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Engine heat rising rapidly FIXED

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Paris2
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Engine heat rising rapidly FIXED Reply with quote

Firstly, I know Daytona's are famed for overheating Silence

However my bike seems to heat up very quickly when not moving, it was almost by 1 degree a second this morning. So once I had pulled off the motorway, sitting at the lights for 30 seconds and the fan was on Evil or Very Mad

The fan comes on at 104 as expected, but at that point it's fighting a losing battle and it never seems to decrease. More than once I have had to pull over once the temp had gone north of 120.

What do? I don't think it was always this bad.
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Last edited by Paris2 on 09:57 - 02 Jul 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
nimbA



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PostPosted: 13:43 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Re: Engine heat rising rapidly Reply with quote

Paris2 wrote:
What do?

Flush out the radiator and cooling jacket and renew the coolant.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^That's a good start.^^^

Other possibilities include:

- failed thermostat (stuck closed)
- failed water pump
- head gasket failure
- blocked radiator.

Doing the flush and replace that Rog mentioned is the first thing to try since it is easiest and eliminates one possibility. whilst you are in there you may also spot signs of other problems.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Re: Engine heat rising rapidly Reply with quote

Paris2 wrote:
Firstly, I know Daytona's are famed for overheating


/Thread.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnily enough, a bike mechanic told me never to buy one however attractive the price on Ebay, because he sees them a lot in his workshop.

With any luck, it's something minor. Try the basic things first. Your fan's coming on, so you can strike the thermostat, fan and fan switch from your list. Next, is the coolant circulating? The circulation of the coolant can be impeded by blockages (which could be anywhere, but tend to be in the radiator or filter). Start it up, wait until the engine gets hot, then put your hand on the radiator. Any major differences in temperature across its surface? If so, system overhaul time, with coolant flush upward through the system. No problem there? Visually inspect and if necessary blow out the coolant filter. Still not circulating? Check the pump is working properly (open the radiator cap and check that coolant is visibly flowing when the engine is running).

If all that checks out, flush the system as per Haynes, and replace all the coolant, taking special care to avoid airlocks. There's a bit of a technique to this, but you need to top it up at various engine temperatures, burping the air from the system and from all lines, and get the reservoir level right between min and max levels.

After this, there should be no reason for any overheating, unless you have a serious fault. If you still get overheating, check that it hasn't spat out its coolant from overflow and sucked in air. If that's happening, it's a whole new can of worms...
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Paris2
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Re: Engine heat rising rapidly Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Paris2 wrote:
Firstly, I know Daytona's are famed for overheating


/Thread.


Tut Tut
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Paris2
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help. I will do the recommended fault finding and go from there Very Happy
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do the easiest bits first.

Wash out the radiator External Matrix using Soap Powder to get rid of any bugs.

You can also test if you have circulation of coolant from the water pump.

To check for that find a plug you can remove from the water jacket and crack it open until you see coolant weeping out.
Start the engine and see if it effects the rate of weep.

You can do the same check by opening a hose clip too.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:

Your fan's coming on, so you can strike the thermostat, fan and fan switch from your list.


Really?

I'd have said the thermostatic valve would be one of the very first things I'd check given the symptoms.

Easy to test, suspend it in a pan of water and bring it to the boil, see if it opens.
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pudder
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:
Your fan's coming on, so you can strike the thermostat, fan and fan switch from your list.


Genuine question, how does this eliminate the thermostat?

Does the daytona thermostat have a sensor which controls the fan?
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P.
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Daytona 600 used to hit 120, 115 I got worried but it soon cooled. When stationary it was high. Just swap out dat coolant.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

By all means, check the thermostat as well. Or just try running it without a thermostat, and see if that improves matters.

The thermostat (also) flips the fan switch. He mentioned that the fan is working and it begins to operate, but that this doesn't cool the bike down. Naturally, this doesn't mean the thermostat is working correctly, but at least it's opening at a certain point sufficient to flip the switch. If the thermostat isn't kicking in at the right temperature, then you won't get sufficient coolant flow to the engine. The problem occurs when he's sitting at the traffic lights. It's at idling speed, i.e. when the thermostat doesn't need to open up the flow of coolant to the engine.

So, for the thermostat to be the cause of his woes, it would have to remain stuck shut as the bike gets hotter, until it reaches a point of no return, and when it eventually pops open, the free flow of water no longer has any effect. It's possible but it doesn't sound right to me. I would have thought he has a blockage or is short of coolant because of an airlock (perhaps caused by a leak in the system or something worse). But sure, test everything including thermostat.
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P.
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my basic knowledge... the thermostat will open around 60-70 degrees to let shit flow round. The RS125 I owned got to about 65 degrees, dropped sharply if you were riding where it suddenly opened and got cold, then gradually rose as you rode it.

It got removed in the end.

My cars thermostat got to about 70-80 and opened.

If you really wanna test, pull thermostat off and stick in a cup of kettle water, see if it opens.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:
The thermostat (also) flips the fan switch


Does it?
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 18:26 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought, do you have the OBD2 connection on yours? My Street was messed with to put the fan on at 95 rather than its 103... so you can amend a variety of shit on there.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:
Tawny wrote:
The thermostat (also) flips the fan switch


Does it?


Yes. Unless there's something very different about this make and model of bike, then the thermostat opening up with either make or break a circuit, and this will switch on the fan.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 18:38 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:
Yes. Unless there's something very different about this make and model of bike, then the thermostat opening up with either make or break a circuit, and this will switch on the fan.


Explain RS125 plz.

Explain most cars plz.

In fact, I run with no thermostat... fan not running all the time, only when temperature sensor at top of rad tells it to.

Laughing
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you just making this up?

The Daytona 600, like most other bikes, uses a coolant temperature sensor and relay to switch the fan on and off.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:
Are you just making this up?


If that's what you think, then I feel sorry for you. Think about it... if that's a likely explanation, then it means that someone is less likely to be making an honest mistake than making stuff up for no reason, because in a similar position, you yourself would be making stuff up...

I commented because I've had coolant troubles in the past myself, and have implemented the sort of troubleshooting I mentioned, and solved them. That doesn't make me infallible, it just makes me someone trying to help out someone who has a cooling problem (which I doubt will be down to the thermostat). I may have misunderstood how/what turns on the fan.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 18:55 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:
Matt B wrote:
Are you just making this up?


If that's what you think, then I feel sorry for you. Think about it... if that's a likely explanation, then it means that someone is less likely to be making an honest mistake than making stuff up for no reason, because in a similar position, you yourself would be making stuff up...

I commented because I've had coolant troubles in the past myself, and have implemented the sort of troubleshooting I mentioned, and solved them. That doesn't make me infallible, it just makes me someone trying to help out someone who has a cooling problem (which I doubt will be down to the thermostat). I may have misunderstood how/what turns on the fan.


You are spastic. HTH
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, the 600 thermostat is just a thermo-mechanical valve.

The later 675's incorporate some electronics in the housing that I guess is for temperature sensor or fan switch. Or something.



OP has a 600.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
You are spastic. HTH


Laughing Maybe you would like to make a different choice of words. GWS!
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tawny wrote:

Yes. Unless there's something very different about this make and model of bike, then the thermostat opening up with either make or break a circuit, and this will switch on the fan.


BING Congratulations! You win this week's award for the person who *sounds* like they know what they are talking about, but actually has no clue!

Your prize? The derision and condescension of your peers!
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 19:21 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, my TT600 used to regularly hit 120 in hot weather. But doing it in winter? Nah, there is something wrong. It's probably minor, but it shouldn't do that.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 14 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
BING Congratulations! You win this week's award for the person who *sounds* like they know what they are talking about, but actually has no clue!

Your prize? The derision and condescension of your peers!


Wow! I'm over the moon. I appreciate it. I didn't know I had any peers. Very Happy

Last time someone got a prize like that, a motorcyclist bled to death, unfortunately.

What happened was, there was an accident and a biker came off his bike. A couple of other motorists stopped to help. The biker said, "I think I broke my arm, can you take my helmet off please."
One of the motorists looked at him, saw he was bleeding (from his elbow), and said, "OK, but first let's staunch the bleeding."
The other said, "What! You idiot! You retard! You never take off a biker's helmet!"
Indignant, the other replied "Look who's talking, stupid old man who keeps having accidents and screwing up!"

The argument went back and forth. The biker bled to death.

True story. Thumbs Up
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