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Riding on the right for the first time

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maurice
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 18 Jun 2006    Post subject: Riding on the right for the first time Reply with quote

This is something a fair amount of riders feel apprehensive about, perhaps even putting them off riding abroad, yet ironically is not as tricky as it is sometimes made out to be. Generally you will adapt pretty quick, and all but the more complex city lane systems will pose no challenge.

As tempting as it may be, try to resist the urge to show the French what it sounds like to bounce off the limiter in the first four gears as you depart the ferry. Upon leaving the port in Calais you’ll be directed straight onto a dual carriageway which takes you toward the Calais town-centre. Now is a good time to get used to the lanes having opposite directions and acclimatise yourself to the French style of road signs.

Shortly you’ll have some options, you can either start blasting down the paying autoroutes South (marked on signs as ‘peage’), or exit the dual carriageway and get those first awkward miles on normal roads over with. I’d recommend the latter, as around Calais the French will be well used to British driving antics and half expecting it.

French roundabouts are pretty much identical to ours apart from the obvious change in direction, and a VERY small number still conform to the ‘priority a droite’ rule (priority to the right). When this is in force, cars entering the roundabout have priority over cars already on the roundabout. Most roundabouts will have a sign displaying “n’avez prioritie a droite” (no priority to the right). I’ve only ever seen one of these sadistic creations in a few thousand miles of riding so don’t worry unduly, you just need to be aware they do exist.

Your first couple roundabouts will feel very odd and even a bit wrong, your body will likely be screaming out for you to take it clockwise but you must resist Wink. After that the next tricky thing is the old left hand turn. UK driving habits usually include turning left after only looking right, without thoroughly checking the left hand direction first. As you’re crossing over a lane in Europe this check is critical, the easiest one to miss and worst mistake to make. At least to start with, forget about riding fast through complicated foreign road systems and triple check every manoeuvre you make, save it for the twisties.

The other common locations for relapsing into driving on the left are just after you’ve stopped i.e. turning left out of a petrol station, and car parks.

To navigate efficiently in rural France you will need to know the name of the town that is next on your route. Road numbers are not given much if at all priority on road signs. Green signs point out the A road style routes, Blue ones direct you towards the autoroute. "Toutes Directions" is equivalent to 'all though routes' in the UK. If you come to a junction and find there is only a blue sign for the town you are heading and no green sign, the best bet can be to follow the direction of the blue sign as that route often will then have green signs for your destination. I take no responsibility for navigational errors this way, but it seems to work out most of the time.

Bikers don’t nod in France, they take their left hand off the bars and hold it up vertically as a wave. Unlike Britain 99% of all riders do it, even cruiser riders! Small trail bikes and 50’s take the cruiser rider’s place as the enemies that don’t respond. It’s also customary to waggle your foot at riders you overtake on both the motorway and normal roads.

French drivers are a lot more bike-friendly than the standard British driver. Most will actively pull over to the right in order to give you enough space to dart through. Again it’s customary to waggle your right foot at them to say ‘thanks’ as you pass.

Autoroutes are a higher standard version of our motorways, some sections (particularly around ports and cities) are free, the majority you have to pay for. This is done by issuing you a ticket as you enter, then calculating the distance you’ve travelled as you leave. As you roll up the toll paying booths you’ll notice there are numerous types, just like the M4/M48 bridges, Dartford etc. Always go to a manned booth. Usually British debit/credit cards are dubious at best in France so have some smallish notes/change somewhere handy to pay.

Try not to loose your ticket, technically you have to pay a high penalty fare then go through a bureaucratic process to reclaim your money at a later date. In reality the French are pretty relaxed and will just ask where you came from, or charge you the same as your mate, as I found when I lost one. On some autoroutes, such as the one lining the French South coast, tickets aren’t used and you’re just expected to pop a few euros into a machine every 20km or so.

You can see where the toll money has been spent in the numerous parks for rest breaks (aires) every few km along the autoroute. Services with petrol stations can be few and far between however, there’s known to be gaps of over 30 miles between them – a stretch for any reserve tank. If a services come up and you have less than 25 mile in your main tank play it safe and top up. On the subject, European services prices don’t tend to be the usual British rip-off, prices and fresh food can be quite reasonable.

European motorway discipline tends to be far stricter than the UK. Often with good reason too – in France it is illegal to stay out in an overtaking lane if you are not overtaking at that time. Also in France it is commonly adhered to etiquette to leave your left-hand indicator on if you’re behind someone in an overtaking lane whose also overtaking, if you want to go faster. This isn’t considered rude/aggressive as it might be in the UK. Sometimes even the car in front will pull over to the right side of the lane to give you a couple feet to squeeze between it and the barrier.

Speeding depends on the country a lot and where you are in it. There’s been quite a few reports of late of French police clamping down on speeding in the North, particularly near the ports. On the spot fine, you may be taken to cash point to draw money out to pay. Other countries such as Austria have had the audacity to install credit/debit card machines in the back of their traffic cars. As of the moment, you can’t be done by foreign speed cameras, although the DVLA are working to change this. The rumours of French police timing you between toll booths may have a little truth to them, some semi-reliable sources have reported it happening on the South coast. It does seem to be extremely rare, if at all though.
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Keen
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PostPosted: 08:20 - 27 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
French roundabouts are pretty much identical to ours apart from the obvious change in direction, and a VERY small number still conform to the ‘priority a droite’ rule (priority to the right).


the one thing I would add is that in my experience, even though the priority to the right rule is mostly no longer in force, alot of french drivers, especially older ones, tend to drive as if it is! don't be surprised to find drivers pull out right in front of you at roundabouts or junctions expecting you to brake for them.

The whole french style of driving is like this IMO, people do things that would be considered reckless in the UK, relying on other drivers to see them and react accordingly.
Also, at least in the south, don't assume that because the light is green you're safe to go- and I'm not kidding. People treat red lights as optional. My girlfriend's car got written off because of some french bitch running a red and the amount of times I've seen others do it is frightening. Just be aware Thumbs Up
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popwud
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 30 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a point to be aware of and that is... the french always used to have to give way to the right...which meant that on a straight road you had to slow down for a road on your right in case a vehicle popped out of it....especially through towns and villages...gradually they have taken our road priorities but not sure if it is universal over there yet.
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Rumpelstiltsk...
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 09 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

A recent trip to one of the greek islands found us Hiring a couple of bikes to catch the scenery so to speak.
We adapted to riding on the 'Wrong' side of the road straight away,surprisingly.
Even in the packed and congested towns and cities,where its almost every man for himself and chaos is the order of the day, We found that junctions and roundabouts although packed,sorted themselves out.
It looked a damn mess,but not a single scrape or scratch.
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Jack Black
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 27 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

popwud wrote:
There is a point to be aware of and that is... the french always used to have to give way to the right...which meant that on a straight road you had to slow down for a road on your right in case a vehicle popped out of it....especially through towns and villages...gradually they have taken our road priorities but not sure if it is universal over there yet.


This still is here in Belgium. You have to give away to right. But when right stops you don't have to anymore. Or when a bord says you don't have to
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krebsy
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PostPosted: 09:06 - 13 Apr 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

maurice wrote:
French roundabouts are pretty much identical to ours apart from the obvious change in direction, and a VERY small number still conform to the ‘priority a droite’ rule (priority to the right).


That rule still causes accidents. I was heading over to Belgium with Mrs. K. and following a Britis car along the motorway eastwards and some stupid french woman in a van pulled out from the sliproad and right over into the left lane forcing the car in front to slam on and they had to dive onto the (luckily) wide grass central reservation. It was a very near miss...

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 03 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go to Germany, remember the autobans have no speed limit. Now this might sound good fun (and it is Very Happy ) but when you are pulling out to overtake you have to consider that tiny speck in your mirror might be doing 120 mph and it's on you like a flash. Make sure you have lots of room between you and any car coming up behind. Quite frightneing to have a big merc up your ass at that sort of speed
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 03 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also be aware that a significant number of French drivers just drive wherever they want to with no regard for either road markings or right of way.

You will easily recognise them because they will be driving a car that looks like its body panels have been attacked by a gorilla with a lumphammer in each hand.

I have personally witnessed a driver in France deliberately shunt another (parked) car backwards when they were trying to squeeze into a parking space that was too small for them. I say deliberately because she did it one then did it again when it hadn't moved far enough the first time.

As I say, the dents are a big giveaway that you are dealing with one of these drivers, just give them loads of room.

Oh, here's a picture of one that did the whole 'pulling onto a roundabout in front of someone without even looking' thing. Unfortunately for her, it was my Brother and his mates in a long wheelbase LDV van full of booze she pulled in front of. Laughing
http://moblog.co.uk/blogs/12422/moblog_332bc17174672.jpg
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 03 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

So whats the deal? How are you supposed to know in France if a roundabout is of one type or the other?
Or is it a case of certain drivers still drive by one set of rules and others drive my the other rules?
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maurice
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 03 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some sign explanations here http://www.bwam.org.uk/articles/in_france.php.

If the roundabout is a priority to the right (in French "prioritie a droite") I think there's a sign saying "prioritie a droite".

Don't get too worried about it, I've never had a problem and I don't pay much attention to the funny road signs.

The parking shunt thing isn't exclusively French; seen it performed in Bristol.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 03 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

maurice wrote:

The parking shunt thing isn't exclusively French; seen it performed in Bristol.


Ah, but without the Gallic aplomb and tossing of hair I'm sure.
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Gixajane
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 10 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that advice Polarbear I'm going to Germany in June this year,

I went to France last year and found the riding experience a pleasant suprise, drivers in France are very curtious to bike riders they move over for you no spiteful car drivers closing in on you like they do purposely here, as soon as I got back to the UK travelling up the M1 it started ' if I cant move my car your not getting through on a bike either' Evil or Very Mad nasty spiteful sh-ts.
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barnhatter
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 09 May 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put a label on my fork yoke
"KEEP RIGHT" to remind me, It is when you lose a bit of concentration that you make mistakes.
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magpiemale
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 14 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy as pie...Signs are the same as in england with some a little diffrent but you can work it out.Hard part was changing my digital speedo to kpm everything else was easy.
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John933
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PostPosted: 02:03 - 13 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be a good idea ... And I've used it ... Is to get a small pice of yellow duster ... Punch a hole in it and the undo one of the fairing bolt, then bolt the duster to the fairing on the right hand side ... As it is flapping around in the wind you can't but help notice it ... It's telling you that the duster must be on the curb side ... You could come out of some where and start rideing on the left and not notice it ... That duster will tell you with in second's that you are in danger ... Could save your life ...
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 13 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did 3,000 miles driving on the right and still managed to forget myself.

We were looking for a camping spot at the side of the road and I had u-turned to go back a few hundred yards to check a spot that I thought looked promising.

As soon as I was turned, I proceeded to fly down the road riding on the left in the dark. Apparently my mates were shouting after me but I never heard them. I was even staring at headlights in the distance, my tired brain trying to work out why something didn't feel right.

Luckily it clicked and I moved over, but it shows that it can still happen if you don't pay attention and the roads are mostly empty.

Oddly enough, when I hit British soil again, I kept trying to go round the port's roundabouts the wrong way as if I was still abroad.
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vcrmoss
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 09 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im from the continent myself (currently studying in the UK).This topic reminds me how my CBT instructor was getting mad with me for messing up left and right turns exercise when I got into the wrong lane Laughing I had to reassure him it was only due to silly cones that confused me rather than not knowing which side of the "road" to use Rolling Eyes All in all cant wait for the day I will embark on a longer ride through Europe
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Crawford
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 30 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've driven on the right side of the road in the UK before after a lengthy GTA IV session....

Took me longer than it should have to realise that the oncoming lorry wasn't on the wrong side.
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Grubby
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 11 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
If you go to Germany, remember the autobans have no speed limit. Now this might sound good fun (and it is Very Happy ) but when you are pulling out to overtake you have to consider that tiny speck in your mirror might be doing 120 mph and it's on you like a flash. Make sure you have lots of room between you and any car coming up behind. Quite frightneing to have a big merc up your ass at that sort of speed


Although there are a number of autobahns that have no uper limit as you say there is a "Common sense" set of rules that the Polizei expect from motorists. i.e.
If it's raining don't go at 190 MPH, they'll nick you for dangerous driving.
Don't run up other driver's arses flashing your lights at 140 MPH+. It's seen as aggressive driving & they really don't like that.
Don't cut throught traffic travelling at 70MPH by creating your own lane between the traffic. Again this seen as aggressive driving.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 17 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am off to France, first time I've ridden abroad, on Saturday. Very Happy
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Grazoid
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 19 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

U turns are the biggest danger... keep doing this myself!

I have spent many miles travelling through Europe on a bike and still do a "leftie" at least once a trip... always after doing a U-Turn.
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 08:51 - 23 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember if doing a u-turn in euro, if there is a solid white line you don't cross it, not out of a junction, to do a u-turn, get to petrol station or layby...never, just don't cross solid white lines.

They are more anal about white lines in euro than over here, at least you can cross them here to get places or to pass slow vehicles.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 25 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to France and back in one piece Very Happy though I did get a pain in the neck from looking over a different shoulder more often than I usually do,
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621andy
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PostPosted: 08:27 - 11 Jun 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good info on here!

I live in Germany, but travel extensively all over Europe, and have discovered various odd rules over the years.

The 'priorité a droite' also applies in Germany, but mainly in towns. If there's a yellow diamond sign on a post alonside the road, then you have the right of way, BUT if there's no diamond, then people entering from the right have 'vorfahrt' ie; right of way. You find this mainly in residential areas, but you can suddenly find yourself in this situation anywhere where they want to artifically slow the traffic.
What actually happens is that people who know the roads drive like the clappers between junctions, then slam on the anchors just before and crawl past just in case someone comes shooting out.
This process is called 'Rechts vor Links'

German autobahns are of increasingly bad quality and the old myth of being able to welly it on all of 'em is becoming almost impossible on many. The condition of the surface is often bad, many are still only 2 lane, and the sheer volume of traffic prevents real high speed travel. You might find a stretch of 5-10km clear, then there'll be the inevitable roadworks or traffic jam(usually caused by a Hungarian truck overtaking ilegally, at 0,5km/h faster than the truck in front of him!)

The French roundabouts have been mentioned above. Most are normal but there are still one or two of the 'old' style around.

Speed cameras; In France there's usually big signs warning of them,and unlike in the UK, 99% of the time there WILL be a camera thereabouts, but in Germany and Switzerland they blend into the scenery and are very hard to see. In towns, assume there'll be unmarked radar cars everywhere in D. If you speak German, listen to the local radio stations as they often tip off people about where they are and what type/colour of car to look out for! On a bike, you're fairly safe as they flash from the front, but often they'll have a car/bike parked up ready to dish out instant trouble...
A word about Switzerland; If you're caught, the fine will double for every 5km/h you're over the limit!! The Swiss usually won't warn you of a speed trap or control ahead as they are very law abiding and see it as your fault if you get caught!

In France and Germany, the 'Douaniers' or 'Zoll' chappies will often stop you before or after a border crossing. This can be several km either side rather than on the border itself, to try and catch people out. Be polite, and have your paperwork in order. They're more interested in smuggling etc than speeding/general traffic regs, but don't wind 'em up!
In France, Gendarmes controls are increasingly common. Usually near roundabouts, but they can pop up anywhere. They ARE interested in traffic regs/paperwork etc and will want to see everything, and very likely breathalise you too(They often appear after the Frenchie lunch break!)- Look out for drivers flashing their lights! On the spot fines are usual and they won't accept cards. Be also aware that some UK cards won't work in French bank machines!

Fuel; Garages are few and far between on rural roads, and often shut for lunch and close early evening. Most have automatic pumps which work with FRENCH credit cards. Supermarket fuel stations are often much cheaper but often have strange opening hours. Autoroutes are usually reasonably well served with service stations, but occasionally there can be a batch of them with no fuel whatsoever for several 100kms.- usually cos someone's gone on strike! The basic rule is to refuel EVERY chance you have. Sundays are especially problematic as even though the supermarkets may be open, the garage bit probably won't be...

Belgium used to have awful motorway road surfaces, but they're slowly being improved...and being paid for with many speed cameras. Some flash from behind, some from in front...
Same goes for Holland, which also suffers from some of the worst driving stlyles you'll meet anywhere in Europe(and that includes the Paris Peripherique and Italy!). For a country of the most friendly people, they turn into the worst people behind the wheel of a car! They'll cut you up and try to run you off the road as soon as look at you(which they often don't!)
Luxembourg; Only been through it once or twice, but they do have duty free fags and fuel!

I'm currently in Turkey, which also has some horrendous drivers, and after the recent storms, some huge potholes in even main roads! Police/Jandarma are often about and speed traps are common, as are roadside paper checks. The actual standard of your vehicle/bike probably won't bother them as long as your paperwork is correct..bald tyres, and non working lights are normal. Cars coming round corners on back roads on the wrong side of the road is also to be expected.

Oh, and the driving on the wrong side of the road- easy enough really, just watch it when the road is empty or when you're tired; I've done it a few times myself Embarassed

Bloody hell that's a long post! I'll stop rambling now I think...
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