill reading the financial times then you are unlikely to get busted?

I can't find a link to the actual story (apparently it was in a magazine), but apparently someone on an illegal electric bike got into an accident with a bus, who were refusing responsibility because the bike shouldn't have been used on the road.

I think it would be a sensible risk if you didn't have a license, if I was a full on cycle warrior I probably would do something similar. The furthest I'd take it with a license to (potentially risk) is something like this: https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/how-to-de-restrict-a-bosch-electric-bike/ At least then your bike looks legal, and says it's going a legal speed even if it isn't Smile
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