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Accident During CBT

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Spiltink
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Joined: 13 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Accident During CBT Reply with quote

Hi guys,

So I did my CBT on Sunday, in the early part of the day I came off the bike. I carried on until the end but my foot was getting more and more painful. Went to the hospital on Monday and my foot is broken in several places. I work in construction, so obviously I can't work now, which means no wages for at least six weeks. Should the company I did the CBT with have insurance to cover this sort of thing? They were nice guys, but six weeks wages is a lot of money for me and a drop in the ocean for insurance companies...

All advice gratefully accepted.

Kev
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arry
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Re: Accident During CBT Reply with quote

Spiltink wrote:
Should the company I did the CBT with have insurance to cover this sort of thing?


They will have a public liability policy and a road traffic act policy. Neither of them will respond to you unless the school are legally liable to you in tort (negligence) or breach of statutory duty.

If there's allegations of negligence then you've some chance of an award, but it wouldn't be next week you'd be getting any kind of payout. More like next year. Or possibly the year after.

If there's no allegation of negligence and you've dropped the bike yourself whilst undertaking an inherently risky activity - then it's all on you, and you're getting (quite rightly) nothing.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 13:51 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened?
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doggone
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fell Off.
I would've thought you probably sign something when you start absolving them unless you were practically forced to ride a known dangerous/faulty bike.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
I would've thought you probably sign something when you start absolving them

Can't be used to avoid liability for personal injury.

OP, what did they do that caused you to fall off the bike?

Biking is dangerous. If you can't afford to take time off work, and you don't have your own income protection insurance, then why did you get on one?

https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay/overview

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose no other vehicle was involved, and no pedestrian interfered to cause the crash, correct? That you handled the bike's controls indelicately and this caused you to crash? That you weren't riding pillion but it was just you and you alone, crashing a roadworthy and mechanically sound bike without any outside influence?

Motorbike riding entails risks. Unless you can show that the school is directly at fault, you will get nothing out of them or their insurance. Chances are high that they weren't at fault, and that you were the author of your own misfortune on this occasion.

To put it bluntly, you are not entitled to no-fault compensation just for being under the supervision of an instructor while you crash a bike. Sorry about your accident but you'll have to wait this one out and take the hit to your pocket. Try to avoid souring the relationship between you and the school by slinging blame around, because you may be back there one day to try again.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also helpful: https://dailymailsadface.tumblr.com/
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Re: Accident During CBT Reply with quote

Spiltink wrote:
a drop in the ocean for insurance companies..

Unfortunately their ocean is make up of millions of such 'drops'. You'd have to demonstrate negligence on the part of the training company. Good luck with that.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

So wait a second, just to get this in my head.

You cane off a motorcycle during a training day and you want to blame the school you went with and think they should pay your wages for the next 6 weeks because you cannot work?

As Roger said, Biking is dangerous, If you cannot handle or cope with the risk of personal injury then perhaps you should not partake in said activity. Just a heads up, statistically you are more likely to die riding a motorcycle than driving a car.

I'm sure you signed a disclaimer saying that the school accepts no responsibility for injury as it is standard procedure.

This is normally the point where I would tell you to go fuck yourself but I've had enough coffee today so I Wont.

Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
think they should pay your wages for the next 6 weeks

No, not them, their insurers. It's free money, nobody loses. Rolling Eyes


pinkyfloyd wrote:
statistically you are more likely to die riding a motorcycle than driving a car.

Climbing up a ladder down the pub on Friday night.


pinkyfloyd wrote:
I'm sure you signed a disclaimer saying that the school accepts no responsibility for injury as it is standard procedure.

I feel compelled to to repeat that such a disclaimer or waiver is expressly voided by statute, either Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 S2 or Consumer Rights Act 2015 S65.

If there's no negligence, there's no need for a waiver. If there is negligence, then it cannot be avoided by a waiver.

Sorry to Tef on, this has been a bugbear of mine for many years.
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155mph
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what you may (or may not) have signed up to is their terms and conditions, i.e. contract between you and the school.

It would say stuff like obviously, riding a motorcycle or scooter (includes moped) carries some risk to the rider and that you understand these risks and agree to undergo training at their own free will.

It would go on to say you must realistically accept that there is a possibility that an accident may occur that causes loss, damage, expense or personal injury and unless shown to be negligent, your instructor and/or the school is not liable to you for any expenses, loss, damage or personal injury as a result of any accident that may occur.

Should you sustains injury during training, training will be stopped and medical attention will be sought if needed. The school recommends that medical attention is sought in all cases and that injury is checked by a medical practitioner. However, if the student is happy to continue the training it will be at their own discretion.

Sorry about your accident though.


Last edited by 155mph on 17:11 - 13 Dec 2016; edited 1 time in total
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rog, My last line still stands up to scrutiny though?

Good I'll stand by that.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:
I suppose no other vehicle was involved, and no pedestrian interfered to cause the crash, correct? That you handled the bike's controls indelicately and this caused you to crash? That you weren't riding pillion but it was just you and you alone, crashing a roadworthy and mechanically sound bike without any outside influence?

Early part of the day suggests whilst still in the yard. I remember my CBT was on a very ropey bike, and in a school yard half covered in wet leaves, which the instructor seemed to like sending me through. Just saying not all training schools are professional or responsible.
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Aceslock
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
So wait a second, just to get this in my head.

You cane off a motorcycle during a training day and you want to blame the school you went with and think they should pay your wages for the next 6 weeks because you cannot work?

This is normally the point where I would tell you to go fuck yourself but I've had enough coffee today so I Wont.

Rolling Eyes


I am sure OP is not trying to put any blame on the school. As he said they were nice guys, and is just after some friendly advice to see if he has any chance of claiming for loss of work. I believe this is what forums are for....... asking genuine questions. No need for the attitude
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aceslock wrote:
pinkyfloyd wrote:
So wait a second, just to get this in my head.

You cane off a motorcycle during a training day and you want to blame the school you went with and think they should pay your wages for the next 6 weeks because you cannot work?

This is normally the point where I would tell you to go fuck yourself but I've had enough coffee today so I Wont.

Rolling Eyes


I am sure OP is not trying to put any blame on the school. As he said they were nice guys, and is just after some friendly advice to see if he has any chance of claiming for loss of work. I believe this is what forums are for....... asking genuine questions. No need for the attitude


Thats why I added normally the point.

It's the fkin Americanisation of the UK. Someone is always to blame. Been hurt in an accident that was or was not your fault? Dont worry, we'll get you a shitload of money and wangle the system to blame someone else.

It's pathetic
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to know how you pancaked your foot that badly from a presumably low speed drop on a light weight 125 or lower.

I've dropped my 650 on my foot wearing flip flops with nothing more than a bruise.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 17:53 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play nicely people, we can't lambast him until he's told us what happened.
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Aceslock
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:

It's the fkin Americanisation of the UK. Someone is always to blame. Been hurt in an accident that was or was not your fault? Dont worry, we'll get you a shitload of money and wangle the system to blame someone else.

It's pathetic


He was just asking if the insurance policy covers it. This is the reason we pay insurance........to cover 'accidents', not necessarily blaming someone for it.

I knew he wasnt entitled to anything, and others did too who pointed out this fact without the attitude, thats all i'm saying. Thumbs Up
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 13 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Play nicely people, we can't lambast him until he's told us what happened.


Well it's not the answer he wanted so he's made another account and will ask the same question next week.

I expect.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Rog, My last line still stands up to scrutiny though?

Good I'll stand by that.

Oh, sure, I'm just having an attack of niceness (I probably have a mild dose of the AIDS) so I don't want to spell it out to OP, but... sure.
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arry
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aceslock wrote:

He was just asking if the insurance policy covers it. This is the reason we pay insurance........to cover 'accidents', not necessarily blaming someone for it.


First part yes - accidents. Second part is critical though. It is all about blame - from a purely legal standpoint. You buy a legal liability policy - not a 'well I think I owe him something for his hardship' policy.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 01:54 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty certain I've seen the same question asked a few times on here (OK at least once).
The one important thing the OP has missed out is 'What was the cause of the incident that caused the injury'. Without knowing that then it's impossible to know if he/she has any grounds for recourse.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 08:45 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

we had one try this at our motocross track years ago

was an area we didn't want them in so put a sign up each end saying no bikes past this point and roped it off

he rode past it and fell off into a bush breaking his collarbone

we were dealing with a serious accident in the carpark at the time as some kid had jumped on an auto bike and ploughed into a trailer knocking him out

so we didn't notice him to start with until somone told us there was a bike in the bush

he tried suing us for loss of earning as he wasn't stopped from going past the signs
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Aceslock
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Aceslock wrote:

He was just asking if the insurance policy covers it. This is the reason we pay insurance........to cover 'accidents', not necessarily blaming someone for it.


First part yes - accidents. Second part is critical though. It is all about blame - from a purely legal standpoint. You buy a legal liability policy - not a 'well I think I owe him something for his hardship' policy.


Which i am sure OP understands now........ Wink

The point i was making is that a 'New Biker' (possibly) came to this forum for some advice. He asked in a nice friendly manner, said please and thank you etc.

If i was to speak to somebody in a nice friendly manner, i would be expected to be spoken to the same way back. Common courtesy Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aceslock wrote:
Which i am sure OP understands now........ Wink

Do you? Because it's not what you said.

The point I was making is that there are insurance policies that cover no-fault compensation. They're first party policies though: building and contents, income protection, PPI (have you been mis-sold...), or injury cover (although it's usually only for loss of eyes/limbs/head, not a hurted foot).

But that's very different to 3rd party public liability or professional indemnity cover. No blame = no claim = no basis for being covered, or paying out.
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