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Am building another CG based project...

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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 00:18 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Am building another CG based project... Reply with quote

After the last build:

https://s28.postimg.org/zcqzucbih/1233568_10151843181433485_865196705_n.jpg

https://s28.postimg.org/vuezxyamh/12063527_10153625824208485_1975376208278750408_n.jpg

I have been working on another one.

That means more stuff like this:

https://s28.postimg.org/8glymddvd/20170104_132610.jpg

Even more stuff like this:

https://s28.postimg.org/dcple2e0p/20161124_120647.jpg

https://s28.postimg.org/kh7en3la1/20161124_135431.jpg

And especially this, particularly this:

https://s23.postimg.org/emcpb2ayv/20161025_145233.jpg

https://s23.postimg.org/jma5j0glj/20170110_173117.jpg

https://s23.postimg.org/fr6rgfxfr/20170110_204706.jpg

If people are interested I will throw up a story and a full build thread. Shit is time consuming so if there no interest I shall not waste time.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 03:44 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interested
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Holdawayt
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested but the pics are showing up tiny on my screen. It might be because I'm stuck in the 90's and I'm using IE but I'm having to squint to see any detail.
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, you should be able to click them and they should blow up for you.

Okey dokey I'll get some words together.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also interested but it would be good if you could include some information on any useful techniques to help others since the CG is quite popular for rebuilds. Most folk seem to gloss over how they achieve things, it's always nice to have that extra detail if you have the time!

What's the ultimate intention with this one?
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a problem. Will cover stuff like how to get the flatted ally cooling fins and a hard wearing finish with no laquer from a rattle can. The key to a lot of this stuff is to do it on a budget you need to re use as much stock gear as possible.

Intention with this bike is a vintage flat tracker/enduro build. These bikes are great for re-creating British bikes style without the reliability woes that come with such a Motorcycle, or the presently insane costs.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interested, PUT UP PICS AND THREAD NOW!
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything interesting engine wise going on with this one?

I ask as though I can appreciate some nicely done craft and engineering in making a neat and tidy café or bobber look, it's all quite samey now with CG's, and certainly the cafe racer look and style has been done to its logical conclusion IMO.

We were denied seeing a turbo CG in project death weapon, and even the RM250 engine never made it to a finished road legal bike AFAIK?
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Anything interesting engine wise going on with this one?

I ask as though I can appreciate some nicely done craft and engineering in making a neat and tidy café or bobber look, it's all quite samey now with CG's, and certainly the cafe racer look and style has been done to its logical conclusion IMO.

We were denied seeing a turbo CG in project death weapon, and even the RM250 engine never made it to a finished road legal bike AFAIK?


Not with this one. Most of the 'uniqueness' with this one will become obvious when I post the story/thread. Otherwise the motor will remain stock other than using a Molk 26mm carb and TL125 pipe. The biggest problem with the CG (or other such based motors) motor is oil feed and circulation, hence why Chris' turbo death weapon never really launched.

To be honest, there is a huge market for these builds as many do not have the time, space or inclination to build such a thing. Many would like a unique bike but don't know how to go about it. The fact it has 10hp isn't such an issue when it will snap necks from 50 paces. Touches such as frame hidden looms, frame mods, smoothed welds, steering dampers, custom built guards and sidepanels will always outweigh the need for another 5 hp. It is what it is.

One of the things that has not been properly utilised yet is the CG frame's ability to hold larger twin motors. I have procured a twin motor to fit in my build after this one, should give reasonable stomp!
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, it is time.

Story goes, there is a bike show on the Isle of Wight every September. Numerous dealers representing various marques attend and attempt to sell their wares. A gentleman who is a sales manager at one such dealer spies me riding in on my turbo Bandit and eventually we get talking about custom bikes. I show a few pictures and he clocks the CG cafe racer build I did, is very into it. Bearing in mind the chap has access to everything from cutting edge sportsbikes to retro roadsters as available options I consider this a huge compliment. We exchange numbers and I go away with the possibility of a commission build looming, churning it over in my head. Building at an advanced pace with a 50hr a week job is something I hadn't considered before.

2 months pass, I eventually pick up his business card and we talk about a bike, one that I had already, but needs a vast amount of work to get to spec. He initially agrees to buy it on completion, however I felt that really he needed to specify what he was after to feel that it was 'his' on completion. The initial concept was set, a flatracker styled vintage build that he could ride ten miles to work every day and take off road to follow his lad on on his PW50 Yam at the weekends on some green lanes. The chap was paying for it, He was a genuinely nice bloke, and I got to do what I love doing, cranking out a custom motorcycle with some boutique touches.

Base bike was a CG125 'W' Turkish model. These bikes are perfect for an old style build, a reliable 12v CDI ignition with a pure kickstart and drum brakes. The only real issue is the styling is bizzarely modern, swooping lines and tank means every single bit has to go in the bin and begun from scratch. Noting this, the budget is set and the bike has to be built for a price in around 5 months. This may seem like a long time, but in reality it is a microscopic blot on a time scale stretching millions of miles. The previous build took 3 years from start to finish, there were times of lust, anger, disillusionment, indifference, drive and failure but the result had been worth it. Brutal late nights are called for, I work in a supermarket with shifts between 6 in the morning and 9 at night so often I find myself in an unheated, quasi lit barn unit at 2 in the morning in the depths of winter staring a 10 hour shift in the face on 2-3 hours of kip. I could not lose focus on this one, the bike couldn't sit in the corner for months at a time, finish deteriorating as the the cold damp rose through the porous floor and into the bones of the ever evolving skeleton of the bike. Truth is I have lost faith in working for a wage. I would rather pursue my dreams and be poor than give my soul to a 50 hour grind that offers a regular wage but a colossal demand on both time and attention.

To put it simply, shit has got real and I am relying on my friends, who are machinists, painters, electritions and professional mechanics to make it happen. All I can do is carry the vision and do what I can do to get this bike done, whether that be spending 36 hours awake to get the motor prepped and painted to a level a professional custom shop would be happy with or 10 hours on making a set of classic british trials pegs weld to a CG footbar that was only ever intended to have a set of foot rubbers over the basic steel bar... This will happen.
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tank:

The standard CG 'W' tank is a swoopy mess, with integrated body panels and the sort of side profile that a Beluga whale would be more than happy with. This is useless for what we are after, so modifications are in order.

A BR-K tank is sourced, which has a nice square profile to match the look I am after. Only issue with this tank is that the length of the tank is dramatically shorter than the standard by roughly 2 inches. They have the same single mounting hole so plans are drawn up and the next thing you know the frame is at my mate's shop having the stock tank mount cut out and the bracket modified to sit a couple of inches further up the frame.

https://s29.postimg.org/k8jvrgztz/20170104_132504.jpg

https://s23.postimg.org/eawuh9gkr/20170104_132610.jpg

This naturally works out spot on. But what of the tank itself?

PS you may be able to tell that the frame has been dramatically modified in these pics, the rest will follow...
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 11 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tank:

https://s23.postimg.org/8arrw6h3f/20161124_120647.jpg

So the tank itself, obtained by ebay watching, is a red BR-K model n good condition. The shape is good but we need to do away with the stock paint scheme and get it sorted for our project fitment.

A Bosch linishing wheel with a grey wheel attachment takes away the main paint finish, the trick here is not to go too mad. Any excessive pressure eats into the steel and means more polishing to retain the smooth finish we are after.

https://s29.postimg.org/qn26o8cpj/20161124_120656.jpg

The completed tank looks a little like this:

https://s24.postimg.org/tkvkhss11/20161124_135431.jpg

There is an application of classic Honda decals and some laquer to be applied but this makes the bike look very special.
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 01:36 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine:

The engine is a standard CG125 lump producing anything as much as 10hp at the crank. Terrifying sports performance all round. These engines are bullet proof, whereas Honda updated a lot of their other small bikes to use the SOHC design, the popularity of these bikes in markets where maintenance was often none existent meant the OHV was a better choice. The motors can often be run out of oil, heat seized, un-seized and continue merrily working. An OHC motor would suffer severe top end damage before the motor pinched. The motor is also pretty light, I have often carried the engines from these around in backpacks on other bikes from place to place!

The aim was to get a none-perfect, but presentable home build quality engine. Aiming for a vintage look with some specific requirements. The engine itself should be satin black with flatted back cooling fins. The cases should be bare but not polished heavily, a matte sheen would be perfect. Any other little touches would be a bonus. Let us take a look at the motor:

https://s30.postimg.org/6ojz3idxt/20161025_145233.jpg

Bit of work then... Laughing

The motor is 16 years old and has seen 45,000 miles, but was running fine before I pulled the bike apart. A brief mechanical check:

https://s24.postimg.org/45ceut31h/20161115_095346.jpg
(Yes, you can hold a small motor like this in a vice!)

https://s23.postimg.org/riiokuhor/20161115_100321.jpg
Gauze oil filter came out nice and clean.

https://s23.postimg.org/msnx2me4r/20161115_100750.jpg
Check the valve clearances. Set to TDC, check they move but not excessively. This is enough on a CG haha.

https://s28.postimg.org/k0u69n3e5/20161115_102739.jpg
Off with the covers! Note the penny in the primary drive, this is a good way of locking the motor up without damaging the teeth on the gears. The material of the coin is softer than the gears, so if the pressure gets too great the coin will pass through the gears and come out the other side looking more interesting lol.

https://s30.postimg.org/aq33d3m69/20161115_103900.jpg
This enables us to separate the cases of the centrifugal (or centripetal if you are a pedant) oil filter, yes, the one most people do not realize a CG has... These work by spinning with the motor and are fed by a central oil galley. As the oil enters the chamber, it is spun to the outside and any sediment/carbon present is left behind on the edge of the case by the less viscous oil as it exits. This one has never been emptied, evidenced by the 'factory tight' torque on the delicate screws holding the two halves together.

https://s24.postimg.org/ath7vm79x/20161115_105007.jpg
Much better!

https://s29.postimg.org/x7d58eqef/20161115_111052.jpg
Last but not least, need to release the seized clutch arm on the casing. These are a ballache to do as they are held in place by a spring, but removing the split pin at the bottom of the mechanism allows just enough up/down movement to break the corrosion and start feeding penetrating oil down the neck. A short while later, having repeated the process a few times we have a nice free arm.

https://s23.postimg.org/sbbi9acor/20161115_115057.jpg
Quick degrease and we are about ready to prep for painting.

NEXT!
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 02:25 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Painting the motor took around 10 hours. Prep is important, but is easier than might be thought.

https://s29.postimg.org/r4xsherpz/20161129_175249.jpg
The cases were covered in flaky paint, so I had them vapour blasted by a unit neighbour who just happens to have the machine Razz This leaves a nice clean finish but it is devoid of any shine whatsoever.

https://s30.postimg.org/u9vc0152p/20170110_155353.jpg
Set about the motor block with a wire brush, taking off any corrosion and keying any paint I wanted to stay in place. Started working on the fins, they are the most time consuming thing to do.

https://s27.postimg.org/6ek4wv9tf/20170110_162524.jpg
The methodology with the fins was to use a file to take them back to flat. As the engine was never supposed to have any detail in this area, the fins are uneven and have casting marks that have to be taken back. This takes a good long while. To prevent boredom setting in I was working on the cases every now and then, working a brushed shine into them using sandpaper and auto-sol.

https://s29.postimg.org/kypn6l32v/20170110_165416.jpg
It is very difficult to get a picture of anything shiny in the unit, so I switched the lights off, opened the door and let the cases catch the last of the daylight. You can see they have a nice, deep shine that isn't too reflective but keeps a lot of character in the metal. The fins are nearly finished at this point. Running around their faces with a wire wheel in a drill takes out the worst of the gouges from the file, we will use the paint like a high build primer to gauge when the faces are flat.

https://s23.postimg.org/g1flrfhgr/20170110_173117.jpg
With the motor carefully masked off (take your time doing this) the first coat of black goes on. I find it easier to leave a motor together when painting, the risk of getting paint on mating surfaces is eliminated and when masked well enough it is nearly impossible to get paint somewhere you shouldn't.

https://s27.postimg.org/7ikumhlc3/20170110_185636.jpg
I then moved the engine into the office part of the unit, in which I had a good size fan heater running. It would plunge in temperature shortly, applying three further coats of paint and allowing enough time to tack dry took another couple of hours, in which time I did some detailing...

https://s24.postimg.org/t3qlqpj79/20170110_191135.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/3kcdzhljp/20170110_191946.jpg

https://s24.postimg.org/mdy6whjrp/20170110_195343.jpg
Lettering painted in, rocker cover fin troughs painted, it was time to find the fins again. I did this by running fine sandpaper down the edges of the fins, it takes a good long time but I gradually find more and more of them. Using the paint as primer, when I have eliminated the paint totally from a fin edge, I know it is smooth. Roughly another hour and a half disappears doing this. Care is key, slipping and dragging the paper over the not-quite-hardened-yet paint elsewhere would be a time consuming repair.

https://s30.postimg.org/3vut8i3w1/20170110_203054.jpg
The other side, picking out the proud joining fins under the cooling fins. Am just about finished now.

https://s29.postimg.org/gto246rbb/20170110_204800.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/mf7cs2w7p/20170110_204706.jpg
The completed motor. The cases need a tiny bit more work but I am happy about how this came out. Pictured in these image are the TL125 Sammy miller high level header and a brand new 26mm Molk carb.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did you paint with?
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just some tough Simoniz satin black. You only need high temp on an exhaust.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

lilredmachine wrote:
Just some tough Simoniz satin black. You only need high temp on an exhaust.


How long does it tend to last when on the road? I've not used the Simoniz stuff but haven't had great results from a can previously (previously etch primer, paint and lacquer although I'm not entirely sure the paint and lacquer were fully compatible) and found it too easy to remove.

I've still not settled on a solution for my CX500 which is currently bare aluminium.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've certainly made a very pretty job of that engine! Thumbs Up

The last CG I worked on years ago, we just wire brushed the cylinder to clean it up, and we used Simoniz wheel silver on the valve cover, and engine cases, even the enclosed chain guard too. It went on well and is surprisingly tough IMO.

You don't get any gloss look to it, but if you just want a hard wearing silver finish I'd use it again, that is if you can still buy it these days?

My CG motor didn't look all pretty and shiny like yours though.

Im looking forward to your twin cylinder engined bike build as that sounds pretty cool, and theres lots of ways you can route twin pipes for looks too.

I wonder if a late OHC XLR engine would fit in a CG frame though? Can you not get 150cc Chinese big bore kits for the OHC lump?
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kgm
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:


There was a guy on the CG facebook group that has done so, several times I believe.

I wonder if a late OHC XLR engine would fit in a CG frame though?
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of Honda twins use the same bottom mounts as a CG, the best of which is probably the CD200 twin. The chinese clones will go straight in, including the 200 that Chris used for his turbo project.

The kind of builds i do though, it's a big nono to have a gurt leccy start motor hanging out the side on something that is modified to look like it is from the 60s.
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Last edited by lilredmachine on 18:50 - 14 Jan 2017; edited 1 time in total
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

meggark wrote:
lilredmachine wrote:
Just some tough Simoniz satin black. You only need high temp on an exhaust.


How long does it tend to last when on the road? I've not used the Simoniz stuff but haven't had great results from a can previously (previously etch primer, paint and lacquer although I'm not entirely sure the paint and lacquer were fully compatible) and found it too easy to remove.

I've still not settled on a solution for my CX500 which is currently bare aluminium.


Would suggest you went overly complex with the paint. Remember the paint only sticks as well as the bottom layer, regardless off how many different types of stuff you use. It is also a lot easier to repair any damage you do if you know you just need to mask off and blow back in from one can, or even spray in the cap to dab on with a brush in small areas.

The simoniz engine enamel is brilliant, and the next thing i will cover is the yokes, which are painted in the silver version of this paint.
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 22 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://s7.postimg.org/o57qd96sr/20161202_185232.jpg

https://s14.postimg.org/nobrrce75/20170106_113634.jpg

https://s16.postimg.org/5r3i0qvol/20170106_122121.jpg

Any questions?

https://s17.postimg.org/bbhcqxukf/20170221_103154.jpg

https://s13.postimg.org/6e36u46uv/20170221_141556.jpg

https://s17.postimg.org/af0uffykv/20170221_144258.jpg

https://s15.postimg.org/4qaifw9bf/20170221_150018.jpg

https://s14.postimg.org/3wkg96qrl/20170221_163912.jpg

https://s28.postimg.org/egd2a0gkt/20170221_171043.jpg
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speedingmotor...
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 11 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for sharing your rebuild info, photos, and specifics!

i am working on making a 79 cg into a brat tracker or something like that. does the tl 125 exhaust fit right onto the cg's engine?
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speedingmotor...
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 11 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for sharing your rebuild info, photos, and specifics!

i am working on making a 79 cg into a brat tracker or something like that. does the tl 125 exhaust fit right onto the cg's engine?
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 18 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedingmotorcycle wrote:
thanks for sharing your rebuild info, photos, and specifics!

i am working on making a 79 cg into a brat tracker or something like that. does the tl 125 exhaust fit right onto the cg's engine?


Pretty much! You might want to wrap the header where it passes the carb as it has a habit of boiling the fuel in the carb bowl after extended use.
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